Prophesying Forbidden

[presidente]

I used to be active on Christianforums, but they put up a new set of rules a while back. I did not agree and so I was inactive, maybe because I did not want to read a long page of rules at the time.

I thought about signing up again, and I came across this in the rules. I found this objectionable, "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) will be considered off-topic to all site forums."

I Corinthians 14 says '...covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues.' Prophesying is emphasized here over speaking in tongues, so it stands to reason that if we are to covet it, we are not to forbid it. Earlier of church meetings, he commanded, passing on what he emphatically stated were the commandments of the Lord, "Let the prophets speak... and 'For ye may all prophesy....' Paul commanded the Thessalonians 'Despise not prophesyings...'

My understanding is that prophesying generally involves speaking as moved/carried-along by the Holy Ghost as Peter described Old Testament prophecy. It could be other forms of communication as well like singing, even the use of musical instruments. Typically Old Testament prophets prophesied in the first person and sometimes preceded their quotes from God with 'Thus saith the Lord'. But Peter called David a prophet and not all of his prophetic Psalms follow this format. John even said Caiaphas prophesied when he said that one Man should die for the people. Caiaphas probably did not even know that he was prophesying.

If it is possible to prophesy-- to speak under the moving of the Spirit-- without even knowing it, why would one agree never to give prophetic utterance? The rule said personal prophesy, but many posts on the forum there are personal advice to an OP. So if the Spirit moves an individual to type out a piece of advice, it is forbidden to do so, but advice from one's own mind is allowed?

And what about those in the Reformed movement who define prophesying to be faithful preaching and teaching of the scriptures. If a pastor who posts faithfully uses the scriptures to instruct an individual with a bit of personal information, couldn't they consider that 'prophesying.' I see a distinction between prophesying and teaching in scripture, but if one sees this as prophesying, why would he agree to such a rule?

I wanted to send someone from ChristianForums a little note explaining that I would not agree to their terms for the reasons stated above, but I could not reach anyone without agreeing to the terms. So I thought I would vent a bit here since the topic might make a good topic for discussion.

Do denominations, pastors, or churches have the authority to override the 'commandments of the Lord' in I Corinthians 14 that permit prophesying? Should a Christian discussion board attempt to forbid individuals from speaking as moved by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Magenta]

I used to be active on Christianforums, but they put up a new set of rules a while back. I did not agree and so I was inactive, maybe because I did not want to read a long page of rules at the time.

I thought about signing up again, and I came across this in the rules. I found this objectionable, "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) will be considered off-topic to all site forums."

Is adding something "off topic" to any thread against the rules there? Or just uttering "personal prophecy"? It makes me wonder what caused this to be added to their rule listing. Were people in the habit of going about proclaiming "Thus saith the Lord..." and then adding some condemnatory epithet against fellow forum members?

 

[Dino246]

I could address several points you made, but I'll stick to one. The one element that a fellowship has that is absent here is pastoral oversight. Pastors and elders have the God-given authority to vet what is shared prophetically in their fellowships. They can guide both the speaker and the recipient in what to do with a message, including whether to toss it as 'not from God'. Without such oversight on an anonymous forum, there is no oversight, and even the moderators have little context in which to judge the reliability of the speaker and the life situation of the recipient. That all said, I think it is heavy-handed and somewhat cessationistic.

 

[presidente]

I could address several points you made, but I'll stick to one. The one element that a fellowship has that is absent here is pastoral oversight. Pastors and elders have the God-given authority to vet what is shared prophetically in their fellowships. They can guide both the speaker and the recipient in what to do with a message, including whether to toss it as 'not from God'. Without such oversight on an anonymous forum, there is no oversight, and even the moderators have little context in which to judge the reliability of the speaker and the life situation of the recipient. That all said, I think it is heavy-handed and somewhat cessationistic.

I am talking about that board, not this one. But I thought it might make an interesting topic here.

The ironic thing is that many cessationists believe that prophesying continues in the faithful preaching of the word. Calvin vaguely considered some types of preaching to be prophesying according to his I Corinthians commentary, so I think that may be the historical root for this understanding of prophesying.

If personal prophesying is forbidden, then how could a Calvinist cessationists who holds to that definition of 'prophesying' agree to the terms? He'd be violating the rules when he offered Biblical advice.

 

[oldethennew]

well, the 'false-prophets' in the 'scriptures are referred to as, 'the many', and they All CLAIM to be guided
by 'The Holy Spirit' -
it's almost comical, when someone says, that they have received 'a message from God',
when there is 'NO Super-Natural-Proof' -
we can definitely see why the 'Mods' of this site put a 'rule' down in order to 'minimize the 'nut-factor'!!!

 

[presidente]

well, the 'false-prophets' in the 'scriptures are referred to as, 'the many', and they All CLAIM to be guided
by 'The Holy Spirit' -
it's almost comical, when someone says, that they have received 'a message from God',
when there is 'NO Super-Natural-Proof' -
we can definitely see why the 'Mods' of this site put a 'rule' down in order to 'minimize the 'nut-factor'!!!

They could also forbid anyone from commenting on the scripture or praying, because there are plenty of nuts running around doing that, too. But is that a good thing, and should a Christian who is not a nut agree not to do that?

 

[posthuman]

[OFFTOPIC]


@presidente i just love how you are sticking to your principles over the clear text in the terms

in a similar way, i left 'worthy forums' after a short sojourn there because i am pretty sure Jesus told me to consider myself unworthy even after i have done "all" i am commanded to do. i couldn't in good conscious stick around with that title 'worthy forum member', and the denizens did not at all take well to my ideas on the subject when i tried to broach it..


[/OFFTOPIC]

 

[MattforJesus]

I used to be active on Christianforums, but they put up a new set of rules a while back. I did not agree and so I was inactive, maybe because I did not want to read a long page of rules at the time.

I thought about signing up again, and I came across this in the rules. I found this objectionable, "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) will be considered off-topic to all site forums."

I Corinthians 14 says '...covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues.' Prophesying is emphasized here over speaking in tongues, so it stands to reason that if we are to covet it, we are not to forbid it. Earlier of church meetings, he commanded, passing on what he emphatically stated were the commandments of the Lord, "Let the prophets speak... and 'For ye may all prophesy....' Paul commanded the Thessalonians 'Despise not prophesyings...'

My understanding is that prophesying generally involves speaking as moved/carried-along by the Holy Ghost as Peter described Old Testament prophecy. It could be other forms of communication as well like singing, even the use of musical instruments. Typically Old Testament prophets prophesied in the first person and sometimes preceded their quotes from God with 'Thus saith the Lord'. But Peter called David a prophet and not all of his prophetic Psalms follow this format. John even said Caiaphas prophesied when he said that one Man should die for the people. Caiaphas probably did not even know that he was prophesying.

If it is possible to prophesy-- to speak under the moving of the Spirit-- without even knowing it, why would one agree never to give prophetic utterance? The rule said personal prophesy, but many posts on the forum there are personal advice to an OP. So if the Spirit moves an individual to type out a piece of advice, it is forbidden to do so, but advice from one's own mind is allowed?

And what about those in the Reformed movement who define prophesying to be faithful preaching and teaching of the scriptures. If a pastor who posts faithfully uses the scriptures to instruct an individual with a bit of personal information, couldn't they consider that 'prophesying.' I see a distinction between prophesying and teaching in scripture, but if one sees this as prophesying, why would he agree to such a rule?

I wanted to send someone from ChristianForums a little note explaining that I would not agree to their terms for the reasons stated above, but I could not reach anyone without agreeing to the terms. So I thought I would vent a bit here since the topic might make a good topic for discussion.

Do denominations, pastors, or churches have the authority to override the 'commandments of the Lord' in I Corinthians 14 that permit prophesying? Should a Christian discussion board attempt to forbid individuals from speaking as moved by the Holy Spirit?

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I suppose we are all in trouble for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy.

But they mean private prophesy not covered in the Bible foretold us for they say personal prophesy.

For the truth is how do we believe them although it might be true, but some will sound not right, and some do like to exalt themselves as something special, and some can be mistaken, and it can cause division among people.

But the truth is all prophesy concerning the events of the world are already covered in the Bible that anybody can know.

So what will they tell us but God wants them to do a certain work, wants a certain Church to do a certain work, wants a certain person to tell people something, or tell us of some calamity going down to avoid, for a lot can be God relating how He wants them to work, and do His will.

But the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy for we say He is coming back in the future, and the Bible tells us of all future events to happen that anybody can know even the person in the back pew that people ignore.

They must think personal prophesy will cause too much fighting and division among the people for many will not believe and go against them, and many like to exalt themselves and say look at me I am a prophet.

Which one man on the internet, William Tapley, claims to be the 3rd eagle, or angel of the apocalypse, and co-prophet of the end times, and has some weird prophesies not covered in the Bible, and you could say he can be out in left field, and if he was on this site with those prophesies many people would go against him causing fighting.

Which some can get carried away and can be the imagination of their mind, and William can see a fish jump up out of the water and say it is prophesy, which he said that a football game was a prophesy of God depending on how the score came out, and many such things as that which it is plain he is getting carried away with it, but his mindset is wrong by him claiming he is the 3rd angel of the apocalypse and co-prophet of the end time.

So you can see how a person can get carried away with it, and cause problems on the site, and people arguing over whether it is true or not, and is it really edifying if it is a personal prophesy they had that only affects them.

If all we need is Jesus and His salvation what does their personal prophesy mean unless it is edifying within the boundaries of what the Bible already told us, or a testimony of something good in their life.

I understand the end time good and future events but I would not consider myself a prophet for it is in the Bible that anybody can see, but I do not relate anything outside of the Bible unless it is related to the Bible prophesy, and if I felt God wanted me to do a certain work, reach certain people I would not think to tell it as some great prophesy.

But we are all like the Old Testament prophets that we are warning the world to turn to the truth like the prophets in the Old Testament that told Israel to turn to the truth, and every saint has the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophesy.

If they tell something as prophesy and it is not in the Bible you can see how that will bring about a problem for how do you believe them, and they can get carried away with it.

It is like a person that is interested in finding the number 666 in the world, and it is here, and it is there, and places you would not think that it would be for they get carried away with it, for it is on a box of cheerios, and shaven in to the neighbor's dog, and a tree has it in the upper right branch of the west side of the tree between the 2 shrubs whose leaves point towards San Francisco, California.

If all things are to be done for the edifying of people, and if edifying for yourself keep it to yourself as speaking in tongues then prophesy is for the edifying of people, and if not then why tell it unless they want someone to say that is cool, and if prophesy is to edifying the Bible covers everything for edifying so it would be along the guidelines of the Bible.

Sometimes when people say a prophesy, or a vision, or a dream, I tend to think they are making it up.

 

[oldethennew]

last post,
we, hub and myself 'always' agree with The Word...

 

[presidente]

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I suppose we are all in trouble for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy.

But they mean private prophesy not covered in the Bible foretold us for they say personal prophesy.

For the truth is how do we believe them although it might be true, but some will sound not right, and some do like to exalt themselves as something special, and some can be mistaken, and it can cause division among people.

But the truth is all prophesy concerning the events of the world are already covered in the Bible that anybody can know.

So what will they tell us but God wants them to do a certain work, wants a certain Church to do a certain work, wants a certain person to tell people something, or tell us of some calamity going down to avoid, for a lot can be God relating how He wants them to work, and do His will.

But the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy for we say He is coming back in the future, and the Bible tells us of all future events to happen that anybody can know even the person in the back pew that people ignore.

They must think personal prophesy will cause too much fighting and division among the people for many will not believe and go against them, and many like to exalt themselves and say look at me I am a prophet.

In my case, I want to hold to 'the faith once delivered to the saints', so I am wary of extra Biblical doctrine.

One doctrine I cannot find in the Bible is that all future events are predicted in scripture. I cannot find in scripture the idea that all prophecies are in scripture. I see scripture encouraging believers to 'covet to prophesy', to 'despise not prophesying' and to allow prophesying in church. The man-made unbiblical doctrine that all prophesying is in Bible runs contrary to the instructions the Bible actually teaches about prophesying. The idea that there are no prophecies can easily lead to disobedience to 'covet to prophesy' and 'despise not prophesyings'--real teachings of scriptures that were not invented by later commentators.

I believe that the Holy Spirit can speak through individuals about future events, about individuals who are called to particular ministries, to impart spiritual gifts and to identify who is called to specific ministries. I also believe the Holy Spirit can communicate to an individual that he or she is supposed to do a specific ministry.

Which one man on the internet, William Tapley, claims to be the 3rd eagle, or angel of the apocalypse, and co-prophet of the end times, and has some weird prophesies not covered in the Bible, and you could say he can be out in left field, and if he was on this site with those prophesies many people would go against him causing fighting.

Which some can get carried away and can be the imagination of their mind,

I think I know who you are talking about. I saw a video or two of his many years ago. Seemed weird to me. Is he a Roman Catholic, too?

I don't know of any reason to think this fellow in particular is specifically named in book of Revelation, but some eschatologies (dispensational for example) require that there be two witnesses at the end of the age who prophesy, so prophesying should not be considered to be extinct for those who hold to this interpretation.

Interpreting 'Bible prophecy' and prophesying aren't exactly the same thing. Some people confuse them and call bad interpreters of Bible prophecy 'false prophets'. But it's not the same thing. I suppose there could be some overlap.

I noticed several years ago, that many people started using the word 'which' all over the place in an odd way which historically would be deemed improper. Your sentences here would be a good example of what I am talking about. Maybe it is a Gen Y thing. I think I've caught myself doing it a time or two.

 

[oldethennew]

mean while, we're leaving this most informative and sharing 'site', giving our thanks to Rob,
and are going home to play some maybe, Bob, or maybe Neil, Paul, Simon, Carol, Joan, Joe, Rod, Willie, etc.,...................................

 

[garee]

I am talking about that board, not this one. But I thought it might make an interesting topic here.

The ironic thing is that many cessationists believe that prophesying continues in the faithful preaching of the word. Calvin vaguely considered some types of preaching to be prophesying according to his I Corinthians commentary, so I think that may be the historical root for this understanding of prophesying.

If personal prophesying is forbidden, then how could a Calvinist cessationists who holds to that definition of 'prophesying' agree to the terms? He'd be violating the rules when he offered Biblical advice.

Prophesying declaring the gospel does continues in the faithful preaching of the word.

God is no longer moving men to bring any new prophecy as the tongue of God (God word) . The last chapter is still Revelation sealed with seven seals. Ending with a warning

What we do have is a private interpretation. It is our personal commentaries of the perfect of complete word. . . His interpretation. our private interpretation a a personal idea of what we hear and how we hear .

God has ceased from adding. But again we have the whole with no laws missing by whish we could know him more adequate . If any man says thus says the lord, or I had a vision, or dream, out of the body experience we are to believe not. We are commanded to study in order to seek the approval of the whole .Adding or subtracting is forbidden.

 

[stillness]

I have shared openly here the words the Lord gave me and no one has objected. It may be that objections are for those who entertain them, after all none of us are for real appart from the Love of God. "From now on we regard no man according to the flesh." Better to see only God as real, but we still have trouble in this world. Here are some words the Lord gave me when i was seeking to meet Him face to face:
Directions received in preparation for Journey:
"We will give ourselves to prayer."
Withhold nothing, take nothing, you have to be determined to succeed. Your prayer life must increase, content to participate in the mystery of God. Go, this is a time of prayer; it’s the only way you'll succeed. Keep yourself in the Love of God, don't give up: you’re not ready. Be still: know that I Am with you. "Wait on the Lord and He will strengthen your heart." Your prayer life has to extend in all areas of your life. What you do not realize is that the war is accomplished: it's not as simple as you getting the power, you have to Love the Truth. Give up your life, no more going back to idols.
Don't be afraid, above all surrender (give Him your fear). Don’t stay outside, don’t worry, Psalm 118. Be Faithful unto death. Seek Me more than your necessary food. Don’t fight against the Holy Ghost, give yourself to prayer. Give yourself to Him, you need to change, no longer desire earthly things, come and be reconciled. Make the most of your time, live in Prayer, don't want anything else. Don’t forget.

 

[Lanolin]

I used to be active on Christianforums, but they put up a new set of rules a while back. I did not agree and so I was inactive, maybe because I did not want to read a long page of rules at the time.

I thought about signing up again, and I came across this in the rules. I found this objectionable, "Personal Prophecy (prophetic utterance) will be considered off-topic to all site forums."

I Corinthians 14 says '...covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues.' Prophesying is emphasized here over speaking in tongues, so it stands to reason that if we are to covet it, we are not to forbid it. Earlier of church meetings, he commanded, passing on what he emphatically stated were the commandments of the Lord, "Let the prophets speak... and 'For ye may all prophesy....' Paul commanded the Thessalonians 'Despise not prophesyings...'

My understanding is that prophesying generally involves speaking as moved/carried-along by the Holy Ghost as Peter described Old Testament prophecy. It could be other forms of communication as well like singing, even the use of musical instruments. Typically Old Testament prophets prophesied in the first person and sometimes preceded their quotes from God with 'Thus saith the Lord'. But Peter called David a prophet and not all of his prophetic Psalms follow this format. John even said Caiaphas prophesied when he said that one Man should die for the people. Caiaphas probably did not even know that he was prophesying.

If it is possible to prophesy-- to speak under the moving of the Spirit-- without even knowing it, why would one agree never to give prophetic utterance? The rule said personal prophesy, but many posts on the forum there are personal advice to an OP. So if the Spirit moves an individual to type out a piece of advice, it is forbidden to do so, but advice from one's own mind is allowed?

And what about those in the Reformed movement who define prophesying to be faithful preaching and teaching of the scriptures. If a pastor who posts faithfully uses the scriptures to instruct an individual with a bit of personal information, couldn't they consider that 'prophesying.' I see a distinction between prophesying and teaching in scripture, but if one sees this as prophesying, why would he agree to such a rule?

I wanted to send someone from ChristianForums a little note explaining that I would not agree to their terms for the reasons stated above, but I could not reach anyone without agreeing to the terms. So I thought I would vent a bit here since the topic might make a good topic for discussion.

Do denominations, pastors, or churches have the authority to override the 'commandments of the Lord' in I Corinthians 14 that permit prophesying? Should a Christian discussion board attempt to forbid individuals from speaking as moved by the Holy Spirit?

Thats a bit strange, i dont go on that forum anymore so couldnt tell you why they would make that rule.

Maybe its to do with the 'personal' aspect of it that you meant to test the prophecies or confirm it by taking turns. Check corinthians on that one. When you prophesy isnt it meant to be you say what God wants you to say and it maybe a verse from scripture its not something you make up yourself and then just tack on God says this.

Anyway there doesnt seem to be any restriction on this particular forum. The other forum may be having problems with false prophets who are teaching something opposite to Gods word yet claiming it is so.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I used to be active on Christianforums, but they put up a new set of rules a while back. I did not agree and so I was inactive, maybe because I did not want to read a long page of rules at the time.

You could call CF "Christian Fascists". They do not want the truth on their forum as I have personally experienced.

My understanding is that prophesying generally involves speaking as moved/carried-along by the Holy Ghost as Peter described Old Testament prophecy.

Your understanding is somewhat deficient. Prophecy means speaking or writing by divine revelation, which has the authority and equivalency of the Word of God -- Scripture.

Before the New Testament was completed there were prophets and prophesying within the churches. However with the completing of the NT prophecy came to an end as prophesied by Paul in 1 Cor 13:8-10: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

"That which is perfect" can also be translated as "that which is complete". But Charismatics would rather read this as "He who is perfect" and apply it to Christ at the Rapture. Which is patently false. At the end of Revelation, John made it crystal clear that there would be no more genuine prophecies.

 

[Dino246]

... Without such oversight on an anonymous forum, there is no oversight, ...

Wow... I need to proofread more carefully.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

where to begin....where to begin

I've seen so called personal prophecies being handed out on CC but I am no fan of the practice

between that and all dream interpreters at large, if it can go wrong it probably will

it is my understanding that prophecy in the NT is mainly the forthtelling of scripture and not the foretelling so many would like to lay claim to

and then we have the word of knowledge mixed in and before you know it, someone labels themself a prophet

Do denominations, pastors, or churches have the authority to override the 'commandments of the Lord' in I Corinthians 14 that permit prophesying? Should a Christian discussion board attempt to forbid individuals from speaking as moved by the Holy Spirit?

what they do have, as applied to congregations, is the authority to override, are the false prophecies and personal fortune teller prophets running around but too many encourage the practice of having folks line up for 'a word from the Lord'

this site if far more liberal in what it allows but then it is not a church. at times it really is user beware

FYI, there have been some rogue prophet types that have appeared from time to time here at CC, mostly blowing smoke and dire warnings about how everyone is going to hell etc etc

I remember 2 that worked in tandem way back....one of them was quite in favor of telling people they were now cursed because they called out the falseness of their renderings

my bottom line would be God save us from the false prophets and grant discernement to know the difference

IMO, most people running around today with a certificate of propheting in their hot little hands are dillusional

all that being said, I am not a cessationist, but I have enough experience under the belt to state the above with no regret or fear of offending anyone

if you consider yourself a prophet and you are always offended or want retribution on people who don't think you are actually a prophet, or you think peope should fear you, you may have a lot to learn if God has actually called you to be one OR, the more likely possibility, you are just full of yourself

this and worship leader (note that is not listed in spiritual gifts) are the 2 most abused giftings going the rounds these days

 

[7seasrekeyed]

and then we have opinions, that can have godly influence

even Paul noted the difference

 

[7seasrekeyed]

They could also forbid anyone from commenting on the scripture or praying, because there are plenty of nuts running around doing that, too. But is that a good thing, and should a Christian who is not a nut agree not to do that?

you might be surprised, but then again maybe not, at the number of people who in ignorance of both the word and just how spiritual gifts work in general, who run around looking for someone to 'give them a word' rather than cultivate their own relationship with God and therefore be able to find direction from the Bible and be led by the Holy Spirit

we can always comment on scripture because no one here wrote it...although to be sure, some think they are the only ones who understand it

and there are at least a couple of people here, not pointing at a denom but individuals, who have the weirdest take on the meaning of just about anything in scripture.

mind you, people have been known to have said 'God showed me this or that' in order to get around the fact the Bible is not their personal property

I tell you what. personally, I would run far and fast getting away from someone who gets in your face and tells you that 'God told me to tell you'...trademark of those who wish to control through an unholy spirit

 

[notuptome]

We still have 1 Cor 13:8.

For the cause of Christ
Roger