Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
“Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Everything is meaningless!”
The Conclusion of the Matter
Not only was the Teacher wise, but also he imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true. The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
According to you, the scriptures I posted are meaningless which is contrary to what the apostle Paul said in 2Timothy 3:15-17 which says that they are able to keep us wise for salvation through Faith in Christ Jesus.
Do you really believe that the law that the one Lawgiver and Judge gave is not part of the scriptures which you consider as meaningless?
Does your words nullify God's law and makes it meaningless?
I choose to let God be true and every man a liar. (Romans 3:3-4)
The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
Do you also conclude contrary to what King Solomon said?
Not really.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13
The apostle Paul is correct.
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Romans 8:3-7
When you and your group call people names such as Judaizers and works salvationists, you show your hatred for the Jews who are the chosen people of God, the elect. Here's another "MEANINGLESS" as you consider them that you may consider.
If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. 1 John 4:20-21
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. 1 John 3:15
The Conclusion of the Matter
Not only was the Teacher wise, but also he imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true. The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
According to you, the scriptures I posted are meaningless which is contrary to what the apostle Paul said in 2Timothy 3:15-17 which says that they are able to keep us wise for salvation through Faith in Christ Jesus.
Do you really believe that the law that the one Lawgiver and Judge gave is not part of the scriptures which you consider as meaningless?
Does your words nullify God's law and makes it meaningless?
I choose to let God be true and every man a liar. (Romans 3:3-4)
The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
Do you also conclude contrary to what King Solomon said?
Not really.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13
The apostle Paul is correct.
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Romans 8:3-7
When you and your group call people names such as Judaizers and works salvationists, you show your hatred for the Jews who are the chosen people of God, the elect. Here's another "MEANINGLESS" as you consider them that you may consider.
If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. 1 John 4:20-21
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. 1 John 3:15
-
3
- Show all
Mmmm….
What is the cause of us realizing we need a Saviour if it is not the law showing us our sin?
What are we receiving Rest from if it is not our work at the law?
We're going to agree on something, I know it...
What is the cause of us realizing we need a Saviour if it is not the law showing us our sin?
What are we receiving Rest from if it is not our work at the law?
We're going to agree on something, I know it...
When you share with your unsaved friends about Jesus, do you really try to convince them that "the law show your sins, so you need Jesus as your savior?"
How did they respond to you? Do they ever respond, "Oh wow, I now realized I am a sinner because of the Law!"
I don't really need to do much convincing.
I just show them Matthew 5. Matthew 5 is all the convincing anyone needs. If you don't realize you are a sinner after that then you probably aren't likely to ever realize it.
It's never crossed my mind to tell people that the Lord is only preaching to Jews. I suppose that would mean 3/4 of the bible is only to Jews. That's opposite what I think.
But people who think that 3/4 of the bible is only for Jews say that what I believe is replacement theology. I think that the whole bible is for All of Gods People. How it is applied is different in some cases.
I just show them Matthew 5. Matthew 5 is all the convincing anyone needs. If you don't realize you are a sinner after that then you probably aren't likely to ever realize it.
It's never crossed my mind to tell people that the Lord is only preaching to Jews. I suppose that would mean 3/4 of the bible is only to Jews. That's opposite what I think.
But people who think that 3/4 of the bible is only for Jews say that what I believe is replacement theology. I think that the whole bible is for All of Gods People. How it is applied is different in some cases.
-
1
- Show all
E
see there you go, still refuse to answer my question, then attack me, another tactic of lawyers, when you can’ answer a question, attack the person to make him look bad
of course scripture is not meaningless. But you posting certain scriptures out of context to our conversation is meaningless..
Once Again, are hou more like the pharisee or tax collector?
see, here is an example of you using scripture out of context,
I am NOT promoting sin
I am Not promoting lawlessness
I am NOT promoting breaking commands.
I AM promoting HOW we are obedient
yet you continue to use these passages as if i need to hear then and they support your argument against me.
they do not, they never Will because i agree with every one of those verses.
but your closed minded, you can’t hear a word people tell you, so you continue to shout and scream rhings which are out of context.
good luck man
again, are you more like the pharisee or tax collector?
i think you are like the tax collector.
1. push law
2. claims ro follow law
3. judges people who he deems does not follow the law
4. praises hod your not like us,
does anyone disagree?
of course scripture is not meaningless. But you posting certain scriptures out of context to our conversation is meaningless..
Once Again, are hou more like the pharisee or tax collector?
see, here is an example of you using scripture out of context,
I am NOT promoting sin
I am Not promoting lawlessness
I am NOT promoting breaking commands.
I AM promoting HOW we are obedient
yet you continue to use these passages as if i need to hear then and they support your argument against me.
they do not, they never Will because i agree with every one of those verses.
but your closed minded, you can’t hear a word people tell you, so you continue to shout and scream rhings which are out of context.
good luck man
again, are you more like the pharisee or tax collector?
i think you are like the tax collector.
1. push law
2. claims ro follow law
3. judges people who he deems does not follow the law
4. praises hod your not like us,
does anyone disagree?
-
3
- Show all
It is an confirmed prophecy that once a man tires of resisting sin and evil, and discovers how to twist the meaning of "Grace" so that he may incorporate "unrepentant sin" comfortably into their notion of "Sanctification" they hold tenaciously to their "hypocrisy" entrenching themselves. When the adversary fools those who are "looking to be fooled" he has willing captives.
So many have to declare from time to time that they "Love Gods Laws" illuminating their hypocrisy all the more. They speak of the law as the light of the path but walk in darkness! They say "love, love" is all you need! Little do they see that they are the "simple ones" of Proverb 7 where they fall to the woman (Churches with twisted doctrine), note on every corner, that contends that the "goodman"/Yahshua is away, let's drink of "love"/unrepentant sin/twisted grace until He returns!
SG
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Sounds like the exact opposite of what you are saying. Christians do not entangle themselves back into the yoke of bondage.
You've heard of the story of Brer Rabbit and the tar baby? That's us with the law being the tar baby. Pretty soon our white garments are covered in black.
So how do Christians ensure that they don't fall into the error that you have fallen into? The error of lawlessness? The error of thinking that working at the law is the way to be righteous?
Peter tells us;
2 Peter 3:17-18
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
The Secret to the Christians Life is that they are never without Christ. There is never a time when someone can say the "good man" is away. Because He is always with us.
I can totally understand how someone who has turned away from the liberty that is in Christ, back to the yoke of bondage could think that the "good man" was away. That is why Peter warns us not be led away with that error.
And Paul tells us too. So does Christ.
Sounds like the exact opposite of what you are saying. Christians do not entangle themselves back into the yoke of bondage.
You've heard of the story of Brer Rabbit and the tar baby? That's us with the law being the tar baby. Pretty soon our white garments are covered in black.
So how do Christians ensure that they don't fall into the error that you have fallen into? The error of lawlessness? The error of thinking that working at the law is the way to be righteous?
Peter tells us;
2 Peter 3:17-18
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
The Secret to the Christians Life is that they are never without Christ. There is never a time when someone can say the "good man" is away. Because He is always with us.
I can totally understand how someone who has turned away from the liberty that is in Christ, back to the yoke of bondage could think that the "good man" was away. That is why Peter warns us not be led away with that error.
And Paul tells us too. So does Christ.
-
1
- Show all
E
Who preaches unrepentant sin?
who preaches resisting evil?
you people love to preach law but you can not even follow the 9th command, how can you preach we should follow law then continually break ot?
grace, you do not even know what it is, you think it must be earned, and can be unearned (lost)
good luck earning your salvation, while puffing your chest.
this is not a discussion about who loves gods laws. I think we all can say we love them
this is a discussion about HOW one is obedient, and can we follow the law or not.
again, context destroys your argument, that and your false understanding of what others believe
who preaches resisting evil?
you people love to preach law but you can not even follow the 9th command, how can you preach we should follow law then continually break ot?
grace, you do not even know what it is, you think it must be earned, and can be unearned (lost)
good luck earning your salvation, while puffing your chest.
this is not a discussion about who loves gods laws. I think we all can say we love them
this is a discussion about HOW one is obedient, and can we follow the law or not.
again, context destroys your argument, that and your false understanding of what others believe
-
1
- Show all
It's only "out of context" to your "conversation"EG!
For the "record" EG, I don't judge people who do not follow the law. I "see" "the adversary/ies", that gush/es through your "printed words."
It is that which am "judging!" Not you personally!
That is, until you start trying to justify its being there!
And then, try showing you scripture, in how you also, may "defeat/overcome!"
But, as long as you hold fast to yer OSAS "precepts of man" doctrine?
Any scripture anyone posts in trying to help you and yer ilk?
Are ALWAYS going to "appear" "out of context!"
In your defense however?
This commonly occurs with eyes that cannot see, and ears that cannot hear.
For the "record" EG, I don't judge people who do not follow the law. I "see" "the adversary/ies", that gush/es through your "printed words."
It is that which am "judging!" Not you personally!
That is, until you start trying to justify its being there!
And then, try showing you scripture, in how you also, may "defeat/overcome!"
But, as long as you hold fast to yer OSAS "precepts of man" doctrine?
Any scripture anyone posts in trying to help you and yer ilk?
Are ALWAYS going to "appear" "out of context!"
In your defense however?
This commonly occurs with eyes that cannot see, and ears that cannot hear.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
E
lol,
again you people are funny
he is responding to ME, so it is part of MY conversation.
he also stated things about me which was untrue.
but you all love to blame shift, you do it all the time her you go again, you refuse to admit when your wrong,, then demand people should listen to you,,
As long as you hold on to a works based gospel you will never see anything, or understand grace,
you look at me through what YOU think OSAS means, (you have proven you do not know that either)
so you can not see beyond your preconcieved ideas, thats WHYyou can not understand people,
i can not help you understand what i and others really believe until you take the blinders of your eyes
until then
1. you will continue to not understand, in turn
2. you will continue to misrepresent people which i. Turn
3. you will continually be forced to blame shift, because you can not stand on what you think because if you admit your wrong, well a pharisee would never admit that would he?
good luck man. i am praying for all of you, Saul and Nicodemus found the light and was healed, so there is hope for you also. [/quote][/QUOTE]
again you people are funny
he is responding to ME, so it is part of MY conversation.
he also stated things about me which was untrue.
but you all love to blame shift, you do it all the time her you go again, you refuse to admit when your wrong,, then demand people should listen to you,,
As long as you hold on to a works based gospel you will never see anything, or understand grace,
you look at me through what YOU think OSAS means, (you have proven you do not know that either)
so you can not see beyond your preconcieved ideas, thats WHYyou can not understand people,
i can not help you understand what i and others really believe until you take the blinders of your eyes
until then
1. you will continue to not understand, in turn
2. you will continue to misrepresent people which i. Turn
3. you will continually be forced to blame shift, because you can not stand on what you think because if you admit your wrong, well a pharisee would never admit that would he?
good luck man. i am praying for all of you, Saul and Nicodemus found the light and was healed, so there is hope for you also. [/quote][/QUOTE]
-
1
- Show all
Sadly GP your concept or notion of "liberty" is incorrect.
If you knew the liberty of "loving Gods laws with all your heart and not only being "able" to keep them, but finding it a joy to do so you would then understand the "liberty" being spoken of.
If a man loves sin it comes easy to him, naturally even, the same for the heart that has been changed to love righteousness. Obedience to the Law comes naturally, easily.
The carnal man hates the things of the Spirit/righteousness, and conversely the spiritual man hates the things of unrighteousness.
m 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
So it is absolute that the inverse of verse 7 above would read;
Because the spiritual mind is at peace with God: for it is subject to the law of God, neither can it be subject to sin any longer.
SG
If you knew the liberty of "loving Gods laws with all your heart and not only being "able" to keep them, but finding it a joy to do so you would then understand the "liberty" being spoken of.
If a man loves sin it comes easy to him, naturally even, the same for the heart that has been changed to love righteousness. Obedience to the Law comes naturally, easily.
The carnal man hates the things of the Spirit/righteousness, and conversely the spiritual man hates the things of unrighteousness.
m 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
So it is absolute that the inverse of verse 7 above would read;
Because the spiritual mind is at peace with God: for it is subject to the law of God, neither can it be subject to sin any longer.
SG
-
1
-
1
- Show all
E
Liberty is being about to come to our Abba Father, and not seeing him as the spirit of fear, but having a sound mind, because you know under any circumstance, your loved, You also know he will chasten you, but chastening is only painful to those who refuse to be trained by it, to the rest of us, it hurts, but it brings joy, because we TRUST our ABBA, and know he has our best interest in all things
lack of liberty is following the law. You either have to water it down, or continue to be bound by its requirements, which no one can do,
lack of liberty is following the law. You either have to water it down, or continue to be bound by its requirements, which no one can do,