Is unconditional election biblical?
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Ah, but you see, therein lies the rub.
According to Calvinism and the TULIP formula that pertains to Reformed Theology, every person is born totally depraved and thus are unable to in and of themselves become saved.
Calvinism was invented to refute Pelagianism. Pelagianism, teaches that humans are capable of finding Christ, of becoming righteous.
Calvinism teaches that God created totally depraved damned people incapable of loving Him.
Before that however, Calvinism also says that same God elected to let a predetermined number of people into His grace and to have faith. Not of their own choosing mind you. No, but because God makes them to have faith after He brings them into His grace against their will. Because as the Totally Depraved they cannot choose God at all.
So what of King David? When he said, “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” (Psalm 139:14) ? What of Genesis, when after God created everything He looked upon it and it was good?
He made the future human race to be totally depraved incapable of loving Him, and He judged that good?
Calvinism! Reformed Theology says, it's all God! God made all humans Totally Depraved after He decided He'd do that but set aside a select number, "elect" number, upon which He'd force His grace and then force to have faith.
Not at all what the Gospel of Jesus sounds like is it? That's because Calvinism is Gnosticism refashioned to appear as Christian doctrine!
"Original Sin"? Never was in the church until Augustine started the teaching!
By one man sin entered the world! The scripture doesn't say by one man all future people born will bear that man's sins.
If you can, take the time to read this one page article. Long, but so worth the time. Especially if we plan or have shared any time in threads of this nature refuting Calvinism and Reformed Theology.
This article will open your eyes to what you are facing when you meet a Calvinist that idolizes John Calvin's theology. They're actually defending what was first known as, Gnosticism!
Especially as pertains to Calvinism's definition of sin.
(Excerpted out of its order in the article below) "
"God doesn’t make garbage. He doesn’t make depraved, demented beings who are incapable of loving Him. Why would He?
God only makes perfect things. God created us to be perfect, 100% valuable, 100% worthy of love. We are not born sinners. We choose to be sinners through our actions. We become guilty and deserving of death because we choose to be.
How sad and humbling is this truth! Every person who has ever come of age – with the exception of Jesus – has chosen sin. “There are none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10).
The biblical view of sin is that sin is action. Sin is not a curse that spreads from one person to another against their will. Sin is not a disease we inherited against our will – if it were, we couldn’t be held responsible for it, we would be victims rather than perpetuators. The biblical view places the blame for sin on us, not on God. The Calvinist view teaches that God makes people evil with no ability to do good, and then punishes them for being that way!"
Three Arguments Against Total Depravity
"...Calvinists rely solely on their interpretation of Paul’s writings to provide biblical support for total depravity. If Paul actually taught total depravity, why did Paul’s own disciples and those who came shortly after him strongly deny the doctrine?
There is no question that Paul teaches the depravity of fallen man. We are “dead” (guilty, deserving of death, as good as dead) in our sins. We are “slaves to sin” (it is the natural inclination of our flesh). There is no question that we have a sinful nature – the issue is whether or not it makes us completely incapable of loving God or obeying His will. All of the early church fathers agree that man has the ability within himself to obey and love God.
The only “church father” who believed anything close to total depravity is Augustine, though he did not develop the doctrine as far as Calvin did. Augustine is responsible for introducing the idea of original sin into the church, a doctrine that did not exist in orthodox Christianity before him, though it did exist in Gnoticism.
After reading those excerpts I hope it puts into proper perspective what Sackcloth said here:
Calvinism is a systematic theology(soteriology) of how God saves ppl.
Calvinism was invented as a response to Pelagianism because John Calvin thought Pelagianism was infecting the Catholic church! Calvinisms teachings also have their it's roots in Gnosticism.
Gnosticism does not save!
Ah, but you see, therein lies the rub.
According to Calvinism and the TULIP formula that pertains to Reformed Theology, every person is born totally depraved and thus are unable to in and of themselves become saved.
Calvinism was invented to refute Pelagianism. Pelagianism, teaches that humans are capable of finding Christ, of becoming righteous.
Calvinism teaches that God created totally depraved damned people incapable of loving Him.
Before that however, Calvinism also says that same God elected to let a predetermined number of people into His grace and to have faith. Not of their own choosing mind you. No, but because God makes them to have faith after He brings them into His grace against their will. Because as the Totally Depraved they cannot choose God at all.
So what of King David? When he said, “I am fearfully and wonderfully made” (Psalm 139:14) ? What of Genesis, when after God created everything He looked upon it and it was good?
He made the future human race to be totally depraved incapable of loving Him, and He judged that good?
Calvinism! Reformed Theology says, it's all God! God made all humans Totally Depraved after He decided He'd do that but set aside a select number, "elect" number, upon which He'd force His grace and then force to have faith.
Not at all what the Gospel of Jesus sounds like is it? That's because Calvinism is Gnosticism refashioned to appear as Christian doctrine!
"Original Sin"? Never was in the church until Augustine started the teaching!
By one man sin entered the world! The scripture doesn't say by one man all future people born will bear that man's sins.
If you can, take the time to read this one page article. Long, but so worth the time. Especially if we plan or have shared any time in threads of this nature refuting Calvinism and Reformed Theology.
This article will open your eyes to what you are facing when you meet a Calvinist that idolizes John Calvin's theology. They're actually defending what was first known as, Gnosticism!
Especially as pertains to Calvinism's definition of sin.
(Excerpted out of its order in the article below) "
"God doesn’t make garbage. He doesn’t make depraved, demented beings who are incapable of loving Him. Why would He?
God only makes perfect things. God created us to be perfect, 100% valuable, 100% worthy of love. We are not born sinners. We choose to be sinners through our actions. We become guilty and deserving of death because we choose to be.
How sad and humbling is this truth! Every person who has ever come of age – with the exception of Jesus – has chosen sin. “There are none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10).
The biblical view of sin is that sin is action. Sin is not a curse that spreads from one person to another against their will. Sin is not a disease we inherited against our will – if it were, we couldn’t be held responsible for it, we would be victims rather than perpetuators. The biblical view places the blame for sin on us, not on God. The Calvinist view teaches that God makes people evil with no ability to do good, and then punishes them for being that way!"
Three Arguments Against Total Depravity
"...Calvinists rely solely on their interpretation of Paul’s writings to provide biblical support for total depravity. If Paul actually taught total depravity, why did Paul’s own disciples and those who came shortly after him strongly deny the doctrine?
There is no question that Paul teaches the depravity of fallen man. We are “dead” (guilty, deserving of death, as good as dead) in our sins. We are “slaves to sin” (it is the natural inclination of our flesh). There is no question that we have a sinful nature – the issue is whether or not it makes us completely incapable of loving God or obeying His will. All of the early church fathers agree that man has the ability within himself to obey and love God.
“The Christian church in the 2nd century AD had nothing resembling the doctrine of original sin as many post-Reformation Christians know it today. The Apostolic Fathers had little to say on the subject… Only Barnabas of the Apostolic Fathers references the Fall, and he believed that children were born sinless. The authors of this early period believed universally that children were born innocent of the sin of Adam, that people incur guilt only for their own sins, and that every person has the God-given power of free will to do good or evil…. These early Christians actually understood the original Christian message well, but many modern scholars misunderstand it due to the widespread influence of post-Reformation theology. The Apostolic Fathers believed they followed the teachings of St. Paul and the Apostles closely, as many of their writings explain. Furthermore, they had a much better prospect of correctly understanding the original Christian teaching, as they had been taught by the Apostles or by those that followed them, wrote in the same language and had a very similar culture. There is no reason to believe that the Apostolic Fathers failed to understand Christianity, and many reasons to think they preserved faithfully the doctrines of the earliest Christians.” -Andrew J. Wallace and R.D. Rusk, Moral Transformation: The Original Christian Paradigm of Salvation, p. 255
The only “church father” who believed anything close to total depravity is Augustine, though he did not develop the doctrine as far as Calvin did. Augustine is responsible for introducing the idea of original sin into the church, a doctrine that did not exist in orthodox Christianity before him, though it did exist in Gnoticism.
After reading those excerpts I hope it puts into proper perspective what Sackcloth said here:
Calvinism is a systematic theology(soteriology) of how God saves ppl.
Calvinism was invented as a response to Pelagianism because John Calvin thought Pelagianism was infecting the Catholic church! Calvinisms teachings also have their it's roots in Gnosticism.
Gnosticism does not save!
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i, like a whole lot of other people you'll meet here, had ever even heard of 'reformed theology' or a person named John Calvin. i just read the Bible and believed what i read. i found out about that man & his theology after i came to CC by reading threads about how much some people hate it. i found out that it was all very close to what i already believed - straight from the Bible.
like John 6, for example, as i was trying to introduce earlier, tho you wouldn't hear it -- much of this stuff is found right there, if you'd just pay attention to what's written, and ask questions about what it means. all of it is based in scripture.
i learned here on CC about a man named Arminius who also hated the theology that Calvin taught. had never heard of him before. the church considered all his theology, and rejected it as heresy - that's something i learned from reading threads on this forum, too. threads that, ironically, were written by people who agree with him, mostly. i didn't agree with them. i already didn't agree with them before i ever heard of him or what he taught - Arminianism is a set of beliefs that contradict principles i had already seen in the Bible.
i know that you feel antagonistic to me because in the gargantuan not-by-works thread where we met, you said something that was wrong, and i shot 2 dozen holes in it that you couldn't patch. but i'm not your enemy. i'm not 7's enemy either, tho she treats me like it, too. i'm telling you this so that maybe you'll understand that i don't write the things i write because i'm trying to be 'against' anyone and i don't believe the things i believe because i get them from any human. i believed them before i had any idea that any other human believed them, and i believe them because it's what i see in scripture, because i believe God and i believe the scripture is His revelation of Himself to us.
i write the things i write because they are what i see the scripture saying. i can back them up from the Bible. i believe that, if you can't back up what you aver with the scripture, there's a high probability that it's wrong. so it's not an evil thing to 'break it down' for each other - it's a good thing: it's how we know if things are true or not. if all you or i can do to justify our opinion about something is say it's 'common sense' or 'everybody knows' or 'because i said so' -- then what you or i are saying is worthless. but if we can show that this is what the scripture says, then we have firm ground to stand on. that's why it's important to break these things down, and look at the Bible, and see what it really says. that's why i post scripture and ask questions about it. posts that just say 'so and so is wrong' are complete rubbish to me. posts that say 'that must be wrong, because God says this and this and this' are treasure.
if that makes sense? i'm glad you're here and i'm glad that you're taking part in discussion. i just want the discussion to be more fruitful; i'm not trying to condescend or anything. none of us need human ideas. we need God's truth. we don't get there by just giving out opinions that we don't have a basis for in the Word. we don't get there by clinging to things the scripture contradicts. so when i post a verse and ask about it or quote something someone has said and examine it against the Bible i'm not trying to pick at a person. i'm doing it for the sake of the truth.
like John 6, for example, as i was trying to introduce earlier, tho you wouldn't hear it -- much of this stuff is found right there, if you'd just pay attention to what's written, and ask questions about what it means. all of it is based in scripture.
i learned here on CC about a man named Arminius who also hated the theology that Calvin taught. had never heard of him before. the church considered all his theology, and rejected it as heresy - that's something i learned from reading threads on this forum, too. threads that, ironically, were written by people who agree with him, mostly. i didn't agree with them. i already didn't agree with them before i ever heard of him or what he taught - Arminianism is a set of beliefs that contradict principles i had already seen in the Bible.
i know that you feel antagonistic to me because in the gargantuan not-by-works thread where we met, you said something that was wrong, and i shot 2 dozen holes in it that you couldn't patch. but i'm not your enemy. i'm not 7's enemy either, tho she treats me like it, too. i'm telling you this so that maybe you'll understand that i don't write the things i write because i'm trying to be 'against' anyone and i don't believe the things i believe because i get them from any human. i believed them before i had any idea that any other human believed them, and i believe them because it's what i see in scripture, because i believe God and i believe the scripture is His revelation of Himself to us.
i write the things i write because they are what i see the scripture saying. i can back them up from the Bible. i believe that, if you can't back up what you aver with the scripture, there's a high probability that it's wrong. so it's not an evil thing to 'break it down' for each other - it's a good thing: it's how we know if things are true or not. if all you or i can do to justify our opinion about something is say it's 'common sense' or 'everybody knows' or 'because i said so' -- then what you or i are saying is worthless. but if we can show that this is what the scripture says, then we have firm ground to stand on. that's why it's important to break these things down, and look at the Bible, and see what it really says. that's why i post scripture and ask questions about it. posts that just say 'so and so is wrong' are complete rubbish to me. posts that say 'that must be wrong, because God says this and this and this' are treasure.
if that makes sense? i'm glad you're here and i'm glad that you're taking part in discussion. i just want the discussion to be more fruitful; i'm not trying to condescend or anything. none of us need human ideas. we need God's truth. we don't get there by just giving out opinions that we don't have a basis for in the Word. we don't get there by clinging to things the scripture contradicts. so when i post a verse and ask about it or quote something someone has said and examine it against the Bible i'm not trying to pick at a person. i'm doing it for the sake of the truth.
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Except in the case of the Calvinist being Totally Depraved, they are incapable of understanding the sermon.
Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.
Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.
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How many piercings? 
John 6 New International Version (NIV) Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand
6 Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias), 2 and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the signs he had performed by healing the sick. 3 Then Jesus went up on a mountainside and sat down with his disciples. 4 The Jewish Passover Festival was near.
5 When Jesus looked up and saw a great crowd coming toward him, he said to Philip, “Where shall we buy bread for these people to eat?” 6 He asked this only to test him, for he already had in mind what he was going to do.
7 Philip answered him, “It would take more than half a year’s wages to buy enough bread for each one to have a bite!”
8 Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up, 9 “Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will they go among so many?”
10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and they sat down (about five thousand men were there). 11 Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.
12 When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.” 13 So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten.
14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.
Jesus Walks on the Water
16 When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, 17 where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. By now it was dark, and Jesus had not yet joined them. 18 A strong wind was blowing and the waters grew rough. 19 When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the water; and they were frightened. 20 But he said to them, “It is I; don’t be afraid.” 21 Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading.
22 The next day the crowd that had stayed on the opposite shore of the lake realized that only one boat had been there, and that Jesus had not entered it with his disciples, but that they had gone away alone. 23 Then some boats from Tiberias landed near the place where the people had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24 Once the crowd realized that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum in search of Jesus.
Jesus the Bread of Life
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
John 6 New International Version (NIV) Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand
6 Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias), 2 and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the signs he had performed by healing the sick. 3 Then Jesus went up on a mountainside and sat down with his disciples. 4 The Jewish Passover Festival was near.
5 When Jesus looked up and saw a great crowd coming toward him, he said to Philip, “Where shall we buy bread for these people to eat?” 6 He asked this only to test him, for he already had in mind what he was going to do.
7 Philip answered him, “It would take more than half a year’s wages to buy enough bread for each one to have a bite!”
8 Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up, 9 “Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will they go among so many?”
10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and they sat down (about five thousand men were there). 11 Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.
12 When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.” 13 So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten.
14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.
Jesus Walks on the Water
16 When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, 17 where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. By now it was dark, and Jesus had not yet joined them. 18 A strong wind was blowing and the waters grew rough. 19 When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the water; and they were frightened. 20 But he said to them, “It is I; don’t be afraid.” 21 Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading.
22 The next day the crowd that had stayed on the opposite shore of the lake realized that only one boat had been there, and that Jesus had not entered it with his disciples, but that they had gone away alone. 23 Then some boats from Tiberias landed near the place where the people had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24 Once the crowd realized that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum in search of Jesus.
Jesus the Bread of Life
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
Many Disciples Desert Jesus
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
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Shall we look to what John Calvin said in his Institutes of the Christian Religion?
The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 4 19.18:
(John Calvin's)Commentary on Ephesians 4:11:
The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 4 19.18:
“To designate the Holy Spirit and his gifts by oil is trite and common (Ps. 45:8). But the gift of healing disappeared with the other miraculous powers which the Lord was pleased to give for a time, that it might render the new preaching of the gospel for ever wonderful. Therefore, even were we to grant that anointing was a sacrament of those powers which were then administered by the hands of the apostles, it pertains not to us, to whom no such powers have been committed.”
(John Calvin's)Commentary on Ephesians 4:11:
“It deserves attention, also, that, of the five offices which are here enumerated, not more than the last two are intended to be perpetual. Apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets were bestowed on the church for a limited time only, ― except in those cases where religion has fallen into decay, and evangelists are raised up in an extraordinary manner, to restore the pure doctrine which had been lost. But without Pastors and Teachers there can be no government of the church.”
More reading-source of excerpts: https://covenanterreformation.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/was-john-calvin-a-continuationist/-
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