Is the doctrine of limited atonement biblical?
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The person who doesn't must be sad indeed. "Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine. Oh what a foretaste of glory divine!" Jesus died to make it possible for anyone to know. The Holy Spirit within testifies, gives witness, and comforts from within everyone who surrenders to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Scripture says the elect can have "full assurance".
I think some baby Christians may lack it, because they need to suck on the bottle a little longer, but the real elect know they are saved.
I think that you know my beliefs good enough that you are not including me in your statement that, "many that believe in limited atonement, they get it from the person who they look up to". At least I hope that some of my explanations of the way that I glean truths from the scriptures has been noted by you.
You are correct, it is sad if you don't know if you are one of the elects, but Scriptures is clear that those who believer have eternal life.
Scriptures is clear that ALL who believe have eternal life and those who are newborns have the same assurance. But to believe that God chooses some for eternal life and some for eternal damnation is preposterous and those who believe this false doctrine are contributing in distorting the word of God and you appear to be one of them.
You fabricated lies and convinced yourself to believe the lies accusing me as making false statement. As I told flint321 that you will never apologize because to you cannot admit a wrong and to admit it means that many would not take you seriously. Until you apologize, I will call you a liar.
The problem that I have with you is two issues you made... You stated that all Israel (12 tribes) are chosens even those of the 12 tribes who died doing that which is wicked in the sight of God, in other words, you believe that Jeroboam from the tribe of Ephraim, who deliberately sinned against God, who made Israel to sin against God will have eternal life, and that those who are regenerated are not born-again, something like that.
If I am not mistaken, I said that if all the 12 tribes were of the elect that they would have eternal deliverance. If all of them are not of the elect then those that are not will not be eternally delivered. If I am mistaken in this, let me know. What was the other issue that you have a problem with?
I agree with you, in the fact that, all who believe have eternal deliverance. But the natural man, 1 Cor 2:14 will not believe in the things of the Spirit, that he cannot discern, until he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Believing and repenting is a product of having already been born again.
Forrest, you appear to be double minded in the way you respond.
1) When you are saying eternal deliverance, is that the same as eternal life in your mind, Yes or No?
2) What is regeneration to you?
3) What is born-again to you?
4) Do God condemns to eternal damnation?
You care respond in one sentence for each one, please do not write a book, I will not be impressed with a page, I just need a simple response.
1. I am sorry. At my age memory sometimes fails me. I thought I had already explained "deliverance" to you, but maybe not. In the Greek interpretation of the word "salvation" means "a deliverance", So, Yes it is the same as eternal life. 2. Regeneration is the same as being born again. 3. Born again is being born spiritually, by God. 4. Condemn, according to Greek is "to declare to be wrong" Man cause's himself to be wrong by his works, and then God condemns him for the bad choices he has made. God did not choose anybody to go to hell. I think that I mentioned to you earlier that the doctrine that I believe in is difficult to understand, so I understand your confusion. Jesus had the same reaction when he taught it in person.
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Thank you for responding and I fully understand your position and your position appears to be sound doctrine. At times, the way you wrote I was a little confused because you appeared not to be clear, mostly in the regeneration/born-again issue. But your statement on the 12 tribes of Israel that those who died in their sins belonging to one of the tribes (like Jeroboam who was wicked) will have eternal life is not scriptural and it is a false statement you made and you cannot substantiate your statement with the Scriptures.
It is good to know that you have sound doctrine when it comes to salvation.
In my post #330, I explained my position about the 12 tribes, and that is; Everyone that is included in his chosen elect in Eph 1, Will be delivered to eternal heaven. I know that I am of the elect, But I can not determine who else is elec, therefore, I cannot say that all persons that make up the twelve tribes are of the elect. The scriptures say that we can know them by their displaying of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, (Matt 7:16-17, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit, so, if a corrupt brings forth good fruit for his own personal gain, it becomes evil fruit.) So I believe those that are not of the elect can do good works, but only if it benefits them.
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This is where you cause others to question you. Scriptures tell us that all who believe in Yeshua will be saved (eternal life) and let me elaborate on believe, one must accept the atonement that Yeshua did on the cross.
* Why you state that you are one of the elect, tell me why.
* You did not respond to my question on Jeroboam who is from the tribe of Ephraim and deliberately did that which is evil in the sight of the LORD. Being that he is of one of the tribes will he be delivered and have eternal life, yes or no? Just answer yes or no.
Let me add that I am not talking about one child know them by their fruits.
I haven't claimed that God chooses some for eternal damnation.
He "passes over" them, just like the death angel passed over the Israelites who were covered by the blood of Christ.
Your problem is with God's election, and 1 Cor 1:26ff teaches clearly that election is biblical, and in fact he elects individuals with certain characteristics that are unappealing, so that his glory is shown more clearly.
This aligns perfectly with Romans 8-9. Free-willers simply deny what the Bible says.
Regarding you, I'm not even sure what lies or fabrications you claim I made. You aren't even sure Jesus is the Savior so I'm not sure how you become an authority figure on Christianity. You apparently aren't even saved yet, if you just "lean toward" Jesus.
Please identify the false statement I made, and I will address it.
However, you are trying to instruct others on Christianity. You remind me of my brother, who has a drinking problem and has lived with women, while trying to correct me for not observing the Saturday Sabbath, like the cult we were brought up in. My question to him was, why in the world are you trying to preach the Sabbath to me, when you get drunk and womanize? His answer: we're all sinners.
Own up to it! If God chooses some for salvation that AUTOMATICALLY makes it so He chose others NOT TO BE SAVED. By passing over them as you said.
I say AMEN to that! NOW WHAT?
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Forest, I know what you say, but please respond accordingly to the following...
* Why do you state that you are one of the elect, tell me why?
* You did not respond to my question on Jeroboam who is from the tribe of Ephraim and deliberately did that which is evil in the sight of the LORD. Being that he is of one of the tribes will he be delivered and have eternal life, yes or no? Just answer yes or no. Is Jeroboam who was evil causing Israel to sin against God, will he have eternal life, yes or no?
Respectfully, I think that I have explained every one of the questions to you, But I will state them again. I am in agreement with you, that all who believe will be delivered eternally. I do not believe that Christ's atonement was an offering to man for man's acceptance, But was an offering to God for God's acceptance. If I was not one of the elect, I would be just like the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14, unable to discern the things of the Spirit and, therefore would not seek God. As far as "deliberately doing that which is evel in the sight of the LORD" Every born again child of God does evil in the sight of the Lord sometimes and is required to repent to regain fellowship with God. I'm sorry, but I can not say, yes or no, about Jeroboam, because given to our sinful nature, I can not determine whether he is of the elect or not.