Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

You lose the justification that your trust and belief secured.

You can't have the benefit of a sacrifice that is applied to you through your believing if you no longer have the believing that applied it to you.

False alert.....my bible says justified eternally as Christ STANDS IN THE SANCTUARY MINISTERING FOREVER

Man you must serve a weak, inept god that cannot keep his promises

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you.
Would you say this scripture tells us we are always saved in all circumstances?

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Why do you continue to ignore the rest of the passage.which shows that some people are near to being dead. But saved nontheless

the same author says christ perfected forever through his sacrifice those who are being sanctified

you have the author contradicting himself

sad man, sad!

 

[dcontroversal]

Some people have a false faith.

Some people believe they can murder and do all sorts of unholy things and still be saved.

It seems some people do not believe in the judgement.

Some people even Red Cross scripture that says:-

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Some people are false teachers.

hahahahahahahahahahah dude, when do you actually study the word of God, much less just read it.....a cursory read proves your view is as false as they come....same rings true of your false allegations......wow

 

[dcontroversal]

It would seem you 're woefully unaware that it impossible to for Jesus to loose one of His own.

I am completely dismayed daily by those that come to this thread and promote that Christ Jesus is an incompetent Saviour.

Yep..he is one of the worst....his Jeezus gets you half way and then he must finish it up....bad deal!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus doesn't lose them in that he is somehow some bumbling idiot who fails in his ministry. As evidence of this, Jesus said one was lost because of the failure of the person (Judas), not because of a failure of Himself.



You can have the best doctor in the world but if you don't keep your appointments and don't do what he says and you die it's not because of some supposed incompetence on the part of the doctor. That won't happen. That's what it means for Jesus to not lose any (except the one who was lost-Judas). It's the person's fault, not Jesus' fault.

Nothing like a little pseudo christian humor in the morning....

 

[dcontroversal]

the sheep dont just leave the good shepherd thats not biblical. but you not knowing anything about the bible is nothing surprising. you believe jews followed a false god in the ot and dont believe God commanded tehm to take out the canaanites etc. evil nations. heretic. you are calling the God of israel a false god. thats a big worry, if you can lose salvation i guarantee thats something that made you just lose it. by calling one of the big men of faith moses as following false god.

here is the truth about the sheep, they dont just start wondering and the good shepherd looks around and says too bad they left cant do anything dumdeedaah what kind of failure god do you have?

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

says the good shepherd loses nothing and the sheep dont just walk away and shepherd is sitting there idle. remember people dont listen to this guy PS he is a villain heretic doesnt even believe in the God of israel. what a joke this man is allowed on this forum to spread unbelief. if u think im too hard or dont believe me go read the "God is a moral monster" thread where dibby and PS have been busy disrespecting Yahweh.

Light him up my little brother....his gospel has no power and reeks of cainology!

 

[dcontroversal]

its standard human condition. worker salvation is default position of humans. thats why all religions are works based religions where good and bad deeds are weight on scales and if you do more on good side you make it if not no

thats why we need to get away from that human condition that natural depravation state. so we need God to born us again. then we are a new creature in Christ

i can speak from experience. people in that worker condition are in the flesh still

Cainology at it's worst!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some people have a false faith.

Some people believe they can murder and do all sorts of unholy things and still be saved.

It seems some people do not believe in the judgement.

Some people even Red Cross scripture that says:-

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Some people are false teachers.

You will never get it as long as you continue to fail to realise that ALL sin causes death. Your focused on murder and other sins like most legalists. While refusing to acknowledge that every sin you continue to commit in Gods eyes is just as serious as murder. So when you say some people think it is ok to murder, You judge yourself. Because you evidently think it is ok to do the sins you commit

Some people have false faith. They think they are saved, And they can do something, or not do something which will cause them to lose salvation. It is called faith in self. And lack of faith in God.

Heb 6 does not support your works based self righteous gospel. And you wasted your red X’s they fall on deaf ears. Because I refuse to bow down to your self righteous gospel of works.

I Know I am a sinner

I Know I am unworthy

I Know I will never live up to Gods demands (the law ie perfection)

I know my redeemer, My redeemer lives, And I Know him personally. Because he saved me and gave me eternal life

I Know your way also. I tried it. I never found victory, all I found was arrogance and pride. Thinking I was righteous, when in reality I was just another sinner acting like a christian. Thank God he showed me this, I just pray he shows you before it is too late.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

its standard human condition. worker salvation is default position of humans. thats why all religions are works based religions where good and bad deeds are weight on scales and if you do more on good side you make it if not no

thats why we need to get away from that human condition that natural depravation state. so we need God to born us again. then we are a new creature in Christ

i can speak from experience. people in that worker condition are in the flesh still

Its pride

People think murder is the worse sin, Look in the Bible You will find pride is the worse sin. In fact, the overt sin of murder stems from a deeper more serious sin of pride.

Where it not for Pride. There wold never have been a murder

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is how it should be, and that is excellent, you are a child of God, but there are those who for one reason or another turn their back on God and reject Him. That is very silly I know, but people do have a change of heart and it is only those I am talking about.

An John says they were never Saved (they were never of us)

Why would you want to contradict John?

Your unwillingness to take Gods word as it is is astounding.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep. The saved Galatians changed their mind about Christ.

Nope

Never happened.

Nice try though.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The top line of my signature:
Your life with Jesus Christ is finished if you try to be made right with God through the law, (Gal 5:4 ERV)

We can be rejected. Even if someone is working hard at their salvation, there is no guarantee they will be with Christ in heavens glory.

You can work your hardest every day of your life

and you wil still fall short.

This is what the law tried to show you. Sadly, You missed that point as well.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are not talking about believing Christians though are we, we are talking about people who used to believe once-upon-a-time, but over the years have lost faith, and turned their back on God, deliberately and knowingly rejecting Him.

They would be called antichrists
And john said in chapter three of his first epistle. That they were never of us, If they were of us, they would never have left.

John tells you who they are and what they are.

Why you continue to ignore is beyond me

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Bible ->> Jesus begins, finishes and completes the wirk of faith in us.

His false version -> I finish and complete the work of faith in me

One of the above saves.....the other leads to the pits of hell

Paul calls them fools in Galatians.

 

[Melach]

They would be called antichrists
And john said in chapter three of his first epistle. That they were never of us, If they were of us, they would never have left.

John tells you who they are and what they are.

Why you continue to ignore is beyond me

i know people in real world that also just ignore this verse. you read it and its like some block in their ears is installed. nothing gets through.

see they were never of us, otherwise they wouldnt of left.
- no they were of us then left
-but it says
-yeah they lost their salvation

jeez. its like dcontroversal says dense as led. i feel they read things into that passages like this, i put the works salvation commentary in brackets like this [ ] :

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing[unless they choose to stop obeying or believing], but should raise it up again at the last day[provided they remain steadfast in the faith]

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand [unless they decide to just walk away from my hand, of course]

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith[if we decide to co-operate with Him], who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life[unless he disobeys]. He does not come into judgment[maybe], but has passed from death to life.[we will see about that]

 

[EleventhHour]

You have it the wrong way round. It is not the fault of Jesus that that some sheep are lost, rather it is the fault of the sheep who think the grass in the other field is greener, so they leave the Good Shepherd and wander astray into another field.

If we do that, and "take words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life" (Rev 22:19)
By disregarding some scriptures, you are doing what you should not be doing.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

1 John 2:24 - See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

I regard all scripture and all scripture affirms when properly understood that the gift is eternal life.

2 Cor 2:21-22
21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.


With regards to 2 Peter 3:17 he telling them they already know the truth and to not let false teaching cause you to doubt your security in the LORD!!

How ironic that is exactly what you are doing.... trying to cause doubt on the security in the LORD

Next verse........

18 “Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” Knowledge is the best defense against error.

And you know what scripture refutes you at every turn!!

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, the saved person is saved for eternity. That's not the issue. The issue is, you have to keep believing in Christ to have the benefit of his sacrifice which never stops interceding for you in heaven. Under the old covenant the sacrifice did stop interceding for you and whatever life it secured for you came to end and you had to make repeated sacrifices because the one before it got used up.

Eternal life doesn't mean you can't lose it even if you stop believing in Christ. It means the life giving effect of the sacrifice of Jesus never ends like it did for the sacrifices under the old covenant. That's why we should not throw away the confidence we have in the sacrifice of Jesus that never stops giving life. Don't throw away the sacrifice that keeps on giving, forever.

Our belief is the vehicle, the means, (through faith Ephesians 2:8) by which we are saved.

It is not a work, and not meritorious, yet that is exactly what you are doing.

Because you make "belief" an ongoing requirement you change the very essence of what it means to receive the gift as one time deal.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yep..he is one of the worst....his Jeezus gets you half way and then he must finish it up....bad deal!

Another bad deal... apparently this Jeezus can still reject us.

@PS

We can be rejected. Even if someone is working hard at their salvation, there is no guarantee they will be with Christ in heavens glory.

Here I was thinking we were in a "Bible Discussion Forum" not the "Jeezus in Greek Mythology Forum"

 

[49]

Even if someone is working hard at their salvation,

??

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, but the 'trust and belief' must continue in order for the result to continue.

No, the gift is received completely by faith and all at once.

What we receive at our rebirth, a one time event is eternal in nature, it cannot be undone.

Here are some of the eternal accomplishments....

Redeemed,
Reconciled,
Forgiven,
Free from the law
Adopted
Accepted
Fellowship
Partakers
Light
Inheritors
United
Indwelt by the Holy Spirit
Sealed by the Holy Spirit
etc.,

As some once told me

We are either Perfectly SAVED or we are Perfectly LOST

Scripture clearly teaches we are perfectly saved!!