3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
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I did just that. I linked you to an article full of supporting scripture.
My post with supporting scripture reposted here:
Whispered said:
I don't believe Holy Spirit God indwells the unbeliever first so that they can understand the word. I believe The Word, Holy Spirit God, indwells the scriptures so that the hurting soul desperate for relief from worldly woe is able to be reached in their time of trouble. Because they're open to the spirit in the word to lead them home.
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
It would appear you are ignoring the Isaiah scripture I posted that has the entire chapter of Isaiah, not just two verses, so as to show context in the teaching.
My post with supporting scripture reposted here:
Whispered said:
I don't believe Holy Spirit God indwells the unbeliever first so that they can understand the word. I believe The Word, Holy Spirit God, indwells the scriptures so that the hurting soul desperate for relief from worldly woe is able to be reached in their time of trouble. Because they're open to the spirit in the word to lead them home.
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
It would appear you are ignoring the Isaiah scripture I posted that has the entire chapter of Isaiah, not just two verses, so as to show context in the teaching.
If you believe that believing in the things of the Spirit before being born of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then how do you explain Eph 2? In the process of being born again of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the natural man was yet dead, spiritually, in sins and could not believe in the things of the Spirit until he was born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The precise wording of Romans 9 refutes any notion of double predestination.
Rom 9: 22,23
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath (1) prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has (2) prepared beforehand for glory—
1) https://biblehub.com/greek/2675.htm
katartizó
2) https://biblehub.com/greek/4282.htm
proetoimazó
Rom 9: 22,23
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath (1) prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has (2) prepared beforehand for glory—
1) https://biblehub.com/greek/2675.htm
katartizó
2) https://biblehub.com/greek/4282.htm
proetoimazó
The now departed R.C. Sproul was one of the foremost voices in Reformed Theology, Calvinism.
If there is no free will, why is the Bible filled with the language of choice? - R.C. Sproul
The Book of Romans chapter 9
21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
As is today, pastor John Piper
The Book of Romans chapter 8
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
If there is no free will, why is the Bible filled with the language of choice? - R.C. Sproul
The Book of Romans chapter 9
21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
As is today, pastor John Piper
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
The natural man is not beyond comprehension about salvation. . We do not limit the convicting power of the Holy Ghost. It just only takes him to believe or not to believe. Once a person who have heard the gospel and Christ, a person may receive or reject salvation. Salvation is full and free but one need to respond by faith, and this is what the bible teaching as explain in Ephesians 2:8. Salvation is all by God's grace through faith. In Ephesians 1:13, salvation is 'after' hearing, then trusted or believed the gospel of salvation.
Ephesians 1:13 Context
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Ephesians 1:13 Context
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
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I love the doctrine of predestination. It’s a wonderful thing knowing my destination is set and guaranteed by God.
The believer is predestined. No unbeliever is ever predestined. The believer is predestined for the adoption. It’s the future promise of a redeemed body. The Holy Spirit has sealed me, guaranteed it’s going to happen. I will be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What’s the adoption?
Romans 8:23 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Once I believe the gospel, once I’m in Christ, my destination is set.
The believer is predestined. No unbeliever is ever predestined. The believer is predestined for the adoption. It’s the future promise of a redeemed body. The Holy Spirit has sealed me, guaranteed it’s going to happen. I will be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What’s the adoption?
Romans 8:23 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Once I believe the gospel, once I’m in Christ, my destination is set.
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If it was the case, that the Holy Spirit convicts the natural man, then why in Eph 2 it says that the natural man was yet dead (spiritually) in his sins before God regenerated him? If the Holy Spirit, previously, taught him the gospel which tells of Jesus's salvation on the cross, then he would not have been spiritually dead before he was regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. All scriptures must harmonize.
After we were already born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we were, in essence, sealed (stamped) by the promise of the Holy Spirit as the earnest (guarantee) of our eternal inheritance. We had already received the Holy Spirit in the new birth and he was not giving us himself again, but a promise, With the same meaning that Christ said on the cross "it is finished".
God soverignly in grace and mercy according to His Will and choice called Abraham. God then soverignly in grace and mercy and according to His choice abrogated and nullified Abraham's plan of Ishmael.
Same goes for the apostles. Same goes for Matthias.
And same goes for every single faithful believer.
Ultimately God soverignly and in grace and mercy overruled abrogated and nullified original sin and Satan's claim and mans incapacity which would have resulted in ALL men condemned to eternal hell.
I really don't understand the vaccilating and equivocation.
Same goes for the apostles. Same goes for Matthias.
And same goes for every single faithful believer.
Ultimately God soverignly and in grace and mercy overruled abrogated and nullified original sin and Satan's claim and mans incapacity which would have resulted in ALL men condemned to eternal hell.
I really don't understand the vaccilating and equivocation.
Yes, scripture must harmonize but the question is are we doing it? Let' see what the Scripture says then compare with what you say. Once again I'll be quoting on Ephesians 1
Ephesians 1:12-15 King James Version (KJV)
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
The context is about 'trusting, believing or faith in the Lord Jesus", in whom 'after' that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit. and that is what the scripture is saying.
But look, the conflicting statement of yours, it dose not really harmonize with the scriptures.
"After we were already born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we were, in essence, sealed (stamped) by the promise of the Holy Spirit as the earnest (guarantee) of our eternal inheritance."
This trying to put the cart first and not the horse and I would believe the scriptures says. that those who first trusted Christ are those who have heard the gospel and were sealed with that Holy Spirit. So if you mind I would like to rephrase your statement according to the Scripture.
"After we were already born again, by the quickening of the Holy Spirit, we were, in essence, sealed (stamped) with that Holy Spirit of promise as the earnest (guarantee) of our eternal inheritance."
Ephesians 1:12-15 King James Version (KJV)
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
The context is about 'trusting, believing or faith in the Lord Jesus", in whom 'after' that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit. and that is what the scripture is saying.
But look, the conflicting statement of yours, it dose not really harmonize with the scriptures.
"After we were already born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we were, in essence, sealed (stamped) by the promise of the Holy Spirit as the earnest (guarantee) of our eternal inheritance."
This trying to put the cart first and not the horse and I would believe the scriptures says. that those who first trusted Christ are those who have heard the gospel and were sealed with that Holy Spirit. So if you mind I would like to rephrase your statement according to the Scripture.
"After we were already born again, by the quickening of the Holy Spirit, we were, in essence, sealed (stamped) with that Holy Spirit of promise as the earnest (guarantee) of our eternal inheritance."
Ephesians 2 is reaching of the merciful and loving God (Eph. 2:4), that even when we were dead in sins, the Holy Spirit of promise hath made us alive. This is a work of grace for it is only by the grace of God that we are saved through faith. Further Eph. 2 speaks of the "time past" and how those dead receives life, again it is only by the grace of God through faith.
The point that I was trying to make is the fact that the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2;14 will not harmonize with Eph 1:13 for the fact that the natural man will not hear (discern) the word of truth until he has been born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. In my understanding, you are giving the natural man the ability to hear and discern the things of the Spirit before he is born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in order to discern spiritual things. Before he is born again he thinks that spiritual things are foolishness.