What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?
- Thread starter Hevosmies
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There are passages that tell of Christ returning with holy angels as well. But I Thessalonians 4 says that the saints will me the Lord in the air at His coming/parousia. Why would it be called his coming/parousia if he does not actually come here? Where does the Bible teach that Jesus makes a u-turn? For the saints, it says that they will meet the Lord in the air.
So are you calling Stephen, James, and probably 11 or so of the 12 apostles (counting Matthias not Judas)... and Paul... lazy, and are you saying they took the easy way out?
You really should think before you type.
You can spin the parable of the virgins in a pretrib way like pretribbers do with other passages. Do you have any scripture that actually teachs pre-trib? The rapture/resurrection event occurs at Jesus coming in I Thes. 4. Do you have any Biblical evidence that Jesus will come back multiple times? Or why do you think the saints will be raptured before Jesus comes back instead of what the Bible teaches?
You really should think before you type.
You can spin the parable of the virgins in a pretrib way like pretribbers do with other passages. Do you have any scripture that actually teachs pre-trib? The rapture/resurrection event occurs at Jesus coming in I Thes. 4. Do you have any Biblical evidence that Jesus will come back multiple times? Or why do you think the saints will be raptured before Jesus comes back instead of what the Bible teaches?
Ha! Just natural disasters!? Yeah, natural disasters on super steroids! Yeah, demonic beings resembling locusts with stings like scorpions always come out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth. It's a common event 
It Sounds like Hank Hanegraaff, who in one of books rifled off several of the plagues of wrath and called them hyperbole.
It Sounds like Hank Hanegraaff, who in one of books rifled off several of the plagues of wrath and called them hyperbole.
-
1
- Show all
And John 14:1-3
I was going to answer, but the question was to you, so I left it alone.
I truly don't understand why people ask the question of where the Bible teaches Jesus taking His church back to heaven. It is very plain to read and understand, regardless off one's belief of when this event takes place.
=========================================================================
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.
(John 14:1-3)
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." (I Cor.15:51-53)
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." (I Thess.4:16-17)
=============================================================================
I know that you know all this John, but this is more for Presidente and others to read.
In John 14:1-3, we have Jesus stating that in His Father's house are many rooms. Then He says that He going to prepare places for us, which would be in the Father's house. Then He says, I will come back, so that we also can be where He is, which again, would be the Father's house. Therefore, regardless of one's timing of this event, at some point the Lord will return to get His church and take them back to the Father's house. The post tribulation belief does not allow for this to take place.
Both I Cor.15:51-53 and I Thess.4:16-17, is the detailed account of the promise made in John 14:1-3 when the Lord comes to get His church.
I was going to answer, but the question was to you, so I left it alone.
I truly don't understand why people ask the question of where the Bible teaches Jesus taking His church back to heaven. It is very plain to read and understand, regardless off one's belief of when this event takes place.
=========================================================================
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.
(John 14:1-3)
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." (I Cor.15:51-53)
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." (I Thess.4:16-17)
=============================================================================
I know that you know all this John, but this is more for Presidente and others to read.
In John 14:1-3, we have Jesus stating that in His Father's house are many rooms. Then He says that He going to prepare places for us, which would be in the Father's house. Then He says, I will come back, so that we also can be where He is, which again, would be the Father's house. Therefore, regardless of one's timing of this event, at some point the Lord will return to get His church and take them back to the Father's house. The post tribulation belief does not allow for this to take place.
Both I Cor.15:51-53 and I Thess.4:16-17, is the detailed account of the promise made in John 14:1-3 when the Lord comes to get His church.
-
1
- Show all
You know this is really getting old by you guys and this "wrath" thing. Of course God has destined us for wrath because were His children. Did you read the context before you quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:9? I don't think did j146. Look at vs2 (and I'm going to parapharse the verses). "For you yourselves know that the day of the Lord will come like a thief."
Vs3, "When they say peace and safety then destruction will come." Who do you think the "THEY" is j146 who will not escape" Escape what j146? Vs4, "But you brethren, (meaning Christians) are not in darkness that the day should overtake you." In other words the ones that are in darkness are the unsaved people.
Vs5, We are sons of light and sons of day/saved. We are not of night or darkness/the unsaved. Vs6-8, We should live soberly and put on the breastplate of faith and love etc. Vs9, FOR (or because) God has not destined us for wrath, BUT FOR OBTAINING SALVATION THROUG OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."
The clear context of vs9 is showing us that the ones destined for God's wrath/judgment are those who are not saved. Now, this is backed up by Romans 1:18, Romans 2:5 and in the OT Nahum 1:2. Please read the verses. In short what you have done j146 is attaching chapter 5 to the rapture at 1 Thess chapter 4:13-18.
Now, I have noticed that no one has used Luke 21 as a cross reference to Matthew 24. At Luke 21:34, "Be on guard that your hearts may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day come on you suddenly like a trap. Vs35, for (or because) IT WILL COME UPON ALL THOSE WHO DWELL ON THE FACE OF ALL THE EARTH." It seems to me that the great tribulation at least according to this verse includes everbody on the face of the earth.
So wher's the rapture, or should I say when did the rapture happen? It didn't! Read Luke 21:36, "But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."
So why do we need to pray for strength if were not going to be here? Secondly, if were going to be raptured I thought we will be seated for the marriage supper of the Lamb, not stand before the Son of Man?
Did you notice that these events are spoken of in terms of the "last day." And at 1 Corinthinas 15:52, "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable and we will be changed. Also read verses 53-58.
Now, here is my last question? At 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 when the Lord comes and according to those verses "in a twinkling of an eye" are we raptured to heaven or are we coming to the earth?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Vs3, "When they say peace and safety then destruction will come." Who do you think the "THEY" is j146 who will not escape" Escape what j146? Vs4, "But you brethren, (meaning Christians) are not in darkness that the day should overtake you." In other words the ones that are in darkness are the unsaved people.
Vs5, We are sons of light and sons of day/saved. We are not of night or darkness/the unsaved. Vs6-8, We should live soberly and put on the breastplate of faith and love etc. Vs9, FOR (or because) God has not destined us for wrath, BUT FOR OBTAINING SALVATION THROUG OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."
The clear context of vs9 is showing us that the ones destined for God's wrath/judgment are those who are not saved. Now, this is backed up by Romans 1:18, Romans 2:5 and in the OT Nahum 1:2. Please read the verses. In short what you have done j146 is attaching chapter 5 to the rapture at 1 Thess chapter 4:13-18.
Now, I have noticed that no one has used Luke 21 as a cross reference to Matthew 24. At Luke 21:34, "Be on guard that your hearts may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day come on you suddenly like a trap. Vs35, for (or because) IT WILL COME UPON ALL THOSE WHO DWELL ON THE FACE OF ALL THE EARTH." It seems to me that the great tribulation at least according to this verse includes everbody on the face of the earth.
So wher's the rapture, or should I say when did the rapture happen? It didn't! Read Luke 21:36, "But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."
So why do we need to pray for strength if were not going to be here? Secondly, if were going to be raptured I thought we will be seated for the marriage supper of the Lamb, not stand before the Son of Man?
Did you notice that these events are spoken of in terms of the "last day." And at 1 Corinthinas 15:52, "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable and we will be changed. Also read verses 53-58.
Now, here is my last question? At 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 when the Lord comes and according to those verses "in a twinkling of an eye" are we raptured to heaven or are we coming to the earth?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You know this is really getting old by you guys and this "wrath" thing. Of course God has destined us for wrath because were His children. Did you read the context before you quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:9? I don't think did j146. Look at vs2 (and I'm going to parapharse the verses). "For you yourselves know that the day of the Lord will come like a thief."
Vs3, "When they say peace and safety then destruction will come." Who do you think the "THEY" is j146 who will not escape" Escape what j146? Vs4, "But you brethren, (meaning Christians) are not in darkness that the day should overtake you." In other words the ones that are in darkness are the unsaved people.
Vs5, We are sons of light and sons of day/saved. We are not of night or darkness/the unsaved. Vs6-8, We should live soberly and put on the breastplate of faith and love etc. Vs9, FOR (or because) God has not destined us for wrath, BUT FOR OBTAINING SALVATION THROUG OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."
The clear context of vs9 is showing us that the ones destined for God's wrath/judgment are those who are not saved. Now, this is backed up by Romans 1:18, Romans 2:5 and in the OT Nahum 1:2. Please read the verses. In short what you have done j146 is attaching chapter 5 to the rapture at 1 Thess chapter 4:13-18.
Now, I have noticed that no one has used Luke 21 as a cross reference to Matthew 24. At Luke 21:34, "Be on guard that your hearts may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day come on you suddenly like a trap. Vs35, for (or because) IT WILL COME UPON ALL THOSE WHO DWELL ON THE FACE OF ALL THE EARTH." It seems to me that the great tribulation at least according to this verse includes everbody on the face of the earth.
So wher's the rapture, or should I say when did the rapture happen? It didn't! Read Luke 21:36, "But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."
So why do we need to pray for strength if were not going to be here? Secondly, if were going to be raptured I thought we will be seated for the marriage supper of the Lamb, not stand before the Son of Man?
Did you notice that these events are spoken of in terms of the "last day." And at 1 Corinthinas 15:52, "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable and we will be changed. Also read verses 53-58.
Now, here is my last question? At 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 when the Lord comes and according to those verses "in a twinkling of an eye" are we raptured to heaven or are we coming to the earth?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Vs3, "When they say peace and safety then destruction will come." Who do you think the "THEY" is j146 who will not escape" Escape what j146? Vs4, "But you brethren, (meaning Christians) are not in darkness that the day should overtake you." In other words the ones that are in darkness are the unsaved people.
Vs5, We are sons of light and sons of day/saved. We are not of night or darkness/the unsaved. Vs6-8, We should live soberly and put on the breastplate of faith and love etc. Vs9, FOR (or because) God has not destined us for wrath, BUT FOR OBTAINING SALVATION THROUG OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."
The clear context of vs9 is showing us that the ones destined for God's wrath/judgment are those who are not saved. Now, this is backed up by Romans 1:18, Romans 2:5 and in the OT Nahum 1:2. Please read the verses. In short what you have done j146 is attaching chapter 5 to the rapture at 1 Thess chapter 4:13-18.
Now, I have noticed that no one has used Luke 21 as a cross reference to Matthew 24. At Luke 21:34, "Be on guard that your hearts may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day come on you suddenly like a trap. Vs35, for (or because) IT WILL COME UPON ALL THOSE WHO DWELL ON THE FACE OF ALL THE EARTH." It seems to me that the great tribulation at least according to this verse includes everbody on the face of the earth.
So wher's the rapture, or should I say when did the rapture happen? It didn't! Read Luke 21:36, "But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."
So why do we need to pray for strength if were not going to be here? Secondly, if were going to be raptured I thought we will be seated for the marriage supper of the Lamb, not stand before the Son of Man?
Did you notice that these events are spoken of in terms of the "last day." And at 1 Corinthinas 15:52, "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable and we will be changed. Also read verses 53-58.
Now, here is my last question? At 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 when the Lord comes and according to those verses "in a twinkling of an eye" are we raptured to heaven or are we coming to the earth?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
