Prophesying Forbidden

[7seasrekeyed]

You know full well that the name cessationist does not properly describe a biblical understanding of 1 Cor 13:8. There is no point in relitigating the argument. Three gifts ended the rest continue.

I do not need to inquire why the "flaming" Pentecostals covet the three gifts that ended.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. I Corinthians 12:31

I undrstand some people believe certain gifts ended

for those people, it is my understanding they did indeed end

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That is further evidence that the situation described in the passage has not been fulfilled yet. Paul is also leading up to his discussion of the resurrection at the coming of Christ, and 'then cometh the end' (telos) in chapter 15.

Fortunately, we do not have to guess, since earlier in the epistle, Paul frames the discussion of the topic for his epistle:

I Corinthians 1:7
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

ah yes

now you have been formaly introduced to Roger!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The bible uses the phrase "batting the air"
Cessationists exercise tireless energy to "prove" God no longer has power through his disciples.

Unimaginable to take such a position (faithlessly devoted to shake the faith of those that believe the bible and God are true) ,and then pray for some miracle that they are in need of.

What a pit.

Great,great,great deception.

 

[presidente]

ah yes

now you have been formaly introduced to Roger!

I've dialogued with him before. I've just been away from the forum for a while.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I've dialogued with him before. I've just been away from the forum for a while.

ok

he and I are besties when it comes to discussing tongues and the like

as best we don't discuss it at all with one another

 

[tourist]

You would believe, then, that you do not have the gift of knowledge?

Knowing he didn't have the gift of knowledge would actually be proof that he does indeed have this gift. Of course, what do I know as I'm probably lacking this gift.

 

[garee]

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. I Corinthians 12:31

I undrstand some people believe certain gifts ended

for those people, it is my understanding they did indeed end

What do you say.Have they ended. Or is there no such thing as a "sign gift" (one seen)

I have searched and find none .The word sign and gift do not appear together to create one doctrine. Spiritual gifts not seen, yes. Gifts seen to confirm, no .

 

[presidente]

What do you say.Have they ended. Or is there no such thing as a "sign gift" (one seen)

I have searched and find none .The word sign and gift do not appear together to create one doctrine. Spiritual gifts not seen, yes. Gifts seen to confirm, no .

Usually, cessationists use the term 'sign gift' and people who believe that they operate use terms found in their Bible translations like 'gifts' or 'spiritual gifts.

 

[Adstar]

The problem arises if you have already agreed not to do so, and if you are faced with an agreement not to speak if the Spirit directs you to, would you sign it?

Allowing people to speak their carnal thoughts and forbidding them to speak words as they are directed by the Spirit on a Christian forum is a bad recipe. So was not allowing discussion on the Biblical responsibilities in marriage, but allowing the opposite opinion to be aired.

If it was a choice between signing or not then i would not sign..

 

[Lanolin]

So if you sign this form, is does that mean you have a 'sign gift' ...sorry, its rather confusing.

I remember I was banned a few times on that forum for just posting scripture they didnt like. Also the mods tried to reeducate me and say I was offending catholics, or those who dont read the Bible. Couldnt win.

Oh well their loss.

 

[presidente]

So if you sign this form, is does that mean you have a 'sign gift' ...sorry, its rather confusing.

I remember I was banned a few times on that forum for just posting scripture they didnt like. Also the mods tried to reeducate me and say I was offending catholics, or those who dont read the Bible. Couldnt win.

Oh well their loss.

Cessationist believe certain spiritual gifts have ceased. Between one cessationist and another, which gift ceased and their theological arguments for why they believe they have ceased may not agree with one another. Usually, speaking in tongues is on that list of gifts they would do away with. Cessationism is a rather late viewpoint, historically. Some groups of cessationists use the term 'sign gifts' to refer to gifts that they think were signs, and usually they use this term as a category to put all the gifts they want to do away with in, so they can say the sign gifts ceased. 'Sign gifts' is not a term found in scripture. Garee seems to think people who believe these gifts today like the term 'sign gifts.' I've pointed the problem with this line of reasoning out to him in the past.

My OP was also not about digitally signing a form agreeing not to engage in personal prophecy or prophetic utterance on another forum. So there are at least two types of signs or signing being discussed.

 

[crossnote]

Accountability: On a public Forum, like this or Worthy, anyone can run around 'prophesying' "Thus saith the Lord" without repercussions. In a Church setting where it can personally be found false, the false prophet can and should be dealt with to protect the other members.

 

[presidente]

Accountability: On a public Forum, like this or Worthy, anyone can run around 'prophesying' "Thus saith the Lord" without repercussions. In a Church setting where it can personally be found false, the false prophet can and should be dealt with to protect the other members.

It is possible for other members to exercise discernment on a forum like this. Typically, there are those who despise prophesyings based on misinterpretation, which hinders the process.

The problem arises, though, that a rule against allowing people to speak as moved by the Holy Ghost is not a very reverent policy if you think about it. And for those who interpret prophesying as preaching or include preaching in their definition of prophesying, agreeing not to prophesy is agreeing not to preach the word, so how could members of a forum agree to that?

I know what you mean, though. I was on a forum once where a guy, who got booted shortly after, PMed lots of people with a message that God had given the blessings and anointing intended for them.... something along those lines... to him. It was a really weird message and I've seen other weird messages proporting to be from God on other forums posted publicly.

In the church, the New Testament does not teach to not allow prophesying because someone might prophesy falsely. Rather, they are to let the prophets speak two or three, and the others are to weigh carefully what is said. One sitting by may share a revelation and the speaking prophet should be silent. For ye may all prophesy one by one.... Paul is emphatic that what he wrote were commandments of the Lord, so churches should take this seriously, even though it does not jibe very well with a lot of church liturgies, written or unwritten, formal or informal, today. Does this apply outside of church? The Bible has many examples of what some now call 'personal prophecies' especially in the Old Testament. Was the incident in Philip's home where Agabus prophesied to Paul a church meeting? That isn't clear. But there is no scripture in the New Testament that I can find that takes the idea of the Spirit speaking through individuals outside of church off the table.

 

[CS1]

I used to be active on Christianforums, but they put up a new set of rules a while back. I did not agree and so I was inactive, maybe because I did not want to read a long page of rules at the time.

I thought about signing up again, and I came across this in the rules. I found this objectionable, "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) will be considered off-topic to all site forums."

I Corinthians 14 says '...covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues.' Prophesying is emphasized here over speaking in tongues, so it stands to reason that if we are to covet it, we are not to forbid it. Earlier of church meetings, he commanded, passing on what he emphatically stated were the commandments of the Lord, "Let the prophets speak... and 'For ye may all prophesy....' Paul commanded the Thessalonians 'Despise not prophesyings...'

My understanding is that prophesying generally involves speaking as moved/carried-along by the Holy Ghost as Peter described Old Testament prophecy. It could be other forms of communication as well like singing, even the use of musical instruments. Typically Old Testament prophets prophesied in the first person and sometimes preceded their quotes from God with 'Thus saith the Lord'. But Peter called David a prophet and not all of his prophetic Psalms follow this format. John even said Caiaphas prophesied when he said that one Man should die for the people. Caiaphas probably did not even know that he was prophesying.

If it is possible to prophesy-- to speak under the moving of the Spirit-- without even knowing it, why would one agree never to give prophetic utterance? The rule said personal prophesy, but many posts on the forum there are personal advice to an OP. So if the Spirit moves an individual to type out a piece of advice, it is forbidden to do so, but advice from one's own mind is allowed?

And what about those in the Reformed movement who define prophesying to be faithful preaching and teaching of the scriptures. If a pastor who posts faithfully uses the scriptures to instruct an individual with a bit of personal information, couldn't they consider that 'prophesying.' I see a distinction between prophesying and teaching in scripture, but if one sees this as prophesying, why would he agree to such a rule?

I wanted to send someone from ChristianForums a little note explaining that I would not agree to their terms for the reasons stated above, but I could not reach anyone without agreeing to the terms. So I thought I would vent a bit here since the topic might make a good topic for discussion.

Do denominations, pastors, or churches have the authority to override the 'commandments of the Lord' in I Corinthians 14 that permit prophesying? Should a Christian discussion board attempt to forbid individuals from speaking as moved by the Holy Spirit?

Personal prophecy is not used in 1cor 12 through 14. The gift is for the Whole Body of Christ. Things said to one person must be a confirmation, not a revelation. many do not understand the context of Prophetic utterances or how they are to 1. line up with the word of God 2. Edify & comfort 3. Bring glory to God. 4. spoken in confirmation. Everything is to be done in order and discipline 1cor 14:40 says. the Prophesying of a Prophet in Old by the Holy Spirit is not what the context of 1cor 12 through 14. The greek is speaking of one speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to "Proclaim" the gospel. the Old Testament Prophet spoke Judgement and used to instruct and bring warning to repent.

 

[garee]

I used to be active on Christianforums, but they put up a new set of rules a while back. I did not agree and so I was inactive, maybe because I did not want to read a long page of rules at the time.

I thought about signing up again, and I came across this in the rules. I found this objectionable, "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) will be considered off-topic to all site forums."

I Corinthians 14 says '...covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues.' Prophesying is emphasized here over speaking in tongues, so it stands to reason that if we are to covet it, we are not to forbid it. Earlier of church meetings, he commanded, passing on what he emphatically stated were the commandments of the Lord, "Let the prophets speak... and 'For ye may all prophesy....' Paul commanded the Thessalonians 'Despise not prophesyings...'

My understanding is that prophesying generally involves speaking as moved/carried-along by the Holy Ghost as Peter described Old Testament prophecy. It could be other forms of communication as well like singing, even the use of musical instruments. Typically Old Testament prophets prophesied in the first person and sometimes preceded their quotes from God with 'Thus saith the Lord'. But Peter called David a prophet and not all of his prophetic Psalms follow this format. John even said Caiaphas prophesied when he said that one Man should die for the people. Caiaphas probably did not even know that he was prophesying.

If it is possible to prophesy-- to speak under the moving of the Spirit-- without even knowing it, why would one agree never to give prophetic utterance? The rule said personal prophesy, but many posts on the forum there are personal advice to an OP. So if the Spirit moves an individual to type out a piece of advice, it is forbidden to do so, but advice from one's own mind is allowed?

And what about those in the Reformed movement who define prophesying to be faithful preaching and teaching of the scriptures. If a pastor who posts faithfully uses the scriptures to instruct an individual with a bit of personal information, couldn't they consider that 'prophesying.' I see a distinction between prophesying and teaching in scripture, but if one sees this as prophesying, why would he agree to such a rule?

I wanted to send someone from ChristianForums a little note explaining that I would not agree to their terms for the reasons stated above, but I could not reach anyone without agreeing to the terms. So I thought I would vent a bit here since the topic might make a good topic for discussion.

Do denominations, pastors, or churches have the authority to override the 'commandments of the Lord' in I Corinthians 14 that permit prophesying? Should a Christian discussion board attempt to forbid individuals from speaking as moved by the Holy Spirit?

Rrivate interpretation as private revelations only look to widen the authority of the book of prophecy which is all things written in the law and the prophets. We can offer our private interpretation as personal commentaries in that way their must be heresies or sect as denominations amongst us . But when looking to add or subtract from the whole and in doing so destroy the seven seals .Then we know another kind of spirt is a work opposing the gospel (sola scriptura) Again widening the authority of the book of prophecy ..sola scriptura

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to these, God will give that person the plagues written about in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away that person’s share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are written about in this book.Revelation 22

The danger of "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) the work of mystics .


www.thecatholictreasurechest.com/urban.htm

Pope Urban VIII, 1623-1644: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not believe, for if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe and it shall be "proven false", you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true."

 

[Dino246]

Rrivate interpretation as private revelations only look to widen the authority of the book of prophecy which is all things written in the law and the prophets. We can offer our private interpretation as personal commentaries in that way their must be heresies or sect as denominations amongst us . But when looking to add or subtract from the whole and in doing so destroy the seven seals .Then we know another kind of spirt is a work opposing the gospel (sola scriptura) Again widening the authority of the book of prophecy ..sola scriptura

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to these, God will give that person the plagues written about in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away that person’s share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are written about in this book.Revelation 22

The danger of "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) the work of mystics .

Your comments are misguided at best. You have been told repeatedly that people who believe in the presently-active gift of prophecy do not believe that it is intended to be additions to Scripture, yet you keep decrying it as though they do.

Why are you so resistant to learning?

 

[crossnote]

It is possible for other members to exercise discernment on a forum like this.

People with discernment, yes. But babes in Christ? No.

 

[garee]

Your comments are misguided at best. You have been told repeatedly that people who believe in the presently-active gift of prophecy do not believe that it is intended to be additions to Scripture, yet you keep decrying it as though they do.

Why are you so resistant to learning?

Your comments are misguided at best. You have been told repeatedly that people who believe in the presently-active gift of prophecy do not believe that it is intended to be additions to Scripture, yet you keep decrying it as though they do.

Why are you so resistant to learning?

I am slow .What's your excuse?

We were discussing the danger of adding new prophecy called "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance). This cut off after any manner of prophecy to includes tongues or parables, dreams or visions, out of body experiences . The new age is here . Have you ever experienced what some call supernatural .the new age experience them all who need faith the unseen eternal.

The devil three times in Mathew 4 attempted to put his lying wonder in Jesus's fleshly mind. Three time the father put words in Jesus' mouth as it is written. It representing the faith of God that worked to moved him to disappear.

What does the sign of tongues or prophecy as a law confirm ?

Yet for all that they still refuse to hear the word of God prophecy ?

Colossians 2 emphasizes not seeing things that are not there puffed up by ones own fleshly mind

Colossians 2:18 Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels.[b] They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas. 19

 

[garee]

Cessationist believe certain spiritual gifts have ceased. Between one cessationist and another, which gift ceased and their theological arguments for why they believe they have ceased may not agree with one another. Usually, speaking in tongues is on that list of gifts they would do away with. Cessationism is a rather late viewpoint, historically. Some groups of cessationists use the term 'sign gifts' to refer to gifts that they think were signs, and usually they use this term as a category to put all the gifts they want to do away with in, so they can say the sign gifts ceased. 'Sign gifts' is not a term found in scripture. Garee seems to think people who believe these gifts today like the term 'sign gifts.' I've pointed the problem with this line of reasoning out to him in the past.

My OP was also not about digitally signing a form agreeing not to engage in personal prophecy or prophetic utterance on another forum. So there are at least two types of signs or signing being discussed.

God has ceased to add to His book of prophecy and added seven seals with a warning . The last chapter of book is still Revelation. There are no laws missing by which we could know him more adequately.

He even warned beforehand if some say there he is, I had a dream or a vison. The Commandment . Beleive not .

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.Mathew 24:23-26

It is why the elect will not be deceived with sign that produce lying wonders(no faith)

Spiritual gift unseen, are spiritual unseen .

Tongues which is simply prophecy according to a know language is given as a spiritual gift two fold. The words to the speaker and ears to hear the prophecy to the hearer. It is a sign against the faithless Jew that mocked God refusing to hear prophecy. They did what their own mouths said and sought after the oral tradition of the fathers and saw no evil . God with stammering lips ,mocking lips mocked those faithless Jews that represent unbelief in mankind . The sign is still against unbelieving mankind.

 

[CS1]

Your comments are misguided at best. You have been told repeatedly that people who believe in the presently-active gift of prophecy do not believe that it is intended to be additions to Scripture, yet you keep decrying it as though they do.

Why are you so resistant to learning?

to whom are you speaking?