John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).

[JamOn]

Exactly but Calvinists with their election are saying He didn't die for all..and even if He did , He didn't allow all to believe on Him. Woah.. Woah!

And John Calvin started the stuff because he was mad the Catholics kicked him out in a nut shell.

 

[Amorette]

and by enter i mean... enter HEAVEN ...that it is better that the hindus and muslims with simple faith in Christ enter heaven than such of us..

 

[Amorette]

Show me from greek , latin , spanish or Japanese the translation of hate...when the Bible says Jacob i have loved but Esau I have hated.
Notice there are other places where the term 'hate' is used in the New Testament , even saying - whoever comes to the Lord and does not hate their life, their family etc...' and again later you will see something like this 'LOVE your wives'...
Can u see that there needs to be an adjustsment of understanding so that the above does not look like a contradiction?

 

[Amorette]

I am not a scholar but I have read the Bible and I have had my doubts and I hate to see how you portray God to be. It seems like a drug addict is lost when he denies Christ at a church because they failed to bring Christ in a better way to him and thus he feels doomed as though destined (predestination) to.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hello, Nehemiah6, i hope your doing well, hang on a second......are you condemning all Calvinists to eternal hell? surely you have more fear of God in you......... as Calvinist and Arminians believe on the essentials.

I am simply quoting what is in Scripture, which means that Calvinists should take that passage in Galatians very seriously, ask themselves whether or not they have a false gospel

Sorry but Galatians 1:8 is talking about people who believe and are preaching that your saved through works! and not grace.

Paul says *ANY OTHER GOSPEL* twice (verses 8 & 9). Which is generic for all false gospels. While Galatians is about the false gospel of salvation through faith in Christ + strict Torah observance, this passage (vv 6-12) covers all false gospels, even those which may be presented by an angel (e.g. Mormonism).

Why is Calvinism a false gospel?

1. It denies that Christ died for the sins of the whole world (all humanity)

2. It denies that God offers salvation to all humanity.

3. It distorts the Gospel of Grace and substitutes a gospel of sovereignty.

4. It denies that men can and do resist the grace of God.

5. It denies the power of the true Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit in bringing sinners to salvation, and claims that the unsaved are regenerated BEFORE they believe.

6. It denies that when the Gospel is preached men will either obey or disobey the Gospel.

 

[Amorette]

The 6th point Nehemiah , i believe they believe this - that when the Gospel is preached then only men who are elected will believe and men who are not elected will not believe.

 

[Amorette]

then why am i here to preach the Gospel when the elect will ultimately believe no matter what..what is my purpose in life...? What kind of thinking is this...where is this coming from? God's heart is at question here...God's heart. do you see it..?

 

[Flint321]

then why am i here to preach the Gospel when the elect will ultimately believe no matter what..what is my purpose in life...? What kind of thinking is this...where is this coming from? God's heart is at question here...God's heart. do you see it..?

Amorette, the truth is, you preach the gospel and God saves people as He wills through it, because Salvation is not a work of Man but a work of God.

Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (Salvation doesn't depend on Man's Will)

As in, God saves people through the gospel, also if God didn't elect anyone for salvation, then no one would be saved, because no one by nature desires God in truth, everyone by nature is evil and hates God....... this is the real defintion of sin: that everyone in Adam is a God hater and under the wrath of God. (the sinner is an object of God's wrath)

Romans 3:9-10-11
What then? Are we Jews[a] any better off?[b] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.

Also here is verse on the Hatred of God from the OT:

Psalm 5:5
4 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
5 The boastful shall not stand before your eyes;
you hate all evildoers.
6 You destroy those who speak lies;
the Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

God is a kind God, but he has saving love only for some, these are the people that believe, they believe because that is a manifestation of Sovereign Love for them.

This is how its always been, God's has always been a choosing God in OT and NT.

 

[Flint321]

 

[Flint321]

Also here is a good sermon on understanding election:

 

[JamOn]

interesting John Calvin was a humanist lawyer as well, i wonder rather any of his views with humanism was shared in his religious views.

 

[Nehemiah6]

then why am i here to preach the Gospel when the elect will ultimately believe no matter what..what is my purpose in life...? What kind of thinking is this...where is this coming from? God's heart is at question here...God's heart. do you see it..?

Every perversion of the Gospel ultimately comes from Satan. Satan hates the pure Gospel of Grace and does not want to see anyone saved. So Calvinism hides the heart of God and replaces it with the throne of God.

As you say, if Calvinism were true there would be no need for the Gospel. The elect would be saved regardless, and the non-elect would be damned regardless. After all the *God of Calvinism* has already decreed this.

 

[stillness]

Hello, fellow brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, saved objects of eternal just wrath to grace.

Here is what John 3:16-18 is really saying and implying, alot of people have it wrong and its important.

John 3:16-18 (the text itself)
16 “For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


Here is a Paraphrase:

(Paraphrase: express the meaning of (something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity)

Paraphrase:
GOD + LOVE + WORLD, World being: not just Israel, but also GENTILES.....indeed.... the Jews believed that the world was cursed by God and they were God's people, its quite to shock to Nicodemus the Pharisee........That God loves is to the world and not just Chosen Israel.

So WORLD doesn't mean universalism (false sinful doctrine), its talking about God's LOVE to the WORLD (not just Israel).

Okay, continuing on... God's LOVE is manifested in the cross THAT.. [THE ALL WHO BELIEVE] should not perish but have eternal life, that's correct! AKA the ALL who are believing, there is no WHOSOEVER in the greek...

Its the ONES that BELIEVE, which denotes a group... aka all the believing ones, like i said, there is NO WHOSOEVER in the text, its a bad word to use, so when you read that word you might think....... that MAN can believe and repent outside the elect grace of GOD, which is not true.

Anyway continuing: Verse 17: For God did not send his SON into the world to condemn the world, this is what they believed (the Jews), that God has come to bless them and curse the gentiles, BUT Jesus is saying NO....... I did not come to CONDEMN but to save the World (the world being not just Israel)... then to finish it up he says..... Verse 18: whosoever..... which is not implying that everyone can believe, but that THE EVERYONE WHO IS BELIEVING.... there is a difference.

Everyone who is believing shall be saved and SO this in no way contradicts or destroys election (we know only the elect do believe, believing is the result of the new birth and the new birth is the result of God's election).

So the point is that God doesn't Love the WHOOOOLEE WORLD........Its not implying that!.......WORLD does not mean every individual of the world that has every existed........ something that is a contradiction of much of the bible!....... aka Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

If God loves the whole world, then the whole world would be saved.... duuuuurrrrr....

Anyway enjoy. I hope its a help to you in Christ, i also hope this is an encouragement for Calvinistic-Brothers/Sisters an edification and also a help to Arminians-Brothers/Sisters to see their error in this area and repent.

Defiantly God did not have go go go university to learn to Love as God is Love

 

[Flint321]

well Amen, God is Love and that is seen in the gospel ofcourse, God being loving, doesn't mean God can't have particular love, or wait according to those who twist the word of God, it can!

Man distorts God into his own image.... GOD IS LOVE, therefore God loves everyone!...

Is that what it said? NO.

Oh the wickedness of Arminianism, God hates it.

God IS LOVE!

INDEED GOD IS LOVE, JACOB I LOVED SAYS GOD! ESAU I HATED SAYS GOD!

DOWN WITH YOUR WICKED IDOLS AND EXALT THE TRUE GOD!

GOD IS NOT MOCKED, IF YOU WANNA FOLLOW PAGAN DOCTRINE YOU WILL REAP ITS CONSEQUENCES.

FEAR GOD AND DEPART FROM EVIL.

TIME FOR A WAKE UP:

 

[calibob]

Hello, fellow brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, saved objects of eternal just wrath to grace.

Here is what John 3:16-18 is really saying and implying, alot of people have it wrong and its important.

John 3:16-18 (the text itself)
16 “For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


Here is a Paraphrase:

(Paraphrase: express the meaning of (something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity)

Paraphrase:
GOD + LOVE + WORLD, World being: not just Israel, but also GENTILES.....indeed.... the Jews believed that the world was cursed by God and they were God's people, its quite to shock to Nicodemus the Pharisee........That God loves is to the world and not just Chosen Israel.

So WORLD doesn't mean universalism (false sinful doctrine), its talking about God's LOVE to the WORLD (not just Israel).

Okay, continuing on... God's LOVE is manifested in the cross THAT.. [THE ALL WHO BELIEVE] should not perish but have eternal life, that's correct! AKA the ALL who are believing, there is no WHOSOEVER in the greek...

Its the ONES that BELIEVE, which denotes a group... aka all the believing ones, like i said, there is NO WHOSOEVER in the text, its a bad word to use, so when you read that word you might think....... that MAN can believe and repent outside the elect grace of GOD, which is not true.

Anyway continuing: Verse 17: For God did not send his SON into the world to condemn the world, this is what they believed (the Jews), that God has come to bless them and curse the gentiles, BUT Jesus is saying NO....... I did not come to CONDEMN but to save the World (the world being not just Israel)... then to finish it up he says..... Verse 18: whosoever..... which is not implying that everyone can believe, but that THE EVERYONE WHO IS BELIEVING.... there is a difference.

Everyone who is believing shall be saved and SO this in no way contradicts or destroys election (we know only the elect do believe, believing is the result of the new birth and the new birth is the result of God's election).

So the point is that God doesn't Love the WHOOOOLEE WORLD........Its not implying that!.......WORLD does not mean every individual of the world that has every existed........ something that is a contradiction of much of the bible!....... aka Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

If God loves the whole world, then the whole world would be saved.... duuuuurrrrr....

Anyway enjoy. I hope its a help to you in Christ, i also hope this is an encouragement for Calvinistic-Brothers/Sisters an edification and also a help to Arminians-Brothers/Sisters to see their error in this area and repent.

If I were a Judge and someone I loved committed a capitol offence and I had to pronounce the death sentence on them. I wouldn't stop loving them. I'd morn over their execution but remember;

​

Make no mistake about it I'm anti Vatican and anti Calvinist, pro Evangelical and strictly New Covenant. But certainly not universalist. The Devil surely believes in God but it takes more than that. Don't keep your lamp under a bushel or keep your stewardship burried in the yard put your faith to use, don't let it become useless, like salt that loses it's savor; Luke 14:33 In the same way, any one of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be My disciple. 34 Salt is good, but if the salt loses its savor, with what will it be seasoned? 35 It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile, and it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”…
Berean Study Bible ·

Read and study the letter to the Hebrews! The Tora has been replaced.

 

[Nehemiah6]

John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love

Do you know why someone started this thread? Because this passage thoroughly REFUTES Calvinism.

ALL SINNERS IN ISRAEL COULD BE SAVED BY LOOKING ON THAT SERPENT
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness...

THE BRAZEN SERPENT WAS A TYPE OF CHRIST MADE SIN FOR US
...even so must the Son of Man be lifted up:

"WHOSOEVER" MEANS ANYONE AND EVERYONE REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING
15 That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

GOD LOVED THE WORLD OF HUMANITY SO GREATLY THAT...
16 For God so loved the world...

CHRIST WAS THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TOOK AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD
...that he gave His only begotten Son...

ALL ARE COMMANDED TO BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
that whosoever believeth in Him...

ALL MAY RECEIVE THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST
...should not perish, but have everlasting life.

CHRIST CAME AS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD OF HUMANITY, NOT IT'S JUDGE AT THAT TIME
17 For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world;

GOD WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND TO COME UNTO A KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH
...but that the world through Him might be saved.

ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND REPENT ARE SAVED
...18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned:...

THOSE WHO REFUSE TO BELIEVE ARE CONDEMNED ALREADY
...but he that believeth not is condemned already,

THERE IS ONLY ONE NAME GIVEN UNDER HEAVEN WHEREBY WE MAY BE SAVED
...because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[fredoheaven]

Hello, fellow brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, saved objects of eternal just wrath to grace.

Here is what John 3:16-18 is really saying and implying, alot of people have it wrong and its important.

John 3:16-18 (the text itself)
16 “For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


Here is a Paraphrase:

(Paraphrase: express the meaning of (something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity)

Paraphrase:
GOD + LOVE + WORLD, World being: not just Israel, but also GENTILES.....indeed.... the Jews believed that the world was cursed by God and they were God's people, its quite to shock to Nicodemus the Pharisee........That God loves is to the world and not just Chosen Israel.

So WORLD doesn't mean universalism (false sinful doctrine), its talking about God's LOVE to the WORLD (not just Israel).

Okay, continuing on... God's LOVE is manifested in the cross THAT.. [THE ALL WHO BELIEVE] should not perish but have eternal life, that's correct! AKA the ALL who are believing, there is no WHOSOEVER in the greek...

Its the ONES that BELIEVE, which denotes a group... aka all the believing ones, like i said, there is NO WHOSOEVER in the text, its a bad word to use, so when you read that word you might think....... that MAN can believe and repent outside the elect grace of GOD, which is not true.

Anyway continuing: Verse 17: For God did not send his SON into the world to condemn the world, this is what they believed (the Jews), that God has come to bless them and curse the gentiles, BUT Jesus is saying NO....... I did not come to CONDEMN but to save the World (the world being not just Israel)... then to finish it up he says..... Verse 18: whosoever..... which is not implying that everyone can believe, but that THE EVERYONE WHO IS BELIEVING.... there is a difference.

Everyone who is believing shall be saved and SO this in no way contradicts or destroys election (we know only the elect do believe, believing is the result of the new birth and the new birth is the result of God's election).

So the point is that God doesn't Love the WHOOOOLEE WORLD........Its not implying that!.......WORLD does not mean every individual of the world that has every existed........ something that is a contradiction of much of the bible!....... aka Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

If God loves the whole world, then the whole world would be saved.... duuuuurrrrr....

Anyway enjoy. I hope its a help to you in Christ, i also hope this is an encouragement for Calvinistic-Brothers/Sisters an edification and also a help to Arminians-Brothers/Sisters to see their error in this area and repent.

you do not need to reconditioned our mind of your 'paraphrasing'/ opinion. I stand for the word of God, scripture of truth, given by inspiration. John 3:16-18 is simply understood, just don't try to make it complicated. Every major English bible version renders the Greek 'pas' in the passage as 'whosoever, whoever' which means 'if any one' or 'anyone whom'.

 

[Magenta]

God IS LOVE!

INDEED GOD IS LOVE, JACOB I LOVED SAYS GOD! ESAU I HATED SAYS GOD!

DOWN WITH YOUR WICKED IDOLS AND EXALT THE TRUE GOD!

GOD IS NOT MOCKED, IF YOU WANNA FOLLOW PAGAN DOCTRINE YOU WILL REAP ITS CONSEQUENCES.

FEAR GOD AND DEPART FROM EVIL.

TIME FOR A WAKE UP:

Jacob and Esau are two nations in Rebecca's womb.

One becomes Israel, and the other, Edom.

 

[Flint321]

you do not need to reconditioned our mind of your 'paraphrasing'/ opinion. I stand for the word of God, scripture of truth, given by inspiration. John 3:16-18 is simply understood, just don't try to make it complicated. Every major English bible version renders the Greek 'pas' in the passage as 'whosoever, whoever' which means 'if any one' or 'anyone whom'.

Well you have a good point, but yeah just trying to do my best, i think one of the more important points is the word 'WORLD" because if World means universalism then we have major contradictions with other texts in the bible.

Universalism being the idea that God loves everyone savingly, which is a wicked lie!

 

[Flint321]

God loves a world of sinners who believe and to believe is to be elect.