I hate eternal hell

[Roughsoul1991]

Well I am a heretic. But so was Jesus to the jews right? In fact being on here has indicated to me that I,m probably not "Christian"; in that it seems to be largely about accepting certain doctrines, rather than simply loving God and ones neighbour. It maybe that my time on this site is coming to an end. So I will take my chances with those I love, mainly non-Christian, and let God judge us. If they are headed for hell anyway, then I don't want to go to heaven without them.

The answer isnt to join in but to evangelize so they also become saved. Otherwise you will all be either eternally damned or destroyed according which one is true. That isnt very loving on your part or helps your friends. Your basically like okay I see the cliff, I see my friends about to drive off the cliff, you have the means to stop them, you stop them but instead of saving them, you jump in the back seat and drive off with them.

If you believe the words of Jesus to be true then you should follow Jesus and not the world.

 

[Dibby53]

There are many reports of people who do claim to rem

The answer isnt to join in but to evangelize so they also become saved. Otherwise you will all be either eternally damned or destroyed according which one is true. That isnt very loving on your part or helps your friends. Your basically like okay I see the cliff, I see my friends about to drive off the cliff, you have the means to stop them, you stop them but instead of saving them, you jump in the back seat and drive off with them.

If you believe the words of Jesus to be true then you should follow Jesus and not the world.

You do know that people have their own thoughts and feelings? Not everyone is going to believe the things that you believe. And you have no idea or experience of the love that I share with my friends. So please don't judge the quality of my love and help I may give my friends. I love them enough to respect their decisions, thoughts and beliefs. It is none of my business unless they invite a discussion.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

There are many reports of people who do claim to rem


You do know that people have their own thoughts and feelings? Not everyone is going to believe the things that you believe. And you have no idea or experience of the love that I share with my friends. So please don't judge the quality of my love and help I may give my friends. I love them enough to respect their decisions, thoughts and beliefs. It is none of my business unless they invite a discussion.

I am actually very hesitant on how I treat people's beliefs. Two categories. Dangerous and not dangerous related to soul salvation.

If it is dangerous then it will be refuted. If it isn't dangerous then debate is fun but ultimately I wont be as stern and serious.

You said you would take your chances with non Christians and let God judge you. Sounds like you are willing to walk away because the Bible doesn't fit what you want it to say.

But what does feelings have to do with truth. If Jesus truly was who he said he was, and said everything recorded then feelings do not matter. Only truth matters.

Tolerance isnt loving. Especially if you know it will bring them harm. Jesus didn't only teach when invited. Paul didn't evangelize when only invited.

If you know that Jesus is true and the events of Jesus is true then where else will you go? The only truth is found in God. Only salvation is found in His Son.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I,m not so sure. I,m a spiritual being. So I may well have had loved ones before. I,m not adverse to reincarnation.
Many of the non Christians I know are very kind. So they are not in darkness. Any more than Christians I know.

Hello Dibby53,

I say this with all love and sincerity. From what I have seen from your posts, including this one, you are not believing in what the word of God has to say. Everything seems to be based on your feelings and emotions and not in the truth of God's word.

For example: you say that you are not adverse to reincarnation, which by the way is a Hindu belief, yet the word of God says "man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment." There is no such thing as coming back in the form of an animal or another human, over and over again, which is what the belief of reincarnation is.

You also said that "Many of the non Christians I know are very kind. So they are not in darkness." I have made known to you in another post that we are not saved by being kind or performing any good works. We are saved by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us by the shedding of His blood. Anyone who is not in Christ, is in darkness because they have not believed in Him and they therefore are still in their sins and remain condemned, until or unless they receive Christ. If we could be saved by performing good works or being kind, then Christ would have died for nothing. Jesus said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through Me." That means that you can't inherit the kingdom of God except through faith in Christ.

Scripture states that "there is none righteous, no not one. All have sinned and all fall short of God's righteousness. It is faith in Christ that reconciles us to God, not good works or acts of kindness. Those characteristics result from faith and the indwelling of the Spirit, but they do not and cannot save a person by performing them.

The thinking of the world seems to be that if they do good works they will some how tip the scales and end up in a good place. This is a lie! Jesus said "wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it, in comparison to the small gate and the narrow road that leads to life, where only a few find it. Regarding being kind, consider the scripture below:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

My advise to you is, to read the word of God and believe what it says and not what you want it to say.

 

[Noose]

Wrong.

What about the children? How does a one year old receive Christ to be saved? now that we know we are all sinners.

While most of the things you write are true, they don't mean what you mean and your understanding of faith in Christ is not true.

 

[Desdichado]

Well. Martin Luther hated certain aspects of God until he saw the bigger picture in the fullness of scripture.

I think it's okay to be honest with your feelings on certain things as long as you temper your feelings with prayerful perspective.

 

[Whispered]

I hate the thought of eternal hell. Do I need to believe in this to be a Christian?

No, you do not.
You might find this of interest.
Hell – Part 3: How & When The Idea of Eternal Torment Invaded Church Doctrine

 

[Magenta]

I'm sorry to hear you may not be on here soon Dibby. I think your posts are full of intelligence, wisdom and compassion, & it would be a shame to see you go.

I too have prayed lately and I reckon God is telling me to move on, or move in a new direction.
I don't know if this is the site for me either - I've asked for my account to be deleted from the moderators, and nobody even bothered to reply to my request.
I have enjoyed being on here and met some lovely people, but the Christian compassion and help part is lacking with some people on here - their hatred & contempt for people who they think are 'lesser' beings than them, or who they deem as 'ignorant of God's word' is almost palpable. Newbies are HERE TO LEARN - we want to be taught and made wise, and share in God's / Jesus love and compassion, not to be talked down to in a rude & derogatory manner sometimes, like we are nothing and nobody in this world.
You can teach others with loving patience, good manners, compassion and kindness.
I hope you stay on Dibby, but you gotta do what you gotta do. If you do go, all my best wishes for the future hey
PS: we all add our own unique blend of cultures, knowledge and wisdom on here - and I think that is just fantastic.

Dearest Tasha… I am saddened to hear that you are thinking of leaving us, and hope you will reconsider and even change your mind on this, for your wisdom, knowledge, understanding, experience, and heart are a wonderful asset to all of us here and will be greatly missed if you leave

 

[morefaithrequired]

I hate the thought of eternal hell. Do I need to believe in this to be a Christian?

I dont even like short term Hell. But maybe in Eternal Hell you slowly get used to the pain. I mean you can only scream for so long. After I while just chill out, light a cigarrette and chat to other sufferers...."what are you in for? social media narcissism? me too...ouch"

 

[Dibby53]

I dont even like short term Hell. But maybe in Eternal Hell you slowly get used to the pain. I mean you can only scream for so long. After I while just chill out, light a cigarrette and chat to other sufferers...."what are you in for? social media narcissism? me too...ouch"

Yes. No one who is sensitive and deeply contemplates the doctrine of eternal damnation can glibly say, "If you don't believe, you are going to hell forever". Does God need to threaten us to get us to love him?! I mean is that really the "good news" that Christ came to proclaim?? "I,ve got some great news guys. God really loves you with all his heart. But if you don't believe me the majority of you will suffer agony......forever and forever!" I know we have just had Halloween, but really who needs a horror story when you've got that??
It seems like the fundamentalists have gotten hold of the love of God and turned it into sadism.

 

[Dibby53]

Hello Dibby53,

I say this with all love and sincerity. From what I have seen from your posts, including this one, you are not believing in what the word of God has to say. Everything seems to be based on your feelings and emotions and not in the truth of God's word.

For example: you say that you are not adverse to reincarnation, which by the way is a Hindu belief, yet the word of God says "man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment." There is no such thing as coming back in the form of an animal or another human, over and over again, which is what the belief of reincarnation is.

You also said that "Many of the non Christians I know are very kind. So they are not in darkness." I have made known to you in another post that we are not saved by being kind or performing any good works. We are saved by trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us by the shedding of His blood. Anyone who is not in Christ, is in darkness because they have not believed in Him and they therefore are still in their sins and remain condemned, until or unless they receive Christ. If we could be saved by performing good works or being kind, then Christ would have died for nothing. Jesus said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through Me." That means that you can't inherit the kingdom of God except through faith in Christ.

Scripture states that "there is none righteous, no not one. All have sinned and all fall short of God's righteousness. It is faith in Christ that reconciles us to God, not good works or acts of kindness. Those characteristics result from faith and the indwelling of the Spirit, but they do not and cannot save a person by performing them.

The thinking of the world seems to be that if they do good works they will some how tip the scales and end up in a good place. This is a lie! Jesus said "wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it, in comparison to the small gate and the narrow road that leads to life, where only a few find it. Regarding being kind, consider the scripture below:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

My advise to you is, to read the word of God and believe what it says and not what you want it to say.

Jesus was interested in good works. But his take on it was the motivation behind what you do, not the outward action. He said to Zacchaeus the tax collector " Today salvation has come " Why? Because he promised to pay back those he had wronged, but more importantly he had had a change of heart. Jesus praised the pagan, occupier of Israel the Roman Centurian for his faith. He didn't ask him to say the sinners prayer and believe a load of doctrines.
Jesus used the example of a Samaritan heretic to show that actions motivated by love and compassion are indeed what God requires.....otherwise why use the example?
Jesus said that a "good tree brings forth good fruit". Fruit surely is what we DO, motivated by love.
The prostitute woman who anoints Jesus with perfume is forgiven. Why? Because of what she did motivated by the deepest love.
The people who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery were wrong in Jesus eyes. Why? Because their motivation was self righteous.

In fact Jesus is nothing like fundamentalist or evangelical Christians. He didn't come to start a new religion. In fact I think alot of Christians would get a great big, "Woe unto you" speech from Jesus. For they have taken the love of God and hidden it away in doctrines.

 

[morefaithrequired]

Yes. No one who is sensitive and deeply contemplates the doctrine of eternal damnation can glibly say, "If you don't believe, you are going to hell forever". Does God need to threaten us to get us to love him?! I mean is that really the "good news" that Christ came to proclaim?? "I,ve got some great news guys. God really loves you with all his heart. But if you don't believe me the majority of you will suffer agony......forever and forever!" I know we have just had Halloween, but really who needs a horror story when you've got that??
It seems like the fundamentalists have gotten hold of the love of God and turned it into sadism.

All the party animals are in Hell. Thats where the best parties are.

 

[Noose]

Jesus was interested in good works. But his take on it was the motivation behind what you do, not the outward action. He said to Zacchaeus the tax collector " Today salvation has come " Why? Because he promised to pay back those he had wronged, but more importantly he had had a change of heart. Jesus praised the pagan, occupier of Israel the Roman Centurian for his faith. He didn't ask him to say the sinners prayer and believe a load of doctrines.
Jesus used the example of a Samaritan heretic to show that actions motivated by love and compassion are indeed what God requires.....otherwise why use the example?
Jesus said that a "good tree brings forth good fruit". Fruit surely is what we DO, motivated by love.
The prostitute woman who anoints Jesus with perfume is forgiven. Why? Because of what she did motivated by the deepest love.
The people who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery were wrong in Jesus eyes. Why? Because their motivation was self righteous.

In fact Jesus is nothing like fundamentalist or evangelical Christians. He didn't come to start a new religion. In fact I think alot of Christians would get a great big, "Woe unto you" speech from Jesus. For they have taken the love of God and hidden it away in doctrines.

That's why i said, it's not about Christianity or not.

James 1:27Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

[Dibby53]

That's why i said, it's not about Christianity or not.

James 1:27Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

I agree Noose. Thanks for your response. I like the quote you give from James. Do share more of your views.

 

[Noose]

I agree Noose. Thanks for your response. I like the quote you give from James. Do share more of your views.

If the whole bible was to be summarized, it would be a command, "love one another". Love for one another is all that matters.

The one that loves has fulfilled all the requirements there is; The one that loves has known God, trusts in Christ, believes in Christ, Has faith in Christ, obeys God (love beareth all things)- even though they don't understand.

1 Cor 13:7(love) It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

And with God, it is the opposite. A child born today has 100% faith in God and knows God (even though they don't understand) whereas the wise and the most learned have 0% faith in God and knowledge in God even though they think they know.

Matt 11:25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yes. No one who is sensitive and deeply contemplates the doctrine of eternal damnation can glibly say, "If you don't believe, you are going to hell forever". Does God need to threaten us to get us to love him?! I mean is that really the "good news" that Christ came to proclaim?? "I,ve got some great news guys. God really loves you with all his heart. But if you don't believe me the majority of you will suffer agony......forever and forever!" I know we have just had Halloween, but really who needs a horror story when you've got that??
It seems like the fundamentalists have gotten hold of the love of God and turned it into sadism.

Does God need to threaten us to get us to love him?! I mean is that really the "good news" that Christ came to proclaim??

Yes, the good news is in fact that Jesus came to take upon Himself the punishment that everyone deserves because of sin, by taking upon Himself God's wrath that every believer deserves and suffered death in our place. Therefore, for those who believe, the debt has been paid and God's wrath no longer rests upon us. And since the reward for sin which is death, has been satisfied, believers have eternal life. Take a good look at the following scripture:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

Everyone quotes the first part of the scripture, which is the good news. However, they seem to leave off the second part which states "but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." So, the good news is for those who believe, but it is dire news for those who do not believe.

What you are not understanding nor taking into consideration is what king David understood in that, after he had committed adultery with Bathsheba and then had her husband Uriah murdered, he said to God "against You alone have I sinned." When we sin, it is against God eternal, Holy and Righteous and this is why the consequences are the most severe.

The Scriptures state that "the reward for sin is death" which is conscious existence in separation from the presence of God in the lake of fire. And that "unless there is shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins."

In the end all sin must be accounted for. For those who have faith in Christ, He was held accountable for their sins. For those who reject Him and die in that state, they will be held accountable for their own sins. And because they will have not believed in Him, they will have no righteous blood to cover their sins.

Have you never read "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom?" Jesus Himself said the following to His disciples and to all believers:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Taking up one's cross daily, means that we remain committed to Christ on a daily basis, even in the face of persecution and the threat of death.

I know we have just had Halloween, but really who needs a horror story when you've got that??

For those in Christ, it should not be a horror story, because when we believed in Christ we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God so that His wrath no longer rests upon us. However, it will be a horror story for those who die in their sins because they have no covering for their sins. Think of it as a legal process. The consequences for the crime is set and will not be altered. God the Father is the judge and Jesus is the defense attorney. For those who believe in Him, the debt has been paid by Him and He stands in defense of those who believed in Him. And since the payment has already been satisfied, those who believed are free of all charges, acquitted. But for those who did not have faith, they are guilty for their crimes and the judge is going to throw the book at them. For Jesus said " men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken." Every sin will be accounted for.

Dibby53, you need to wake up and accept the truth, because from what I can gather from your posts, you seem to be trusting in your own beliefs and emotions and most likely from the books written by false teachers, instead of believing in what the word of God has to say regarding these issues.

 

[Ahwatukee]

All the party animals are in Hell. Thats where the best parties are.

These are not the words of a believer in Christ! Hell (separation from God in the lake of fire) will be anything but a party.

From what you have posted here, I would say that your forum name is accurate.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Jesus was interested in good works. But his take on it was the motivation behind what you do, not the outward action. He said to Zacchaeus the tax collector " Today salvation has come " Why? Because he promised to pay back those he had wronged, but more importantly he had had a change of heart. Jesus praised the pagan, occupier of Israel the Roman Centurian for his faith. He didn't ask him to say the sinners prayer and believe a load of doctrines.
Jesus used the example of a Samaritan heretic to show that actions motivated by love and compassion are indeed what God requires.....otherwise why use the example?
Jesus said that a "good tree brings forth good fruit". Fruit surely is what we DO, motivated by love.
The prostitute woman who anoints Jesus with perfume is forgiven. Why? Because of what she did motivated by the deepest love.
The people who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery were wrong in Jesus eyes. Why? Because their motivation was self righteous.

In fact Jesus is nothing like fundamentalist or evangelical Christians. He didn't come to start a new religion. In fact I think alot of Christians would get a great big, "Woe unto you" speech from Jesus. For they have taken the love of God and hidden it away in doctrines.

All of those examples you posted above have one thing in common, they had faith in Jesus. Love by itself and good works will not provide forgiveness of sins and eternal life. No one said anything about having to say the sinners prayer. You're just attempting to confuse the issue with your words. Salvation is obtained by faith in Jesus, period! No one will be acquitted of their sins through charity and good works. To be clear, all of those who are doing go works but have not trusted in Christ as the One who provided salvation for them, will die in their sins. I have already told you what the unbelievers state is with God, that "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags." I have also post that we are saved by grace through faith and not by our own efforts. It is the gift of God and not by works that we are saved. That includes the loving grandma's who bake cookies for their grandchildren. Unless a person believe in Christ he cannot be saved.

However, for those who are in Christ, for their good works Jesus said that we are building up our treasures in heaven, because we do them to bring glory to God. But a non believer doing those things is not saved, nor does he have eternal life. One who does not believe in Christ can do all the works of charity that he wants and will still not enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus spoke of these people who trust in their own efforts:

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

In the scripture above, there will be those who will have trusted in their own good works. When they find out that they cannot enter into the kingdom of God, their own words "did we not" reveals why they will not be able to enter in. For it demonstrates that they will have been trusting in their own works, instead of trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for them. By their response, they were working for their salvation. The will of the Father is to believe in the One whom He sent, Jesus Christ.

 

[morefaithrequired]

From what you have posted here, I would say that your forum name is accurate.

Hell, you might be right!

 

[Dibby53]

Yes, the good news is in fact that Jesus came to take upon Himself the punishment that everyone deserves because of sin, by taking upon Himself God's wrath that every believer deserves and suffered death in our place. Therefore, for those who believe, the debt has been paid and God's wrath no longer rests upon us. And since the reward for sin which is death, has been satisfied, believers have eternal life. Take a good look at the following scripture:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

Everyone quotes the first part of the scripture, which is the good news. However, they seem to leave off the second part which states "but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." So, the good news is for those who believe, but it is dire news for those who do not believe.

What you are not understanding nor taking into consideration is what king David understood in that, after he had committed adultery with Bathsheba and then had her husband Uriah murdered, he said to God "against You alone have I sinned." When we sin, it is against God eternal, Holy and Righteous and this is why the consequences are the most severe.

The Scriptures state that "the reward for sin is death" which is conscious existence in separation from the presence of God in the lake of fire. And that "unless there is shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins."

In the end all sin must be accounted for. For those who have faith in Christ, He was held accountable for their sins. For those who reject Him and die in that state, they will be held accountable for their own sins. And because they will have not believed in Him, they will have no righteous blood to cover their sins.

Have you never read "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom?" Jesus Himself said the following to His disciples and to all believers:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Taking up one's cross daily, means that we remain committed to Christ on a daily basis, even in the face of persecution and the threat of death.



For those in Christ, it should not be a horror story, because when we believed in Christ we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God so that His wrath no longer rests upon us. However, it will be a horror story for those who die in their sins because they have no covering for their sins. Think of it as a legal process. The consequences for the crime is set and will not be altered. God the Father is the judge and Jesus is the defense attorney. For those who believe in Him, the debt has been paid by Him and He stands in defense of those who believed in Him. And since the payment has already been satisfied, those who believed are free of all charges, acquitted. But for those who did not have faith, they are guilty for their crimes and the judge is going to throw the book at them. For Jesus said " men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken." Every sin will be accounted for.

Dibby53, you need to wake up and accept the truth, because from what I can gather from your posts, you seem to be trusting in your own beliefs and emotions and most likely from the books written by false teachers, instead of believing in what the word of God has to say regarding these issues.

I don't agree with your interpretation of things at all. I don't think Jesus came to save us from God the Father, but from the power of sin.
You seem to have imbibed a very Calvinist view of things. I think the wrath of God is a metaphor for the mess that sin makes of our lives without his love. I don't think that God is angry like a human being. Since we know that God is Love ( not like love, or does some loving things.....but Love itself) then everything that flows from his nature flows from his love. Since sin blocks his love in our lives then we can often feel like we are abandoned, or under his displeasure ( My God my God why hast thou forsaken me?"). But Christ takes the worst we can do and breaks the power of sin ( Father forgive them they know not what they do) . He opens the way to God by saving us from sin. He doesn't need to save us from our heavenly Father!!

Christ's victory is total and complete. ALL will eventually find their way into God's family, because they are forgiven! ( Father forgive them they know not what they do) Repentence is turning back to God like the prodigal son to receive that love and forgiveness. Some souls may well need an aionian time of purifying from sin in a hellish place ( fire is a metaphor for purification) .....but the victory of God is total, not.partial. God will eventually be "All in all". Don't take the Love of God and hide it away in doctrines of judgement and condemnation. Yes maybe those who do not heed the message of Christ are condemned......but they are condemned to carry on living the way they are, without the Love of God.....hell......just look at the world without the love of God....go to Syria, or Iraq.

This view of God was widely believed in the first centuries after Christ......so it is not simply how I feel emotionally today. I have put alot of thought, contemplation and research into this. You may not agree. Fair enough. But please don't assume that you have a monopoly on absolute truth and that everyone else is deceived.

I hope that God will guide all of us into his truth.......peace to you Ahwatukee......