The usage of the words "all" and "world"

[Locoponydirtman]

Some reading comprehension will help here. Verse 5 says AMONG all the gentiles, not that all gentile will receive, but that the obedience will be among them. Among means surrounded by; in the company of.

Verse 7 should be self explanatory, to all who are beloved of God in Rome.
all WHO are beloved of God in Rome.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Peter, James, John and other apostles were once part the world but because they have believe in Christ they were born of God v1, likewise, whosoever believes on him will be a part of God's family. The world is described to those who have rejected Christ.☺

But that does not address my point my friend. It says the whole world lies under the power of the evil one. So, if “whole world” means everybody w/o exception, then even the saved would be under his power. So “whole world” here means all-encompassing. But all-encompassing should not be conflated as “everybody w/o exception”, either.

 

[John146]

Moving onwards and upwards...

As I stated in the OP, the words "all" and "world", even "whole world", rarely mean "everybody w/o exception", or "every person whoever lived". I am not saying they don't in some places, but most of them pertain to a particle group of ppl. So, let us delve into some verses...

We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.[1 John 5:19]

Notice that John has differentiated between the two ppl groups, the saved and the lost. The first part he wrote We know that we are of God, and here he is referring to the saved. He then wrote and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, and here is referring to the lost. In this he wrote and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, so we can know for certain that 'whole world' here does not mean "everybody whoever lived". But "whole world" here, John is referring to the lost. As the saved are longer under the power of Satan but God.

I agree, but verses like John 3:16 have no differentiation. So the meaning is the entire world without exception.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I agree, but verses like John 3:16 have no differentiation. So the meaning is the entire world without exception.

Yet, there’s Psalm 5:5 and Proverbs 6:16-19 and also Romans 9:13. You’re pitting John 3:16 against them.

 

[garee]

So the Pharisees said to one another, “You see that you are not doing any good; look, the world has gone after Him.”[John 12:19]

It would seem the "whole world" would include the kingdoms outside of the Jews. Another way of saying . . .the gentiles are seeking after His words. He has the whole world in His hands.

 

[fredoheaven]

But that does not address my point my friend. It says the whole world lies under the power of the evil one. So, if “whole world” means everybody w/o exception, then even the saved would be under his power. So “whole world” here means all-encompassing. But all-encompassing should not be conflated as “everybody w/o exception”, either.

Your comment stems from a wrong choice of the english version, hence, you are now telling that God is no longer in complete control but the evil one. We know it the whole worl lies in wickedness because of sin, and the saved are those whosoever believes on him were already set apart from the world, they now belong to Christ. Actually, in one sense you are correct in identifyin the saved from the whole world, yet ignores the pre apotsleship of John and others that they too were part of the word world but because of their belief in Christ(whosoever) have identified themseves rather as belonging to Christ and no longer attached to the rest of humankind.☺

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Then prove...

The word World in John 3:16, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation means "any aggregate or general collection of particles of any sort (used of believers only). John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. 1 John 2:15 - Love not the world, neither the things of the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Why would God tell us not to love the world that he so loves? John 1:29 - Did Jesus take away the sins of the whole world? 2 Cor 5:19 - Did God not impute trespasses to the whole world of mankind?

 

[John146]

1 John 2:15 - Love not the world, neither the things of the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Why would God tell us not to love the world that he so loves?

In other words, love not the Calvinist, neither the things of the Calvinist. If any man love the Calvinist, the love of the Father is not in him.😁

 

[fredoheaven]

The word World in John 3:16, according to Thayer's Greek interpretation means "any aggregate or general collection of particles of any sort (used of believers only). John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. 1 John 2:15 - Love not the world, neither the things of the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Why would God tell us not to love the world that he so loves? John 1:29 - Did Jesus take away the sins of the whole world? 2 Cor 5:19 - Did God not impute trespasses to the whole world of mankind?

Well, you are trying to prove mainly of what Thayer says. For your precaution, Thayer is not a bible believer. He is more a critic to the bible, a unitarianist. Your scriptural needs my further checking☺

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Your comment stems from a wrong choice of the english version, hence, you are now telling that God is no longer in complete control but the evil one. We know it the whole worl lies in wickedness because of sin, and the saved are those whosoever believes on him were already set apart from the world, they now belong to Christ. Actually, in one sense you are correct in identifyin the saved from the whole world, yet ignores the pre apotsleship of John and others that they too were part of the word world but because of their belief in Christ(whosoever) have identified themseves rather as belonging to Christ and no longer attached to the rest of humankind.☺

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.[1 John 5:19]

Even in the KJV my point is still on point my friend. The whole world in this verse does not mean each and every individual but the lost. John has made a clear delineation between the saved in the first portion of the verse when he wrote And we know that we are of God, which is referring to the saved and and the whole world lieth in wickedness, which is referring to the lost.

And absolutely God is in complete control my friend, even over each and every individual. All you have to do is look at Job. Satan throttled him, but only by God giving him so much power over him. God set the parameters of what he could do to Job, and nothing more. Just like the world here In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.[2 Cor. 4:4] Satan is in control of the world, but only within the parameters God has given him. That’s why he can’t keep blinded those who He has elected to save. He is the one who comes in and binds the strong man up, casts him out and spoils his goods[Matthew 12:29]. Satan will not leave of his own volition but has to be cast out. Only God can oust him, not man.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

From the op:

Many ppl when they see the words "all" and "world" they automatically say that means everybody w/o exception. Now, I am not saying that is never the case, but many many times it does not mean that. Let us look at a few verses...

naw. most Christians don't teach or believe that

I certainly don't know any who do and I am not a homebody

that does in no way change 'WHOSOEVER WILL' though

the Bible clearly indicates that only those who CHOOSE Jesus are saved and all others are not

the Bible also clearly states that hell was created for the devil and his angels and NOT human beings

the Bible means what it says as the word of God

you cannot alter that word and most of us understand quite well what is going on

JOHN 3: 16 is the real deal

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Well, you are trying to prove mainly of what Thayer says. For your precaution, Thayer is not a bible believer. He is more a critic to the bible, a unitarianist. Your scriptural needs my further checking☺

But if we are to even love our enemies, why are we commanded to not love the world if world here means each and every individual?

That’s easy to explain. The world in that verse means the world’s system and how it is opposed to all things God.

gotquestions.com has a good explanation of this...

Question: "What does it mean that we are not to love the world?"

Answer: First John 2:15-16 says, "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world." Yet John 3:16 begins, "For God so loved the world. . . ." So, God loves the world, but we are not supposed to? Why the apparent contradiction?

In the Bible, the term world can refer to the earth and physical universe (Hebrews 1:2; John 13:1), but it most often refers to the humanistic system that is at odds with God (Matthew 18:7; John 15:19; 1 John 4:5). When the Bible says that God loves the world, it is referring to the human beings who live here (1 John 4:9). And as His children, we are to love other people (Romans 13:8; 1 John 4:7; 1 Peter 1:22). The parable of the Good Samaritan makes it clear we cannot pick and choose whom to love (Luke 10:30-37).

When we are told not to love the world, the Bible is referring to the world's corrupt value system. Satan is the god of this world, and he has his own value system contrary to God's (2 Corinthians 4:4). First John 2:16 details exactly what Satan's system promotes: the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the boastful pride of life. Every sin imaginable can be summed up in those three evils: envy, adultery, pride, lying, selfishness, and more spring from those three roots.

The world is what we leave when we come to Christ. Isaiah 55:7 says that coming to God involves a forsaking of our own ways and thoughts. John Bunyan, in his book The Pilgrim’s Progress, pictures the believer’s position as having “his eyes lift up to heaven,” holding “the best of books” in his hand, and standing with “the world as cast behind him” (p. 34).

The world often applauds sin. Hollywood encourages us to envy sinners and to foolishly compare ourselves with the "beautiful people" (see Proverbs 23:17). Often the popularity of "stars" is due to their ability to stir in us dissatisfaction with our own lives. Advertisers prey on our natural tendency to love this world, and most marketing campaigns appeal in some way to the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, or the pride of life.

Loving the world means being devoted to the world’s treasures, philosophies, and priorities. God tells His children to set their priorities according to His eternal value system. We are to “seek first” God’s kingdom and righteousness (Matthew 6:33). No one can serve two masters (Matthew 6:24), and we cannot be devoted to both God and the world at the same time.

When we enter God's family through faith in Christ, God gives us the ability to exit the world's rat race (2 Corinthians 5:17). We become citizens of another kingdom (Philippians 1:27, 3:20). Our desires turn heavenward, and we begin to store up eternal treasure (Luke 12:33; Matthew 19:21; 1 Timothy 6:18-19). We realize that what is truly important is eternal, not temporal, and we stop loving the world.

To continue to love the world the way unbelievers do will cripple our spiritual growth and render us fruitless for God's kingdom (Matthew 3:8; Luke 6:43-45; John 15:1-8). In John 12:25, Jesus took this thought a step further when He said, "Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life." Not loving the world extends to our own lives as well. Jesus said if we love anything more than Him, we are not worthy of Him (Matthew 10:37-38).

In general, the term world in the Bible refers to the evil system controlled by Satan that leads us away from worship of God. John Calvin said, "The human heart is an idol factory." We can make idols out of anything. Any passionate desire of our hearts that is not put there by God for His glory can become an idol (1 Corinthians 10:31). Loving the world is idolatry (1 Corinthians 10:7, 14). So, while we are commanded to love the people of the world, we are to be wary of anything that competes with God for our highest affections.

https://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-love-the-world.html

So, the word world has several usages in the Bible.

 

[preacher4truth]

I was amazed to find out that not only Asia but the world worshiped Artemis.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. [Romans 1:8]

Paul, in his opening to the church in Rome, wrote this to them. Now, the gospel started being proclaimed in Jerusalem and then later after the Christians were being persecuted, and in this persecution, it caused them to leave there and go elsewhere. It was by this happening to them, they started spreading the gospel in other areas of the world. But at this time, ppl in modern day North, Central, and South America, Guam, the Fiji Islands, the Hawaiian Islands, Alaska, &c., they had not heard the gospel to centuries later. So, "whole world" here can not mean "everybody whoever lived" as many died w/o ever hearing it.

look, the mistake you continue to make is common to those who view salvation through the lens of taking verses out of context and trying to do everyone elses' thinking for them

this is why people object. the thing is, you do not know what we believe...as evidenced from what you say we believe

what is actually being said, is that Jesus died for the sins of EVERYONE...when you leave out choice. as you do, you FORCE the belief that others are in error viewing while not comprehending that in light of other scripture, it becomes clear that while Jesus died for the sins of the world, that in no way states or implies that everyone is saved

that seems to be a major argument in Calvinism and it shows a lack of comprehension of the rest of what scripture states concerning same and what we all here have been stating low these many weeks

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I was amazed to find out that not only Asia but the world worshiped Artemis.

What? Even the saved worshipped Artemis? “Say it ain’t so Joe. Say it ain’t so!”

 

[preacher4truth]

What? Even the saved worshipped Artemis? “Say it ain’t so Joe. Say it ain’t so!”

Yep. World means world.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

look, the mistake you continue to make is common to those who view salvation through the lens of taking verses out of context and trying to do everyone elses' thinking for them

this is why people object. the thing is, you do not know what we believe...as evidenced from what you say we believe

what is actually being said, is that Jesus died for the sins of EVERYONE...when you leave out choice. as you do, you FORCE the belief that others are in error viewing while not comprehending that in light of other scripture, it becomes clear that while Jesus died for the sins of the world, that in no way states or implies that everyone is saved

that seems to be a major argument in Calvinism and it shows a lack of comprehension of the rest of what scripture states concerning same and what we all here have been stating low these many weeks

I’ve never left choices out. But ppl can not make choices that are contrary to their nature. The lost hate God my friend. In their fallen unregenerate state they hate Him, are hostile with Him, at enmity with(have an ill-will towards) God. That’s the thrust of Paul’s argument in Romans 8:5-9.

Even God can not violate His own nature and do that which is contrary to it. God can not lie, steal, cheat, murder, &c., because that would violate His nature. The lost, in their unregenerate state, can not seek Him, as that is contrary to their nature. That’s why we say regeneration is first, and in this regeneration, the gifts of faith and repentance are given, are exercised by the recipient, and they are saved. It’s not God forcing(you guys love using that word) anyone to love Him, but Him giving him life, and they praise Him for it. And you act as if that’s a bad thing for Him to do.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Well, you are trying to prove mainly of what Thayer says. For your precaution, Thayer is not a bible believer. He is more a critic to the bible, a unitarianist. Your scriptural needs my further checking☺

My post ended with a couple of questions that you didn't answer.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.[1 Timothy 4:10]

Here we see another verse that gets a lot of attention. But look at how it was written by Paul. It says the living God is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. Now, if He is the Savior of all men, then why aren't all men saved? It literally says He is the Savior of all men. God "saved" Israel from Egypt's bondage. God "saved" Paul and those with him on the ship from certain destruction.

σωτήρ (sōtēr) has been used in the LXX as 'savior'.

Here's an article that will clear this up...

Understanding 1 Timothy 4:10 by Pastor John Samson

"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:10 (NKJ)
1 Tim. 4:10 is a verse that has had many interpretations. Here are the main three:

(1) The Universalist Interpretation - "God is the Savior of all men" means that all who have ever lived will be saved. This of course is contrary to all sound doctrine. If this was true, the rest of the verse would have no meaning whatsoever when it says "especially of those who believe."

(2) The Arminian Interpretation - God wants to save everyone but His desire is many times thwarted by the obsinate free will of man. God is able to save all men, but though all can be saved, only believers actually are. Certainly this is a popular view, but we must be clear that this is not what the text says. It does not say God wants to save, but that He actually saves: He is actually the Savior (in some sense) of all men.

(3) The Reformed Interpretation - God is the Savior of all men (in one sense) and especially of those who believe (in another sense). Let me be quick to say that this is not the only way reformed people have understood this verse, but I do believe this is the correct interpretation.

As we study the terms "salvation" and "Savior" we find many nuances - many different ways - God saves. The most important aspect of salvation is to be "saved" from the wrath of God (Romans 5:6-9; 1 Thess. 1:10), but salvation also includes the idea of rescue from enemy attack (Psalm 18:3); preservation (Matt. 8:25); physical healing (Matt. 9:22; James 5:15), etc. God "saved" not only Paul's life but everyone else on board ship with him in Acts 27:22, 31, 44. There are numerous ways that "salvation" takes place, but that's a complete Bible study all in itself.

When we study the word Savior (Greek: soter) in the LXX version (Greek translation of the Old Testament), we see the word used in a way that is far less grandiose than that which we generally think of the word. One example is Judge Othniel, who is called a Soter (Savior) or deliverer because he delivered the children of Israel from the hands of the king of Mesopotamia (Jud. 3:9). 2 Kings 13:5 talks of God giving Israel a "Savior" so that they were delivered from the hands of the Syrians. The judges of Israel were "saviors" as Nehemiah 9:27 states, "in the time of their suffering they cried out to you and you heard them from heaven, and according to your great mercies you gave them saviors who saved them from the hand of their enemies." (see also Psalm 36:6)

A great deal more could be said to substantiate this idea of a savior, but I think the above would make the point. God provides food (Psalm 104:27, 28), sunlight and rainfall (Matt. 5:45), as well as life and breath and all things (Acts 17:25), for "in Him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28). God preserves, delivers and supplies the needs of all who live in this world, and it is in this sense that He extends grace to them, saving them from destruction every day they live.

God is also gracious in allowing many to hear the proclamation of the Gospel.

All of these mercies are refered to as "common grace." It is common only in the sense that every living person gets it. This grace should actually amaze us because God is under no obligation whatsoever to give it to anyone. It can never be demanded. God sustains the lives of His sworn enemies, often for many decades! However, as wonderful as it is, it is only a temporal grace because all unregenerate people eventually die and will face the judgment (Heb. 9:27).

I believe then that 1 Timothy 4:10 teaches that we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior (Soter - preserver, sustainer, deliverer) of all people (showing mercy to all, each and every day they live), especially of those who believe (who receive full salvation from His wrath and everlasting life).
http://www.reformationtheology.com/2006/02/understanding_1_timothy_410_by.php

So, God is the Savior of all men in the sense that all partake of His grace to some extent via common grace. He gives them food, jobs, water, rain, vehicles, life, as both saved and lost partake of these. However, not all taste His saving grace, that grace which He bestows unto His elect.

who is the Savior of all men, if you take this literally, then all are saved, as it says He is(not might be, not possibly, mayhap) the Savior of all men.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.[1 Timothy 2]

Here is another verse that ppl take out of context. In verse 4 Paul wrote who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. If you stop right there, you miss the context. The following verses explain what Paul was saying. He mentions the High Priesthood of the Christ[Hebrews 7]. The OT high priest was a type of the Christ's High Priesthood. In the OT, the high priest represented the ppl before God. He was their intercessor. However, this high priest did not intercede for everyone, only God's ppl. It was for them he offered sacrifices that atoned for their sins. He did not intercede on the behalf of any other ppl than the ppl of God. Nowhere can we find the high priest interceding for the Egyptians, Philistines, Assyrians, Moabites, Edomites, Syrians, Babylonians, &c. Nowhere did God give them a sacrificial system that could atone for their sins. This was given solely to Israel[Romans 9:4-5]. The high priest interceded solely for God's ppl.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.[1 Tim. 2] Again, the mediator interceded on behalf of God's ppl. In the OT it was Israel. In the NT, the church, and both are comprised solely of God's elect.

Take that thought and bring it over into Hebrews 7. The same expressions are made. The High Priesthood of the Christ has Him interceding for the ppl of God, i.e. the elect.