Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

DeighAnn · Oct 15, 2019

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I feel the pain in your posts.

I feel some of the problems come from "if you believe in Christ, love God and your neighbor you are not only saved, but you are saved forever", not necessarily dismissing ALL the rest of those commands and the other things Christ commanded, and the OT altogether, but somehow making it seem so much less than it is and like somehow "fulfilled" means no longer of great importance or concern to us. But

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
or
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
or
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deuteronomy 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart
Deuteronomy 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
or
Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him
or
2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
or
2 Chronicles 6:14 And said, O LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee in the heaven, nor in the earth; which keepest covenant, and shewest mercy unto thy servants, that walk before thee with all their hearts

I look at the bible as not only my instruction manual and my history, but as a letter personally written to me from my Father, my Creator, my Saviour with the guaranteed best advice I will ever receive. I do love God with all my heart and soul and strength and mind and find myself in that book more than anywhere else on or in this earth.

DeighAnn · Oct 15, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

One law is Love God with all your heart and soul and strength and mind. Do you follow this law? If you do you follow Gods law, just like me. It is with your heart and your mind and your strength, sometimes physical too. The spirit leads and comforts us. The spirit leads my mind to the Word of God, my heart loves it through and through. Do you feed your mind from "The Word of God" or from this world? If you believe that "receiving the spirit" sets the entire word of truth in your mind and heart, then why doesn't everyone who has the spirit know without error the entire bible? Because we have works to do for God. Study the Word, a work. Honor mother and father, a work. Help a neighbor, a work. Spread the Word, a work. Go, teach, baptize, a work. AND your works do follow you.

I do not go back to sacrificing animals when repentant and asking for forgiveness just like I do not go to a priest. But KNOWING the law of Moses, shows and tells me WHAT Jesus really accomplished. How can I be grateful to the degree HE deserves, if I don't know what all that forgives He provides entails?

ALL my heart, and ALL my mind and ALL my strength and ALL my soul. Every word given to everyone in that Word more important to me than anything else. Every bit of wisdom and knowledge I can possibly receive, I am going after not only for myself but to give to anyone asking. THIS is what I wish all were doing and feeling. Not looking for the least, but the most the Word provides. Not to be saved because I believe in the work Jesus did, and I believe in the promises of God. But the promises of God come with a bunch of Ifs and conditions and if you don't have that knowledge, it is all just a delusion that will fall when standing in front of God. IMO

eternally-gratefull · Oct 15, 2019

DeighAnn said:

The law is a unit

the law requires perfection

the law does not tells us how to not commit adultry, it just says don’t

if we want to obey the law, we are on our own to empower ourselves to not break this command

when we accomplish it, we boast in self, because we did it

there is no walking in the spirit in the law

walking in the spirit, says sacrifice your own needs, and take care of the needs of others, by putting hier needs above your own, and allow god tomtake care of your needs

do this, and by practice you will not break the law.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 15, 2019

DeighAnn said:

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I feel the pain in your posts.

I feel some of the problems come from "if you believe in Christ, love God and your neighbor you are not only saved, but you are saved forever", not necessarily dismissing ALL the rest of those commands and the other things Christ commanded, and the OT altogether, but somehow making it seem so much less than it is and like somehow "fulfilled" means no longer of great importance or concern to us. But

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
or
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
or
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deuteronomy 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart
Deuteronomy 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
or
Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him
or
2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
or
2 Chronicles 6:14 And said, O LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee in the heaven, nor in the earth; which keepest covenant, and shewest mercy unto thy servants, that walk before thee with all their hearts

I look at the bible as not only my instruction manual and my history, but as a letter personally written to me from my Father, my Creator, my Saviour with the guaranteed best advice I will ever receive. I do love God with all my heart and soul and strength and mind and find myself in that book more than anywhere else on or in this earth.

What is worse

getting saved by grace, and learning to love god and others because he first loved you, and having to grow even theough your mistakes

or trying to follow the law by your own power, and by defenition, either bring the law down to your level, or hide the fact that you can. Ot keep it, yet go teach others they must do the very thing you can not do?

NayborBear · Oct 15, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

It's like this EG.
God will lead you to where a given "spiritual sacrifice" is to be made.
He will not DO it FOR You!

eternally-gratefull · Oct 15, 2019

NayborBear said:

If me doing that spiritual sacrifice is required for salvation

then we are saved by works, not by grace

as for working for god, or doing spiritual good as a saved person,

i never stated he would do it for me

so either way, you are out in left field,

eternally-gratefull · Oct 15, 2019

Gal 2 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

why would paul state that id he tried to build again that which he destroyed (his work at the law) he makes himself an even worse sinner or violator?

watcher2013 · Oct 15, 2019

Marcelo said:

And how would you answer the original post question?

Jesus (while on Earth) never told His disciples to stop keeping the Law, but Paul did;

Jesus said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven, but Paul said it is OK to be rich provided you are generous and not arrogant;

Jesus told His disciples to sell their possessions and give alms, but Paul didn't;

Jesus told His disciples that they would never be saved unless their righteousness exceeded that of the scribes and the Pharisees, but Paul said salvation was by grace;

Well, there many other differences between Jesus and Paul.

Which teachings should we follow? The teachings given to the Jews while Jesus was on Earth, or the teachings the Lord gave us through Paul after the ascension?

Because Jesus was talking to the Jews who has the law

Guojing · Oct 15, 2019

watcher2013 said:

Careful, many readers here love the 4 Gospels so much that they see themselves as Jesus's audience too.

Marcelo · Oct 15, 2019

watcher2013 said:

That's correct! For almost 30 years I believed that our focus should be on the four Gospels. They are very important indeed, but for salvation purposes we have to refer to Paul whenever we come across a "Jesus vs. Paul" disagreement.

watcher2013 · Oct 15, 2019

Guojing said:

I do not care if they loved the four gospel...who doesnt...but that is the truth and it will never changed

watcher2013 · Oct 15, 2019

Marcelo said:

It is correct not only for 30 generation but for years to come

watcher2013 · Oct 15, 2019

watcher2013 said:

30 years not generation

DeighAnn · Oct 15, 2019

How many people have figured out that through faith being saved, salvation ARE JUST THE FIRST STEPS? The very beginning of coming to God. The very beginning of His wisdom and knowledge. The very start of the Journey. The first thing that happens. The milk of Christianity. The place you are to proceed from. The first steps of the walk. The beginning of perfecting. The start of the race. The how do you do hand shake. The hey come follow me. The first change of the inner man. The beginning of wisdom.

How many different ways are we told to Go, an action, teach, an action, Baptize, an action,

Yes, go to Paul to get saved. Then move on to the Judge, the Creator, the Father. CAN YOU GET TOOOOO MUCH FROM THE WISDOM AND KNOWLDEGE GOD GAVE TO US IN THE BIBLE? If your works do follow you, WHY would you ever tell a child of God NOT TO in any way shape or form?

If righteousness is of God, why would you ever NOT TRY? TALENTS the parable for eyes and ears only.

If you just stop with the one talent and don't give increase to God what good are you? Go for the 10 talent way, even if the person right beside you screams don't for any reason.

I am sure our fellow servant Paul will be right there when THIS ONE IS JUDGING US ON THIS
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Have you been on that ride yet?? Let me tell you, there is not question 1 left after that ride through the Word. If anything you become more intense in the needing of the Word. WE don't get to choose between any of the jot and tittles. I think He made that very clear. and if you feel you must, know He must also.

God doesn't like division. So if some one is telling you that 2000 years later there is a "difference" between the people who come to Christ, run and study for yourself.

How many times do you see it written , Keep my love??? No, because that is the greatest command, but what does he say about the least commmand and the teaching of NOT TEACHING THEM???
Here is how the ONE WHO WILL BE JUDGING WHETHER YOU WILL BE AN VESSEL OF HONOR OR NOT.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I myself can't think of a way He could have made it more clear.

watcher2013 · Oct 15, 2019

Marcelo said:

To answer this point by point.
1. Jesus nevor told the desciples to stop keeping the law...(christ was not crucified yet and not risen) righteousness is by keeping the law...during paul. Christ already risen his blood already paid it.
2. About richmen...again the same...if you measure rightousness by keeping the law it is impossible for rich men...now if you are born rich does it prevent you for believing in Christ.
3. Selling possession to give alms...the early chriatian sold their possession tlfor the gospel. Paul on the other hand preach giving..
4. Pharisees and scribes are both geniuses of the law, again this is while righteousness is measured by keeping the law before crucifixion.

Marcelo · Oct 15, 2019

watcher2013 said:

To answer this point by point.
1. Jesus nevor told the desciples to stop keeping the law...(christ was not crucified yet and not risen) righteousness is by keeping the law...during paul. Christ already risen his blood already paid it.
2. About richmen...again the same...if you measure rightousness by keeping the law it is impossible for rich men...now if you are born rich does it prevent you for believing in Christ.
3. Selling possession to give alms...the early chriatian sold their possession tlfor the gospel. Paul on the other hand preach giving..
4. Pharisees and scribes are both geniuses of the law, again this is while righteousness is measured by keeping the law before crucifixion.

I agree!

Guojing · Oct 15, 2019

watcher2013 said:

But why do you think even the resurrected Christ did not tell his disciples before he ascended to heaven, "You no longer needed to keep the Law of Moses now that I have been crucified and resurrected?"

watcher2013 · Oct 15, 2019

Guojing said:

The holy spirit revealed it to them...remember the cloven feet vision...peter hesistated but then followed

Guojing · Oct 15, 2019

watcher2013 said:

Yes, but that was in Acts 10, after a very significant event has happened, the stoning of Stephen.

Before that, was the law of Moses still valid for all the Jews?

I mean, I can imagine Paul would not be persecuted so much by the Jews throughout the entire Acts account, if the resurrected Christ did tell the 11 before that.

wokinluv · Oct 15, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

To this you were called,because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example,that you should follow in his steps. 1Peter 2:20-21

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2:1‭-‬16

Marcelo said:

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work

Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 1 Corinthians 4:6

Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 1 John 2:7

And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 2 John 1:5

The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Romans 13:8

I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— Romans 15:18

Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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