Not By Works
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And that does not raise a red flag?
Believing is not a work of the works gospel, just the opposite. To make continuing to believe a self accomplished burden border lines dangerously close to "type 2 works salvation." Either we were fully persuaded and truly believe from the beginning and will continue to believe or else belief was never firmly rooted and established from the start, which results in shallow, temporary belief withering away.
Believing is not a work of the works gospel, just the opposite. To make continuing to believe a self accomplished burden border lines dangerously close to "type 2 works salvation." Either we were fully persuaded and truly believe from the beginning and will continue to believe or else belief was never firmly rooted and established from the start, which results in shallow, temporary belief withering away.
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I don't believe that predestination revolves around fatalistic determination, but God's foreknowledge. (Romans 8:29-30) God's preservation (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) is not fatalistic determination and believers do not persevere in their own strength. Also, perseverance is proof of genuine conversion. (Hebrews 3:14; Colossians 1:23)
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Trusting in Christ for the forgiveness of sin is in fact the one and only way to declared righteous (justified). And it is diametrically opposed to doing works of the law to be justified. But so many think if you have to continue to trust in Christ to stay justified and saved then that is a works gospel. Where is believing in Christ for the forgiveness of sins ever spoken of in the Bible as being a self righteous act that can not justify?
Loss of salvation is only a red flag to you. Because of your particular denominational beliefs that train you to see a red flag where there is none.
The red flag in their doctrine is not that you can lose your salvation. The red flag is that they base salvation on the merit of WORKS, not on trust in Christ. That's the red flag you are not paying attention to.
The red flag in their doctrine is not that you can lose your salvation. The red flag is that they base salvation on the merit of WORKS, not on trust in Christ. That's the red flag you are not paying attention to.
Amen!
Continuing to trust in Christ is not a works gospel. Turning continuing to trust in Christ into a difficult burden that will only happen if we accomplish X,Y & Z is flirting with "type 2 works salvation." God's preservation then turns into man's preservation.
It's found nowhere in the Bible.
Continuing to trust in Christ is not a works gospel. Turning continuing to trust in Christ into a difficult burden that will only happen if we accomplish X,Y & Z is flirting with "type 2 works salvation." God's preservation then turns into man's preservation.
It's found nowhere in the Bible.
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Don't forget, I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and they relentlessly attacked the OSAS doctrine. I've been in multiple discussions with numerous other people as well who relentlessly attack the OSAS doctrine, including Mormons, Campbellites, SDA's etc.. and they ALL teach salvation by works. That is certainly a red flag for me!
I have paid close attention to the fact that these groups base salvation on the merit of works, which heavily influences their belief in NOSAS, hence the red flag.
I have paid close attention to the fact that these groups base salvation on the merit of works, which heavily influences their belief in NOSAS, hence the red flag.
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no, wrong.
there is no " gushing up to eternal life". that's just fancy language for works salvationism.
one is saved be belief, as I gave you the definition of earlier. then, walking out that believe ( sanctification ) is a separate conversation.
salvation and sanctification are not the same thing.
there is no " gushing up to eternal life". that's just fancy language for works salvationism.
one is saved be belief, as I gave you the definition of earlier. then, walking out that believe ( sanctification ) is a separate conversation.
salvation and sanctification are not the same thing.
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Yes, right.
“The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” - Jesus
One sentence I wrote was not Scripture. If you have an argument, it seems it’s not with me.
And holiness, since you bring it up, isn’t extra credit. “Having been set free from sin, the benefit we reap leads to holiness, the result of which is eternal life.”
“The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” - Jesus
One sentence I wrote was not Scripture. If you have an argument, it seems it’s not with me.
And holiness, since you bring it up, isn’t extra credit. “Having been set free from sin, the benefit we reap leads to holiness, the result of which is eternal life.”
Here's your sinless perfection hero John Wesley, written to his brother, toward the end of his life:
"In one of my last I was saying I do not feel the wrath of God abiding on me; nor can I believe it does. And yet (this is the mystery) (I DO NOT LOVE GOD. I NEVER DID). Therefore [I never] believed in the Christian sense of the word. Therefore [I am only an] honest heathen, a proselyte of the Temple, one of the phoboumenoi theon. [‘Those that fear God.’]
And yet to be so employed of God! and so hedged in that I can neither get forward nor backward! Surely there never was such an instance before, from the beginning of the world! If I [ever have had] that faith, it would not be so strange. But [I never had any] other elenchos of the eternal or invisible world than [I have] now; and that is [none at all], unless such as fairly shines from reason’s glimmering ray. [I have no] direct witness, I do not say that [I am a child of God], but of anything invisible or eternal.
And yet I dare not preach otherwise than I do, either concerning faith, or love, or justification, or perfection. And yet I find rather an increase than a decrease of zeal for the whole work of God and every part of it."
Better give up your works for salvation, and sinless perfectionism NOW, and rely SOLELY on Jesus Christ!
"In one of my last I was saying I do not feel the wrath of God abiding on me; nor can I believe it does. And yet (this is the mystery) (I DO NOT LOVE GOD. I NEVER DID). Therefore [I never] believed in the Christian sense of the word. Therefore [I am only an] honest heathen, a proselyte of the Temple, one of the phoboumenoi theon. [‘Those that fear God.’]
And yet to be so employed of God! and so hedged in that I can neither get forward nor backward! Surely there never was such an instance before, from the beginning of the world! If I [ever have had] that faith, it would not be so strange. But [I never had any] other elenchos of the eternal or invisible world than [I have] now; and that is [none at all], unless such as fairly shines from reason’s glimmering ray. [I have no] direct witness, I do not say that [I am a child of God], but of anything invisible or eternal.
And yet I dare not preach otherwise than I do, either concerning faith, or love, or justification, or perfection. And yet I find rather an increase than a decrease of zeal for the whole work of God and every part of it."
Better give up your works for salvation, and sinless perfectionism NOW, and rely SOLELY on Jesus Christ!
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of course. works salvationism trick no.1
" you are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Scripture"
of course , it is yanked out of context Scripture, and ignores the definitions of the words of said yanked out of context Scripture...
you guys all operate the same, same tactics, same little sayings, nothing new under the sun.
" you are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Scripture"
of course , it is yanked out of context Scripture, and ignores the definitions of the words of said yanked out of context Scripture...
you guys all operate the same, same tactics, same little sayings, nothing new under the sun.
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Jacob Prasch tells the following story in one of his sermons
Richard Wurmbrand, a Jewish Christian who wrote the book “Tortured for Christ”. And was tortured first by Nazis and then 14 years by Communists, was asked which of the promises of Jesus sustained him most during these troublesome times
This was his answer.
“A person reaches a point where none of the promises of Christ is able to sustain him. Jesus sustains him.”
I find this very profound, and there is a truth in there that we dare not miss.
He had no more strength, not even enough strength to cling to the promises, but did not deny Christ, because Jesus sustained
Richard Wurmbrand, a Jewish Christian who wrote the book “Tortured for Christ”. And was tortured first by Nazis and then 14 years by Communists, was asked which of the promises of Jesus sustained him most during these troublesome times
This was his answer.
“A person reaches a point where none of the promises of Christ is able to sustain him. Jesus sustains him.”
I find this very profound, and there is a truth in there that we dare not miss.
He had no more strength, not even enough strength to cling to the promises, but did not deny Christ, because Jesus sustained
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E
They have a playbook called..... "The Art of War against Greasy Gracers"
They are trained in it, and then sent out on streets and digital highways to show seeds of doubt, confusion and find converts.
Unashamedly promote a work for salvation doctrine and that doctrine only comes from a bad place.
... and I fear they are growing in number.
They are trained in it, and then sent out on streets and digital highways to show seeds of doubt, confusion and find converts.
Unashamedly promote a work for salvation doctrine and that doctrine only comes from a bad place.
... and I fear they are growing in number.
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Correct . Continuance in the faith is not a work. But we can put ourselves under a works Gospel by adding works to faith. We do not stay justified by doing things, but we grow, are established, become fruitful, are kept from falling, and our joy is made full by the blessed gifts God gives that accompany salvation.
It is tragic when we fail to receive ALL that God desires for us
It is tragic when we fail to receive ALL that God desires for us
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