Not By Works

gb9 · Oct 14, 2019

you have no authority to warn anyone. you are bearing witness of yourself, that is invalid.

and, by the way, since you insist that pisteuo is mis-translated, and should be " surrender" then why was the word paradidomi , which means a personal surrender, why was that word not used?

I mean, it was used 122 times, it is not a obscure word.

mailmandan · Oct 14, 2019

Pisteuo said:

It's you who is spreading a false narrative by confusing the "essence" of repentance (change of mind) with the "fruit" of repentance (change of actions). The Bible tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance. The end result of confusing the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance is salvation by works. The believer surrenders their life to Christ the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The life inspired by such surrender is the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. Your skewed doctrine equates to salvation by faith + works.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - ..repent and believe in the gospel.

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 20:21 - ..repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

You can keep telling yourself that there is no such thing as "believe in the gospel" for salvation, but you are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat.

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

gb9 said:

First, how am I bearing witness to myself?

I'm bearing witness to a specific Greek word, and the specific Greek definition.

Explain your accusation!

Noose · Oct 14, 2019

calibob said:

Covenant is the 'how', God's command(law) is the 'what'. The what (God's command) was not abolished but the 'how' (covenant) has changed to a better one because now the command is in the hearts of men to judge them.

Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? Absolutely not! Instead, we uphold the Law.

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

gb9 said:

Second, pisteuo correctly defined is three specific things , that together communicate what saving Faith is.

1) a personal surrender to Him.
2) a belief that He will accept, guide, maintain, and complete the surrendered life.
3) sustained by confidence. Which means we make all of our hundreds of daily decisions based on the fact our lives are nolonger our, but His now.

Now, I've been taught for over 33 years by a teacher who has a Theology degree from Stanford, able to read and translate any ancient text, and ownes the largest collection of Biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican. I'm not going to give you pearls that you don't want just to trample all over them. You need to start with fulfilling pisteuo correctly!

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

Noose said:

God's ways 101! He is a covenant making God!

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

mailmandan said:

It's you who is spreading a false narrative by confusing the "essence" of repentance (change of mind) with the "fruit" of repentance (change of actions). The Bible tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance. The end result of confusing the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance is salvation by works. The believer surrenders their life to Christ the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The life inspired by such surrender is the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. Your skewed doctrine equates to salvation by faith + works.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - ..repent and believe in the gospel.

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 20:21 - ..repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

You can keep telling yourself that there is no such thing as "believe in the gospel" for salvation, but you are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat.

Really, " the fruit of repentance"? That's a good one !

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

mailmandan said:

It's you who is spreading a false narrative by confusing the "essence" of repentance (change of mind) with the "fruit" of repentance (change of actions). The Bible tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance. The end result of confusing the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance is salvation by works. The believer surrenders their life to Christ the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The life inspired by such surrender is the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. Your skewed doctrine equates to salvation by faith + works.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - ..repent and believe in the gospel.

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 20:21 - ..repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

You can keep telling yourself that there is no such thing as "believe in the gospel" for salvation, but you are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat.

No such thing as believe! The Greek language doesn't even have a word in their language for the words believe, believer, and believing!

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

mailmandan said:

It's you who is spreading a false narrative by confusing the "essence" of repentance (change of mind) with the "fruit" of repentance (change of actions). The Bible tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance. The end result of confusing the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance is salvation by works. The believer surrenders their life to Christ the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The life inspired by such surrender is the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. Your skewed doctrine equates to salvation by faith + works.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - ..repent and believe in the gospel.

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Acts 20:21 - ..repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

You can keep telling yourself that there is no such thing as "believe in the gospel" for salvation, but you are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat.

Perhaps you would present your understanding of the salvation process? Nobody will!

From the start, put it on the table to be tested.

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

dcontroversal said:

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Perhaps you would put your exact understanding of the salvation process to be looked at and tested?

This is your thread.

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

Why is it every time I ask the group here to explain their understanding of the salvation process, crickets!

star · Oct 14, 2019

In my devotion this morning is this "summary". God doesn't want religious fanatics but spiritually "overhauled" people.

gb9 · Oct 14, 2019

Pisteuo said:

because salvation is not a process.

so, you just go with one professor at uber-liberal Stanford's private translation of one word, and we are just supposed to take his word over hundreds of years of historians and scholars translating it the right way? yep, that sounds reasonable.....

and, by the way, you never answered my question- if the proper translation is surrender, then why was the word for surrender not used?

ask the prof that one.

mailmandan · Oct 14, 2019

Pisteuo said:

Matthew 3:8; Luke 3:8 - Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance. So you reject these passages of scripture?

Acts 26:20 - but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. So you don't understand the difference between fruit/works and repentance?

mailmandan · Oct 14, 2019

Pisteuo said:

Strong's #4100: pisteuo (pronounced pist-yoo'-o)

from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

pisteuō

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in

1a) of the thing believed

1a1) to credit, have confidence

1b) in a moral or religious reference

1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity

2a) to be intrusted with a thing

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from G4102

Citing in TDNT: 6:174, 849

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G4100/pisteuo.htm

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

gb9 said:

If it's not a process, then what is it?

Do I need to drag it out of you all,this should be the most exciting thing you could ever Baer witness too. You all seem to be ashamed of what your standing on.

mailmandan · Oct 14, 2019

Pisteuo said:

Salvation process? Usually when someone says that salvation is a "process" they teach salvation by works. What happens is the 3 tenses to salvation get mixed up by works-salvationists.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

mailmandan said:

I reject you applying them to either of us without first showing they are yours.
You can only prove that by putting your Faith , your pisteuo, how you made your covenant with Christ on the table to be tested.

A simple request, oh, and its' a command told by Christ to do to all things.

Pisteuo · Oct 14, 2019

mailmandan said:

Mailman, from the very beginning!

I'll help you out.

We are called to Christ by the Father. Because nobody comes to Christ, unless the Father draws them.

So we are born into this world. At some point when we become of age, some of us may be called to Christ by the Father. We turn in the direction of the caller( repentance), then we take our first step of Faith towards Christ.

What in your understanding does that first step look like?

gb9 · Oct 14, 2019

Pisteuo said:

you are dodging the question- why was the greek word for surrender not used?

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