Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

That’s cool. Just be sure to note the tenses of the verbs. 🙂

Okay Discern... have done my homework on the words, tenses, context etc.,

Are you ready for it ...it will blow you away.

@eternally-gratefull states we need more humour...

 

[Judges1318]

John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.

Then why are you defending the argument that the believer can go back to unbelief and they are still saved because salvation can not be lost?

 

[Judges1318]

John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.

It seems that you have agreed with me all along that you have to keep believing in order to be saved.
Why didn't you tell me that right from the beginning?

 

[PennEd]

Then why are you defending the argument that the believer can go back to unbelief and they are still saved because salvation can not be lost?

Show me where I said any such thing. I have consistently said someone who leaves the faith and never comes back, was NEVER a believer to begin with.

 

[PennEd]

It seems that you have agreed with me all along that you have to keep believing in order to be saved.
Why didn't you tell me that right from the beginning?

I don’t agree with you in the sense that a born again Child of God can ever lose their Salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Show me where I said any such thing. I have consistently said someone who leaves the faith and never comes back, was NEVER a believer to begin with.

Just like the rest,

they do not listen so they never comprehend a thing you say

eventually they will fall to saying you say things you never said

 

[Hevosmies]

It seems that you have agreed with me all along that you have to keep believing in order to be saved.
Why didn't you tell me that right from the beginning?

Maynnnn!

You make believing sound like a chore. Its like you gotta constantly keep believing. EITHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR YOU DONT. Its like the flat earth theory, either you are indoctrinated by NASA or you believe the earth is flat, i mean DUH look OUTSIDE buddy. What about them folks in Australia? HUH!!? They'd fall off the globe LOL. The epitomy of ignorance.

Its just like that too with the Gospel. EITHER YOU BELIEVE IT, or you DONT. And I personally CANNOT stop believing in something I know. I cant "stop believing" in my mother, because I know my mother, i've met my mother, I talk to my mother, my mother talks to me and THATS THE SAME WAY with JESUS. I just cant stop believing.

If you dont agree with me im afraid that I have to declare you a spiritual BUM!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then why are you defending the argument that the believer can go back to unbelief and they are still saved because salvation can not be lost?

John said a

you day b

then falsly say someone they never said

why will you not just humble yourself and have faith in what John said?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maynnnn!

You make believing sound like a chore. Its like you gotta constantly keep believing. EITHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR YOU DONT. Its like the flat earth theory, either you are indoctrinated by NASA or you believe the earth is flat, i mean DUH look OUTSIDE buddy. What about them folks in Australia? HUH!!? They'd fall off the globe LOL. The epitomy of ignorance.

Its just like that too with the Gospel. EITHER YOU BELIEVE IT, or you DONT. And I personally CANNOT stop believing in something I know. I cant "stop believing" in my mother, because I know my mother, i've met my mother, I talk to my mother, my mother talks to me and THATS THE SAME WAY with JESUS. I just cant stop believing.

Yep,

like the man on the train to heaven holding on for dear life. Never actually getting inside because he cant

 

[Judges1318]

I don’t agree with you in the sense that a born again Child of God can ever lose their Salvation.

You believe that the believer must continue to believe to be saved.
You just believe that true believers will always believe.
That's a whole other argument.

But just to be clear, you agree with me that a person who does not presently believe in Jesus can in no way be saved, right?

Are you paying attention 11th hour?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You believe that the believer must continue to believe to be saved.
You just believe that true believers will always believe.
That's a whole other argument.

But just to be clear, you agree with me that a person who does not presently believe in Jesus can in no way be saved, right?

Are you paying attention 11th hour?

John said they were never of us

end of argument

we listen to John, not you

 

[Judges1318]

You make believing sound like a chore.

I'm only saying what the Bible says.
And it says to retain what you heard from the beginning.
If that sounds like a chore to you, then you're saying the Bible makes believing sound like a chore.

 

[JadenS]

[16] Salute one another with an holy kiss. All the churches of Christ salute you. [17] Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. [18] For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent. [19] For your obedience is published in every place. I rejoice therefore in you. But I would have you to be wise in good, and simple in evil. [20] And the God of peace crush Satan under your feet speedily. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

 

[JadenS]

Who said the individual Israelites that died in unbelief were EVER His Children?
John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.


So go to work, BUT, stop working to maintain your Salvation. Realize how offensive it is to preach that God will cast His born again Children, that He died for, gave a NEW heart to, made a NEW creation, into the Lake of Fire!

[11] Trust not in iniquity, and cover not robberies: if riches abound, set not your heart upon them. [12] God hath spoken once, these two things have I heard, that power belongeth to God, [13] And mercy to thee, O Lord; for thou wilt render to every man according to his works.

 

[EleventhHour]

Show me where I said any such thing. I have consistently said someone who leaves the faith and never comes back, was NEVER a believer to begin with.

A bit of a wordsmith here..... hope you do not mind......they do not "leave the faith", they never were in the faith.

 

[JadenS]

Then why are you defending the argument that the believer can go back to unbelief and they are still saved because salvation can not be lost?

Because he is one of them.

 

[Hevosmies]

I'm only saying what the Bible says.
And it says to retain what you heard from the beginning.
If that sounds like a chore to you, then you're saying the Bible makes believing sound like a chore.

You believe that retain what you heard from the beginning means "Keep believing in Jesus?"

Did you bother to look at the CONTEXT if you are referring to 2 Timothy 3:14?

In all of those its talking about the FAITH once delivered to the saints meaning the doctrines, practices, teachings and so on and so forth. HOLD ON to them, dont be DECEIVED by the false prosperity gospel for example, dont fall for name it claim it blab it grab it, dont go after circus preachers.

 

[Hevosmies]

A bit of a wordsmith here..... hope you do not mind......they do not "leave the faith", they never were in the faith.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Its biblical terminology PennEd used! Just like they went out from us and so on and so forth, the parable of the sower, some believed for a while then fell away some had no root and all that. ITS IN THERE.
The elect wont be lost!

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal: the Lord knows those who are His and everyone who names the name of the Lord must abstain from unrighteousness.

Now in a large house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay - and some to honor and some to dishonor. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things he will be a vessel for honor, made holy, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

We are radically changed. We are made new and have a new Way of life! Praise the Lord.

 

[EleventhHour]

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Theres your leaving the faith right there

Yes, as long as we see this as the body of beliefs and not personal faith...I think that was my point I was trying to make.