Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Dan_473]

I read back over my post and realized I used "perfection" instead of "walking perfectly or being perfect as we walk". I hope it doesn't cause confusion.

No confusion here. But thanks for checking!

 

[Dan_473]

It is quite a journey onto perfection or maturity. How we start out as babes in the Word of God, knowing so very little, taking so much on faith. Those "changes" coming sometimes so fast in the beginning, later more slowly, as we become more Christ like in our walk, yet never ending. I like these verses in the way that journey is laid out and how we must push past and onward

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

It is that discerning between good and evil that took me the longest time to get.

Yes, it does take a long time for our conscience to get trained to discern between Good and evil, doesn't it!

 

[PS]

Thanks for the nice post, but it looks like we're talking about two different things when it comes to the abrahamic covenant and a kind of secret isreal.

Yes, that's a great word,
repent.

If a person is in Christ, they are a new creation. I think that's a true change in the inner person!

We know that under Jewish law the penalty for not keeping the law is death, and we know Jews believe in a physical earthly kingdom. I wonder how old I would have been before I was stoned to death for not keeping the law?

 

[DeighAnn]

Thanks for the nice post, but it looks like we're talking about two different things when it comes to the abrahamic covenant and a kind of secret isreal.

Would you explain?

 

[JaumeJ]

I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?

Jesus, Yeshua, by His action and by His teaching has clarified how the law should be regarded after His presence here, His first advent.
Hearing Him we learn that any law without mercy, justice and faith is not to be applied. He was perfect. He did not break the law, yet He defended the adulteress from being stoned to death according to the law….Did He break the law in so ding? No, He demonstrated the law without mercy is not good.
He did the same in teaching we should love our enemies and turn the other cheek if smited thereon.
He told us not to teach against the least of the laws lest we be forever the leasst in the Kingdom for He did not come to destroy the law rther to complete it.
Learning from Jesus, Yeshua, is totally uplifdting and edifying as per living obedient to the commandments and laws that remain after He completed mosst of them
All of the laws that you kow make up the two Great Laws of love are still to be obeyed. This is obvious if anyone loves in the Holy Spirit.
No our obedience does not save us, it is Christ's obedience that saves any soul, but to not obey is simply being completely ungrateful to God and reckoning Him to be unfait, and worse yet, unwise.

I will always love our Father's wisdom. God bless you and have a wonderful Day of Rest............j

 

[PS]

Jesus, Yeshua, by His action and by His teaching has clarified how the law should be regarded after His presence here, His first advent.
Hearing Him we learn that any law without mercy, justice and faith is not to be applied. He was perfect. He did not break the law, yet He defended the adulteress from being stoned to death according to the law….Did He break the law in so ding? No, He demonstrated the law without mercy is not good.
He did the same in teaching we should love our enemies and turn the other cheek if smited thereon.
He told us not to teach against the least of the laws lest we be forever the leasst in the Kingdom for He did not come to destroy the law rther to complete it.
Learning from Jesus, Yeshua, is totally uplifdting and edifying as per living obedient to the commandments and laws that remain after He completed mosst of them
All of the laws that you kow make up the two Great Laws of love are still to be obeyed. This is obvious if anyone loves in the Holy Spirit.
No our obedience does not save us, it is Christ's obedience that saves any soul, but to not obey is simply being completely ungrateful to God and reckoning Him to be unfait, and worse yet, unwise.

I will always love our Father's wisdom. God bless you and have a wonderful Day of Rest............j

That is Jesus who is the altogether lovely, and as we know, despite all the arguments, Jesus ended the law. As you have just said, they were going to do as the law required to the woman caught in adultery. My question remains unanswered. I still wonder how long I would have lived under Moses, who Jews think was an absolutely wonderful man.

 

[Dan_473]

IMO,this Is talking about the physical health as you grow up but what about the spiritual.

1Corinthians 13:11
King James Version

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Moving on to adult things, and spiritual things, I think the further part of the section of scripture relates

1 Corinthians 13: 12. We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know I part; but then I shall know even as I am known. 13. And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity!

 

[Dan_473]

We know that under Jewish law the penalty for not keeping the law is death, and we know Jews believe in a physical earthly kingdom. I wonder how old I would have been before I was stoned to death for not keeping the law?

Great question!

we know that the ancient Israelites were pretty lax about keeping the stoning laws as well as the rest of the law.

If they had been more careful to keep the law, they would have stoned all those idol worshippers. Also the adulterers, which would have included King David, I suppose.

 

[PS]

Great question!

we know that the ancient Israelites were pretty lax about keeping the stoning laws as well as the rest of the law.

If they had been more careful to keep the law, they would have stoned all those idol worshippers. Also the adulterers, which would have included King David, I suppose.

So they never kept the law!

 

[DeighAnn]

Great question!

we know that the ancient Israelites were pretty lax about keeping the stoning laws as well as the rest of the law.

If they had been more careful to keep the law, they would have stoned all those idol worshippers. Also the adulterers, which would have included King David, I suppose.

ok, I MISSED that one. And if I ever heard it I missed it, not because I ever did it, so no guilt. Could you give me Chp and vs. Thank you.

 

[Dan_473]

Would you explain?

I'll be glad to try to explain, as much as I understand. Also I want to say that the following idea is not something that I endorse.

Around 700 BC, the Assyrians captured all of the northern kingdom of Israel and all of the southern kingdom of Judah except for Jerusalem.

The Bible doesn't say where these people ended up. So according to this idea, those people blended in with the gentiles, but because the covenant with Abraham was without conditions, they were still under that covenant. But over time, they themselves didn't even remember they were Israelites.

An extension of this idea is that they migrated North into places like Denmark and Britain and the USA. So those Nations actually enjoy promises given to Israel, like that they shall possess the gates of their enemies.

As I read the scriptures, the abrahamic covenant did have at least one condition, circumcision. So if the Israelites that blended in with the gentiles stopped practicing circumcision, then they would no longer be under the covenant of Abraham.

That's how I understand the idea, and I think there are various permutations of it.

 

[Dan_473]

So they never kept the law!

For the most part, they did not keep the law. There were probably a few Israelites who kept some of the laws.

Here is a very liberal idea that is only suitable if one doesn't take the scripture literally.

Most of the laws that are written down in the first five books of the Bible were not actually written at the time of Moses. They were written down at a later date, possibly during the time of Josiah or during the exile.

This explains why, for example, the law says that the king shall not have lots of horses, which I understand as a standing army.
But both David and Solomon had lots of horses, yet no prophet ever talks to them about breaking that law.

 

[Dan_473]

ok, I MISSED that one. And if I ever heard it I missed it, not because I ever did it, so no guilt. Could you give me Chp and vs. Thank you.

Ummm... Are you asking me for scripture references of where it talks in the law about stoning adulterers and people who worship idols?

I can do that if that's what you're actually asking, and you don't have any way to research it for yourself. I'm on a cell phone, so it's not so easy to find references.

But sure, let me know if you sincerely need help.

 

[Marcelo]

Sleep well

DeighAnn, I had a hectic day and now (20:50 p.m.) I still have things to do outside and will be back late. I'll respond to your posts tomorrow (if God grants me another day of life).

 

[Marcelo]

No. We do not do such things.

Sorry, Wokinluv, I promissed to respond but I'm still unable. Tomorrow I will (God willing).

 

[Marcelo]

Jesus, Yeshua, by His action and by His teaching has clarified how the law should be regarded after His presence here, His first advent.
Hearing Him we learn that any law without mercy, justice and faith is not to be applied. He was perfect. He did not break the law, yet He defended the adulteress from being stoned to death according to the law….Did He break the law in so ding? No, He demonstrated the law without mercy is not good.
He did the same in teaching we should love our enemies and turn the other cheek if smited thereon.
He told us not to teach against the least of the laws lest we be forever the leasst in the Kingdom for He did not come to destroy the law rther to complete it.
Learning from Jesus, Yeshua, is totally uplifdting and edifying as per living obedient to the commandments and laws that remain after He completed mosst of them
All of the laws that you kow make up the two Great Laws of love are still to be obeyed. This is obvious if anyone loves in the Holy Spirit.
No our obedience does not save us, it is Christ's obedience that saves any soul, but to not obey is simply being completely ungrateful to God and reckoning Him to be unfait, and worse yet, unwise.

I will always love our Father's wisdom. God bless you and have a wonderful Day of Rest............j

Interesting things! I'll respond tomorrow (God willing)!

 

[DeighAnn]

Ummm... Are you asking me for scripture references of where it talks in the law about stoning adulterers and people who worship idols?

I can do that if that's what you're actually asking, and you don't have any way to research it for yourself. I'm on a cell phone, so it's not so easy to find references.

But sure, let me know if you sincerely need help.

No, I will find it, I was just being lazy, but thank you for the offer, very nice. I know about murderers and rapists but never heard of adulterers is all.

 

[PS]

For the most part, they did not keep the law. There were probably a few Israelites who kept some of the laws.

Here is a very liberal idea that is only suitable if one doesn't take the scripture literally.

Most of the laws that are written down in the first five books of the Bible were not actually written at the time of Moses. They were written down at a later date, possibly during the time of Josiah or during the exile.

This explains why, for example, the law says that the king shall not have lots of horses, which I understand as a standing army.
But both David and Solomon had lots of horses, yet no prophet ever talks to them about breaking that law.

I am sorry Dan, but none of that has anything to do with Christianity. All we have in common is Jesus, who introduced His people to His Heavenly Father, so that all who believe and follow Him and HIS teaching might be saved. There is no salvation in Jewish rituals, sacrifice or law keeping. No man can save himself, salvation is a gift of God, there is no other way.

 

[Guojing]

For the most part, they did not keep the law. There were probably a few Israelites who kept some of the laws.

Here is a very liberal idea that is only suitable if one doesn't take the scripture literally.

Most of the laws that are written down in the first five books of the Bible were not actually written at the time of Moses. They were written down at a later date, possibly during the time of Josiah or during the exile.

This explains why, for example, the law says that the king shall not have lots of horses, which I understand as a standing army.
But both David and Solomon had lots of horses, yet no prophet ever talks to them about breaking that law.

Before Jesus arrived in the flesh, i.e during the OT, they were saved by faith in what God revealed to them.

And what did God reveal to them during that time? "Keep the Law of Moses, circumcise your male kids, and offer an animal sacrifice every time you sin."

As long as they do that, God considers that as "putting their faith in him" and he will see them as righteous before him, as what the prophet Balaam found out in Numbers 23:18-21.

 

[JaumeJ]

That is Jesus who is the altogether lovely, and as we know, despite all the arguments, Jesus ended the law. As you have just said, they were going to do as the law required to the woman caught in adultery. My question remains unanswered. I still wonder how long I would have lived under Moses, who Jews think was an absolutely wonderful man.

He whobreaks one of the laws has broken all of the law. Without grace no man will live, grace and mercy.

You did not understand what I posted,. All the laws that remain which go together to build up the two great laws of Love are obeyed by us. We, the body members of Jesus, are yet fulfilling those lawas and always will. Thus Jesus is yet fulfilling those laws which remain. Love will always exist. If not there isno salvation. For God so loved the world dHe gave His only Begotten Son. He is our Salvation, not any one law, howeve we are to obey our Father in every manner possible, out of respect and love and gratitude...….