Not By Works

[BillG]

Yes, I think our growth in grace comes naturally as we grow spiritually with Christ to guide us and keep us, while ever we are in His presence.

Thanks for clarifying for me.
I was just a bit concerned that you were conveying that once we come to Jesus then the fruit come naturally as in straight away.

I'm a man who was battered by it.
Was told things like "you still smoke? Just stop it and if you don't you will smell like the place you are going to which is hell.

Same with my gambling addiction. Yet no one took the time to come alongside and ask why.

The response was "Bible says now go do"
If I could why would I seek help in the first place?

As a child who was bought up by a mother who hated me, shame on Muslim woman to get pregnant by a Catholic, was on the abortion table but the doctors could not carry it out.

Then thrown out by her at 13. Taken in by a Christian foster family then sexually abused (side note sexually abused by an uncle and cousin at the age 8-9).

Never told I was loved, basically a piece of something you would wipe of your shoes.

If only people in the church had come alongside and discipled me.
Not with don't do but with how much God loves me, that actually he is my Father.
There is a lot more in the Bible than go do.
It doesn't stop at stopping stuff.

Jesus said "The Father loves me/you/us as much as he loves him"
Hey walk in that, go do that.

Hey God says he loves us with an everlasting love and will never forsake you (throw you out) hey go walk in that.

I'm just trying to give an insight to my life and journey with God.
I stopped going to church for about 10 years. I felt so useless and worthless.
Never lost my faith in Jesus but lost my faith in the people of the church.

It didn't come naturally but I grew in the fruit as a result of understanding who I am in Jesus.

So my question was based on my experience and just wanted to make sure that you are not one of the people who says "Bible says now go do"

Just to finish I actually thank God for what I have been through because

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

He has worked good in what I have been through and now is using me to walk with others who have gone through what I have.

 

[BillG]

Being the son and walking with the Father.

But he left the Father.

But he came back.

 

[BillG]

I had not thought if this... certainly while they were doing what they were doing missing out on the riches of God's grace.

As I have posted a few posts back

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Back to work I go. Everyone have a joyful day. 🙂

You too Bro

 

[PennEd]

The believer who stops believing and goes back to unbelief does lose salvation. And they can not be saved again. God does not allow that.

I don't see how if that's true that makes it impossible that believers can lose their salvation.

Going to ask you to be honest. Have you ever been a member of CC under a different name?

 

[BillG]

Everything you said was true, except, I think “walking with the Father”. If there is one thing being a prodigal does, it harms our fellowship with the Father. That’s the biggest thing we miss out on as prodigals.

Sin affects fellowship. That’s why when we confess our sins, it is not to be saved again, (of course). It is to restore fellowship to the place where there is no thing that hinders our confidence towards God

I think confession is more to remove self imposed barriers of guilt and harm of our assurance, for us, barriers self imposed and maintained, not God imposed and maintained

I agree totally with confession of sin to the Father.
I think it's a relational thing.
I did actually think about posting that but did not.
The reason being the prodigal son could not do that.
He did not have the access to Father that we have today.
He acknowledged when returned that he had sinned but that he was no longer to be worthy to be called his son.

On account of Jesus we can confess on a daily basis.
We will always be his children.
We have the opportunity to confess 24/7.
Not to be forgiven because we already have been.

That's why I did not post the Bible verse "If we confess our sin"
The truth for me is that when we sin the barrier is guilt that stops us from coming to God (well for some it is) and God does not want that.

That is why the temple curtain was torn in two.

 

[Butterflyyy]

He would if they were never saved.

'Again' being the operative word...

 

[Butterflyyy]

I don't think he understands that to be severed from Christ, means you need to belong to Christ first, before you can be severed.

I hadn't a quick look at the Greek word for severed and you make an interesting point.

 

[Butterflyyy]

View attachment 208264

Thank you Father, for kittens and sea shells and sand dollars💕🙏🏻❤️🤗xx

 

[EleventhHour]

Going to ask you to be honest. Have you ever been a member of CC under a different name?

Yes that is a very good question indeed...... very familiar rhetoric.

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't believe a true believer can fall from grace.
But I do believe a believer can negate the working of grace in their lives.

We only need to look at the prodical son.
Still a son, yet ended up eating the food of pigs after peeing it up against the wall.
Miserable period of time.

Whilst doing that he could not experience the unmerited favour until he returned.
Yet we know he was still a son of the Father.
Being the son and walking with the Father.

I agree they cannot fall from positional grace.... I do not think this is what Paul was referencing here since that does not harmonize with his other writings.

 

[Butterflyyy]

I do not think you understand that is a set us free synonym Born Again. And it referring to the Yoke of Bondage, as Yoke of the LEGALISM.

You have got to understand that there are disciples that have NOT YET been BORN AGAIN, and are NOT SAVED. Such as these Disciples:


John 6:66 (NIV)
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

The FACT that they FOLLOWED HIM, does not mean those were SAVED BELIEVERS. Many just FOLLOW HIM for the SHOW, of HIS healings and Miracles. And that word disciples, only means a follower of a certain teacher, no matter how long of short the length of their stay was. SO THEY HAD NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN AND BELIEVED. They were their for only the entertainment value. If you want to see proof that Disciple, only means FOLLOWER, here it is:

Matthew 9:14 (ASV)
14 Then come to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?

Mark 2:18 (NKJV)
18 The disciples of John and of the Pharisees were fasting. Then they came and said to Him, "Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?"


So it does not mean that they were SAVED followers of Jesus, only JUST FOLLOWERS who were not SAVED, and left HIM.

There are saved believers who get entangled in the bondage of legalism; I know, I was one; and God in His faithfulness and loving-kindness delivered me from it👌🙏🏻❤️

 

[EleventhHour]

I think he meant In other words, we do not manufacture it, He produces it, as we yield to His Grace more and more

And it does grow as we mature, yes.

I think that grace is available to us as soon as we are saved... however I agree that it takes a level of understanding as we grow in knowledge.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

'Again' being the operative word...

Yes

they were in bondage

they were now in a lace where they could find grace

and they were returning again to bondage

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hadn't a quick look at the Greek word for severed and you make an interesting point.

Again, judas is a, great example

 

[EleventhHour]

The believer who stops believing and goes back to unbelief does lose salvation. And they can not be saved again. God does not allow that.

I don't see how if that's true that makes it impossible that believers can lose their salvation.

I would state this incorrect according to God's Holy word..... since salvation is a one time event that wherein a person is justified a status conferred by God that cannot be revoked, lost or forsaken.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes

they were in bondage

they were now in a lace where they could find grace

and they were returning again to bondage

They had found grace .... hehehehe

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree they cannot fall from positional grace.... I do not think this is what Paul was referencing here since that does not harmonize with his other writings.

Justification

that is positional grace

paul said justified by grace multiple times he never mentioned sanctification up to that point

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They had found grace .... hehehehe

Yet they were attempting to be justified by law (works) as Paul said. in romans And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

 

[EleventhHour]

Don't miss what the passage is saying.
Jesus said it is better to get rid of those in the body who cause stumbling than to keep them and cause little ones who believe in Jesus to stumble and go to the eternal flames of hell. But once saved always saved doctrine says that can not ever happen to believers.

Matthew 18:6-9 NAS
whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it (those who cause stumbling) off and throw it from you; it is better for you (little ones who believe in Me) to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it (those who cause stumbling) out and throw it from you. It is better for you (little ones who believe in Me) to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

I wonder if someone @dcontroversal, @eternally-gratefull @OneOfHis @PennEd
Could clarify this post please and show that it does not mean what his stating it means.
Thank you

Showing the love again