3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists

[Whispered]

By the way, folks, notice that Whispered is dumping tons of information into this thread. Obviously I cannot spend all my life responding to the claims, and I'm not going to do it.

They are typical claims against Reformed theology, and Reformed individuals have responses to these claims.

I would suggest reading Five Points of Calvinism Defended and Document by David Steele if you want to understand the topic better. It has tons of Scriptures supporting the position.

https://smile.amazon.com/Five-Point...lvinism+by+david+steele&qid=1570413197&sr=8-1

The fundamental issue, though, is how an unsaved person, with a stony and cold heart, can respond in faith and repentance? What has to happen for this to occur?

The answer is that God needs to give them a new heart.

In the free-will view, their claim is that you must reach a state of faith and repentance WITHOUT this new heart of flesh, and THEN you receive this new heart of flesh.

It is a nonsensical claim. I was raised believing this sort of nonsense, and I realize now how flawed and messed up their view is.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (ESV)

I would be glad to talk to HONEST people one on one about these topics. Feel free to email me if you want.

I have TONS of other Scriptures to support the Reformed position, but I recommend the above book. He explains the background of the Reformed position in fairly easy language.

Thank you.
I would certainly hope that those who choose to enter this thread do notice the sustaining resource links that I've added from time to time. And I did explain why I am doing this early on.

You see, people who are on the Net will sometimes search out religious forums so as to find information concerning the particular religion they may be interested in.
The Net provides an anonymous opportunity to do this when someone may be less inclined in such a pursuit off-line.

Because this particular community is dedicated to the faith in Christ and God almighty, those who may seek after understanding as to what it means to be in Christ, or , a Christian, I find it my duty when discussing a particular doctrine that falls under the banner of , Christian Denomination, to provide as much information as available to that end.

Calvinism turns Jesus passion on its ear. Calvinism is the Doctrine of a man, not at all able to be truly sustained by the teachings of Christ.
Calvinisms identity for its faithful, that of "The Elect of God", according to the doctrine of Calvinism itself makes Jesus' death on the cross unnecessary.
Because Calvinism teaches that God had predestined His Elect to be Saved even before Sin entered the world those persons would later inhabit.
Calvinism makes the individual's faith unnecessary in truth. Because God predestined those minority numbers who were born totally immoral, totally depraved, like the rest of the worlds people to be saved before He created the world. Those people would not need to actually hold faith in Jesus when God, according to Calvinism, predetermined to imbue His Elect with His grace whether or not they would accept it. That's why it is called Irresistible. God's will to bestow His grace upon those He identified as His Elect would be unable to resist, because God would overcome all barriers, which would include their Total Depravity, in order to save them against their own will because His will is Sovereign. And His Elect , by the purpose of His will, have no choice but to be saved. All according to the application of the TULIP principle.

Calvinism therefore is not in any way a reflection of the actual teachings of Jesus.
And it is my purpose in adding outside resource links that explain the failings of Calvinism in that regard so that those who are seeking after Christ will not be distracted by that which makes Christ's entire purpose on earth unnecessary.

 

[Whispered]

Reading your musings is aggravating because you are claiming things that Reformed people don't believe..for instance....no one claims that the elect are something special.

That is clearly untrue due to the identifier, Elect of God.

In fact, they believe God chooses foolish things so that he can glory in their salvation. If someone is one of the wise, noble, strong of this society, he would be less likely to choose them because he wants no one to be able to boast about their own inherent abilities in relation to salvation.

In fact, Calvinism, Re-Formed gospel doctrine, teaches God predetermined the Elect to be unable to resist his grace. That too would then make them special and set apart from those who , like the Elect, were born Totally Depraved. And shall die in that condition because they were not predestined to be God's elect so as to be blessed unable to resist the grace that saves from Hell.

1 Corinthians 1 intimates this.

With regard to Calvinism's TULIP? Not at all. Calvinism teaches God predetermined to choose, Elect, who would receive His "I" (The I in the TULIP Formula) "I"rresistible Grace so as to be saved. The Irresistible factor precludes free choice.
Whereas the Book of 1st Corinthians chapter 1 tells us all people are able to come to the saving faith in Christ and receive God's irrevocable gift of grace. Irrevocable! Not Irresistible.
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,2To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours: 3. Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

By the way, that's another issue with non-Reformed people. They simply DENY that God chooses or elects, when it is plain to see that he does. Either that, or they attempt to twist it around so that they claim God chooses them because they choose God, which in essence means that God doesn't choose, but they choose.

Now you there are actually refuting the Re-Formed Doctrine and the TULIP formula.
Irresistible Grace by definition in the Reformed Doctrine precludes choice. The entire encapsulation of the Reformed Doctrine is grounded in God's sovereignty over His creation. And the designation of, God's Elect, in that doctrine teaches that God chose whom would be saved from their Total Depravity and that is clear by the ideitnty such persons have as, the Elect OF God. God chose them. That is the definition of Elect. To choose.

Furthermore, the U in the TULIP formula, Unconditional Election, rebuts your claim that God doesn't choose, but those called the Elect choose.
Unconditional Election = God chose from eternity to save certain people, not based upon any foreseen virtue, faith, or anticipated acceptance of the Gospel. God chose to extend mercy to those He has specifically chosen and to withhold mercy from those not chosen. Those chosen receive salvation through Christ alone. Those not chosen receive wrath and damnation.

So, any mention of "election" or "choosing" is simply meaningless in their worldview. They can't even read the Bible with any level of comprehension due to their presuppositions.

See above.

Here is a question for you if you will indulge me.
How does it glorify the Creator of all things to predestine some people to be unable to resist His grace to be saved from Hell, while others He has predestined to receive His judgment unto Hell?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Thank you.
I would certainly hope that those who choose to enter this thread do notice the sustaining resource links that I've added from time to time. And I did explain why I am doing this early on.

You see, people who are on the Net will sometimes search out religious forums so as to find information concerning the particular religion they may be interested in.
The Net provides an anonymous opportunity to do this when someone may be less inclined in such a pursuit off-line.

Because this particular community is dedicated to the faith in Christ and God almighty, those who may seek after understanding as to what it means to be in Christ, or , a Christian, I find it my duty when discussing a particular doctrine that falls under the banner of , Christian Denomination, to provide as much information as available to that end.

Calvinism turns Jesus passion on its ear. Calvinism is the Doctrine of a man, not at all able to be truly sustained by the teachings of Christ.
Calvinisms identity for its faithful, that of "The Elect of God", according to the doctrine of Calvinism itself makes Jesus' death on the cross unnecessary.
Because Calvinism teaches that God had predestined His Elect to be Saved even before Sin entered the world those persons would later inhabit.
Calvinism makes the individual's faith unnecessary in truth. Because God predestined those minority numbers who were born totally immoral, totally depraved, like the rest of the worlds people to be saved before He created the world. Those people would not need to actually hold faith in Jesus when God, according to Calvinism, predetermined to imbue His Elect with His grace whether or not they would accept it. That's why it is called Irresistible. God's will to bestow His grace upon those He identified as His Elect would be unable to resist, because God would overcome all barriers, which would include their Total Depravity, in order to save them against their own will because His will is Sovereign. And His Elect , by the purpose of His will, have no choice but to be saved. All according to the application of the TULIP principle.

Calvinism therefore is not in any way a reflection of the actual teachings of Jesus.
And it is my purpose in adding outside resource links that explain the failings of Calvinism in that regard so that those who are seeking after Christ will not be distracted by that which makes Christ's entire purpose on earth unnecessary.

This person doesn't know what she's talking about.

Her thinking is all scrambled up, just like other individuals on this thread.

She doesn't understand that God ordains both the end and the means.

The end is to form a people for Christ. All things were created by and for him.

The means is through the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and being united with Him in faith.

There is nothing about Reformed theology that denies this.

In fact, understanding God's sovereignty and all the pieces represented by Reformed theology defines it thoroughly.

As I mentioned earlier, these people cannot comprehend that the unbeliever needs a heart of flesh to respond to God in faith and repentance. They have a cold and stony heart that cannot respond to God. Reformed theology teaches that God gives them this heart of flesh, and that is why they respond in faith and repentance.

In their theology, the unbeliever must respond in faith and repentance in order to RECEIVE this heart of flesh. As if such a heart can generate faith and repentance. Their claims are absurd.

Additionally, they do not have a coherent narrative of Scripture. One of the elements of this narrative is that Jesus is the second Adam. He reverses the effect of the sin of the first Adam. First, the unsaved person is born in Adam, and then, he is reborn and joined with Christ. They are missing a fundamental aspect of salvation because they don't understand the narrative of Scripture.

By the way, Whispered, I will likely create my own threads supporting each of the five points of Reformed theology, listing out the Scriptural support. I am sure you will fill this thread with your propaganda, so I will present each point in other threads if I deem it worth my while.

 

[Whispered]

I am going to retire for the evening as it is late here and I have work tomorrow. However, prior to this I wanted to say, there is one little thing to consider about Calvinism, Reformed Theology, and that community of its Elect.

When , per Calvinism, Reformed Theology, all persons are born Totally Depraved, how does someone who comes to hold faith in Christ as a Calvinist, Reformed Theology faithful, know they are that one predetermined by God to be His Elect? In a world where billions of people claim the name of Christ and yet are not Calvinists or Reformed Theology faithful.

May everyone here have a blessed and peaceful evening. God willing, I shall see you tomorrow.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I would suggest this set of messages to learn about Reformed Theology.

As I have said, the anti-Reformed individuals on this site constantly misrepresent Reformed theology. You cannot trust their representations of the teachings.

Additionally, while they accuse others of being condescending, they themselves do the very same things.

By the way, I openly admit that I consider anti-Reformed individuals to be ignorant, and possibly not converted. Why do I say that? Because I think if someone has actually been born-again, they would be able to understand the hardness and coldness of their heart prior to salvation, and understand the accuracy of the Reformed position relating to total depravity.

I don't think the same thing regarding non-Reformed individuals who are not hateful. I have several Christian friends who are not contentious regarding Reformed theology. I consider them to be fellow believers.

I was raised in a cultic organization as a young man. The behavior of the anti-Reformed individuals on this site is very comparable to the slanders of the cultic group toward Christianity.

It is sad to see professing Christians misrepresenting and lying about the teachings of other Christians.

Anyways, I would suggest this set of audio messages as a fair representation of Reformed theology:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....em=What+Is+Reformed+Theology?&AudioOnly=false

I also recommend the book Five Points of Calvinism by David Steele.

 

[Adstar]

There always seems to be resident calvinists on most religious forums i have been a member of.. They seem to like being involved in forums.. I have debated calvinists on different forums for over 10 years.. Now i often just post a post stating why i do not agree with calvinism and don't get caught up in endless debates on the subject.. Sadly most calvinists cannot change their minds.. They seem to be locked into the T.U.L.I.P doctrines..

Such is life..

 

[Melach]

Why do you blame God for what Adam did?

Adam is the one who rebelled against God. He was representing all of mankind in his decision.

I think that's part of the communication problem here. It's a failure to recognize the narrative of Scripture, which includes Creation, Fall, Rescue, and Restoration.

It's common that Christians don't consider how serious the Fall was, and the disastrous repercussions it had upon mankind.

Read Romans 5.

reason i do it is because in calvinism everything is predestinated right? that means the fall was predestinated to take place. which is why i put that on God, rebellion fo satan on God. everything is God's fault in reformed doctrine, i know you will say thats misrepresentation, im not understand, but i have understood and its clear to me, God is the cause of everything. the baptist confession 1689 contradicts itself by saying God decreed all that come to pass but then two sentences later says there is no evil in God whatsoever, its all through secondary causes and things like that. but if you truly believe God micromanages everything and thats sovereignity, then it means God is indeed responsible for every evil thing under the sun, no matter what the reformed say, thats what their own documents teach. only reason they explain it away like that and make excuses is because they have to make all the bible verses about God being only good fit the confessions.

i got nothing against you personally. i just hate the reformed doctrine thats all. just like you hate free will doctrine and think its false and people 'worship free will'. so much for representing accurately?

i never misrepresent reformed theology i have read and heard all arguments i just disagree with their conclusions thats it. if they say God predestines everything but God is not evil, and i say no thats not true. its not misrepresenting, i just disagree with their illogical conclusions thats it.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

There always seems to be resident calvinists on most religious forums i have been a member of.. They seem to like being involved in forums.. I have debated calvinists on different forums for over 10 years.. Now i often just post a post stating why i do not agree with calvinism and don't get caught up in endless debates on the subject.. Sadly most calvinists cannot change their minds.. They seem to be locked into the T.U.L.I.P doctrines..

Such is life..

I would say the same thing about anti-Reformed people.

In fact, I believe the reason God revealed predestination is to humble prideful man. His glory is his primary concern, and this concept is conveyed all throughout Scripture. Those who are vehemently anti-Reformed, I believe, are not so concerned with God's reputation, like they claim, but in exalting themselves. It is about THEM and it is not about God and his glory.

Pride and a lack of humility is such a massive problem within mankind. Most modern professing believers don't even have a clue how serious it is.

He is the Potter and the true believer is the clay. He is the sovereign LORD.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.
(ESV)

Romans 9:6-24 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
(ESV)

Notice that he is definitely talking about salvation, and not about nations.

And, the same objections are voiced here. If God created some for honor and some for dishonor, who are you to challenge it?

I don't challenge it. I just accept it and am humbled by it. My pridefulness and boasting has no place in salvation. God decided to extend mercy to me, and not to others. There was nothing inherent within me that merited it. In fact, I was radically corrupted by the Fall and had nothing to offer Him.

Anti-Reformed people really need to examine their pridefulness and lack of humility. While accusing others of it, they themselves are taking credit for their salvation. In essence, what they are saying is that there is something different, superior, about them that led to their salvation rather than someone else's. Some have came right out and said, yes, the reason I was saved and not someone else is that I was smart enough to accept it, and they were not. The Reformed person knows better than to say something like that, because they actually DO believe in grace alone (sola gratia).

 

[Melach]

how many times can you say misrepresentation? who has misrepresented anything? calvinism is like slippery moving goalpost. i will quote from a reformed source now and you tell me how this statements are not contradictory, unless even reformed are misrepresenting the reformed? they can weasel their way out of what they said previously like baptist confession 1689 chapter 3:

"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass."

this part means God predestines everything, decrees everything its as clear as can be, i am not misrepresenting anything. that means every sin anyone ever commits no how horrible is part of God's decrees. nobody can deny it. but now that this is said, lets continue in the same confession, because they know this is what people like me and all simple people will say that hey this makes God responsible for all evil. they have to make an excuse to get out of the way, move the goalpost again so they say:

"yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree."


this is how they got out of that logical conclusion of their first statement. they made a contradiction here in the same paragraph. God decrees all but no violence is offered to the will of creature and second causes bla bla bla God is not the author of sin nor have any fellowship with it (even tho He decreed all of it but okay).

how is this misrepresenting it? what part did i not understand here. its a contradicting statement and illogical and i just dont agree with it. so please stop saying i misrepresent it thats such a lame excuse i hear all the time.

 

[Grandpa]

Calvinism isn't for someone who wonders if they are a Christian. Calvinism isn't designed to bring people to Christ.


Calvinism is an explanation, to a SAVED individual, on HOW that Salvation occurred and why it occurred. It is an explanation on why YOU were saved and why perhaps someone else was not.

The bible says to work out your Salvation with fear and trembling. Calvinism is the end result of studying the scriptures and comparing it to the Salvation of God.


Most people who don't believe in Calvinism don't believe people are really even saved yet. Or they don't believe that the Lord Jesus has fulfilled what He said He would fulfill.

Calvinism really just boils down to saying God is Sovereign. There are a lot of people who don't like that. But not Saved People. Saved People are thrilled to find out that God is, in fact, Sovereign.

Even though we don't deserve to be Saved, God still saved us. Even though our work at righteousness fell short, God still Saved us. Even though we deserved punishment, God Has Mercy.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

There are 2 of the five point that I totally disagree with. So I will only address those two points. Limited atonement, run counter to so many scriptures that it's just not a matter of failed understanding. I think that the fallen state of man makes the will of a man predisposed to resist the grace of God, and that this resistance is the very essence of the problem. That some men will resist the grace of God unto the very end, and find himself condemned by his resistance.

 

[posthuman]

Calvinism, also called The Reformed Doctrine, cannot in all its formula, TULIP included, make sense of the crucifixion and still affirm its own tenets.

Why not?

What's the issue?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why not? What's the issue?

It should be clear to all Christians who do not read the Bible through the lens of TULIP that since Christ died for the sins of the whole world (all humanity) -- and this is clearly stated in the Bible -- then it cannot be possible that (a) Christ died only for the elect (Limited Atonement) or (b) that the offer of salvation is only to the so-called elect (Unconditional Election). Which also means that Irresistible Grace is a myth, and so is Total Depravity (which claims that the elect are regenerated BEFORE they are saved).

 

[Nehemiah6]

Calvinism really just boils down to saying God is Sovereign.

All Christians believe that God is sovereign. There can be absolutely no argument there.

But the Bible makes it crystal clear that in the matter of salvation we are to focus on THE GRACE OF GOD, not the sovereignty of God.

It is the grace of God which brings salvation to ALL MANKIND. Which also means that it is the grace of God which placed the sins of the whole world on the Lamb of God, and it is the grace of God which offers salvation to every sinner (all mankind). Therefore the Gospel is called *the Gospel of Grace* NOT *the Gospel of Sovereignty*.

And it is the power of the Gospel (which is called the power of God unto salvation) which draws all men to the Savior under the convicting and convincing power of the Holy Spirit. We know that all will not be saved. But that is not because God has excluded them but because they have refused to obey the Gospel.

 

[garee]

There are 2 of the five point that I totally disagree with. So I will only address those two points. Limited atonement, run counter to so many scriptures that it's just not a matter of failed understanding. I think that the fallen state of man makes the will of a man predisposed to resist the grace of God, and that this resistance is the very essence of the problem. That some men will resist the grace of God unto the very end, and find himself condemned by his resistance.

They are condemned by their dead resistance. Hearing God, as it is written is the gift. A man must be born again.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.John3: 18

Being dead in their trespasses and sin without a hope of a living God (no faith) .

But as many as the father has given to Son will come. No man can come unless the father gives them ears to hear and a new heart to believe Him not seen .

If he has begun the good work of salvation working in us to both will and do His good pleasure. . we will have the pleasure that he will finish it till the last day. (Philippians 1:6)

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

 

[Whispered]

reason i do it is because in calvinism everything is predestinated right? that means the fall was predestinated to take place. which is why i put that on God, rebellion fo satan on God. everything is God's fault in reformed doctrine, i know you will say thats misrepresentation, im not understand, but i have understood and its clear to me, God is the cause of everything. the baptist confession 1689 contradicts itself by saying God decreed all that come to pass but then two sentences later says there is no evil in God whatsoever, its all through secondary causes and things like that. but if you truly believe God micromanages everything and thats sovereignity, then it means God is indeed responsible for every evil thing under the sun, no matter what the reformed say, thats what their own documents teach. only reason they explain it away like that and make excuses is because they have to make all the bible verses about God being only good fit the confessions.

i got nothing against you personally. i just hate the reformed doctrine thats all. just like you hate free will doctrine and think its false and people 'worship free will'. so much for representing accurately?

i never misrepresent reformed theology i have read and heard all arguments i just disagree with their conclusions thats it. if they say God predestines everything but God is not evil, and i say no thats not true. its not misrepresenting, i just disagree with their illogical conclusions thats it.

Well put.
John Calvin's idea of God puts God in a very bad light. However, I would contend that is all due to John Calvin's state of mind concerning God. And as we know, has no thing to do with the actual proper context of God's word.

 

[Whispered]

Calvinism isn't for someone who wonders if they are a Christian. Calvinism isn't designed to bring people to Christ.


Calvinism is an explanation, to a SAVED individual, on HOW that Salvation occurred and why it occurred. It is an explanation on why YOU were saved and why perhaps someone else was not.

The bible says to work out your Salvation with fear and trembling. Calvinism is the end result of studying the scriptures and comparing it to the Salvation of God.


Most people who don't believe in Calvinism don't believe people are really even saved yet. Or they don't believe that the Lord Jesus has fulfilled what He said He would fulfill.

Calvinism really just boils down to saying God is Sovereign. There are a lot of people who don't like that. But not Saved People. Saved People are thrilled to find out that God is, in fact, Sovereign.

Even though we don't deserve to be Saved, God still saved us. Even though our work at righteousness fell short, God still Saved us. Even though we deserved punishment, God Has Mercy.

Limited Atonement = Christ died only for those whom God specifically pre-decided to save—the elect—but not for any others.

 

[Whispered]

There are 2 of the five point that I totally disagree with. So I will only address those two points. Limited atonement, run counter to so many scriptures that it's just not a matter of failed understanding. I think that the fallen state of man makes the will of a man predisposed to resist the grace of God, and that this resistance is the very essence of the problem. That some men will resist the grace of God unto the very end, and find himself condemned by his resistance.

According to Calvin's view of God and humanity, humans are created equal in that they are all born Totally Depraved. The T, in the TULIP formula that defines the Calvinist Doctrine.
Total Depravity = All men have inherited the sin of Adam through their parents and are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because of their own depraved, sinful nature which extends to every part of their personality.

This means no one on earth is able to hearken to the Good News of Christ of their own accord. Furthermore, contrary to the scriptures that tell us God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish in their sins but shall have immortal life, is not applicable under the TULIP formula Calvin created. Because Jesus did not die so as to take the sins of the world upon Himself on the cross.
Jesus, per Calvinism, died to save only those people He, as God, before all of creation, chose to be saved from the sin He'd not yet let come to pass. Because neither the world, nor the garden, nor the forbidden tree, nor Adam and Eve, had yet come to exist.
This is the L in the TULIP formula.
Limited Atonement = Christ died only for those whom God specifically pre-decided to save—the elect—but not for any others.

And once God created Adam and Eve, who had to eat of the fruit of the forbidden tree and then be condemned for that sin, transgression of God's law that had previously commanded they not eat of it, the TULIP plan of God could get underway. All humans born after Adam and Eve were born Totally Depraved.

The faith criteria we read of in the Gospels as pertains to the saving faith through the grace of God in Jesus Christ, only applies to those one's of us God predetermined before creation to receive His grace. And this a process He would have to affect Himself in us. Because we as the Totally Depraved are unable to change that condition of our own accord.
That leads us to the U factor in the TULIP formula.
Remember, all this was formulated by God before creation.

Unconditional Election = God chose from eternity to save certain people, not based upon any foreseen virtue, faith, or anticipated acceptance of the Gospel. God chose to extend mercy to those He has specifically chosen and to withhold mercy from those not chosen. Those chosen receive salvation through Christ alone. Those not chosen receive wrath and damnation.

Now, the U factor has already informed humanity that they are unable to come to Christ of their own accord, nor are they able to have faith, because they are eternally Totally Depraved unless they are one of the chosen God has predetermined to save from that condition so that they are then saved from the resultant damnation that awaits the Totally Depraved.
This is accompished through the I factor in the TULIP formula.

Irresistible Grace, that then removes the state of Total Depravity from that one who was predetermined before creation to be one of God's Elect, that allows that chosen one to then receive God's grace and eternal salvation. And this is because of the U factor in the TULIP formula.

And it all culminates for those predetermined saved persons, the Elect, in the P factor of the TULIP formula. The final step.
Perseverance of the Saints = Since God is sovereign and His will cannot be frustrated by humans or anything else, those whom God has called into communion with Himself will continue in faith until the end. They cannot be eternally lost.

While those who were not predetermined, before anything was created by God, to be the TULIP Elect, will die as the Totally Depraved and suffer eternally in the destiny God predestined for them; Hell.

It is true Calvinism does not lead a people to Christ. Because Calvinism's TULIP principle informs us of that. The Totally Depraved are incapable of overcoming that condition by any means at mortal disposal. Because of God's sovereign authority over all creation.

The question, on a planet populated by billions of people who profess Christ is, how do those who profess Christ now know they are actually truly God's elect?
Because they have faith! May be the response to that question.
And yet, the U factor, Unconditional Election, precludes that from being a proof. Because the Totally Depraved person who is actually to be one of God's Elect, cannot come to faith in Christ unless or until God bestows upon them His Irresistible Grace.

However, what is the discerning factor then between that person whom God knows is His Elect that has been anointed with his Irresistible Grace and that is why that person now claims faith in Christ, and that non Calvinist who holds faith in Christ because they chose to repent and redeem their sins and be regenerated in faith in the name of the Savior?

Is it the label that Elected one affords themselves? "Calvinist". "Reformed Theology faithful"?

See, that is the thing about Calvinism.
It tells us God does all the work and we are all born Totally Depraved until God releases that condition from those He predetermined to save before all of creation.
Meanwhile, in the eyes of the Calvinist, all people are Totally Depraved unless they are the Elect. And yet when there are billions of people who hold faith in Jesus how does that Calvinist discern which one's were actually truly saved according to the TULIP formula predetermined by God's own will?

Is it that there are actually billions of Calvinists alive on earth? And we just don't know that so we call ourselves instead, Baptist and Christian, Methodist and Christian, non-Denominational and Christian?

Calvinism defines an elitist paradigm concerning salvation. But first, it tells us that God is the author not of just the Elect who would be saved, but is the creator of everything that the Elect would need to be saved from.

 

[Whispered]

They are condemned by their dead resistance. Hearing God, as it is written is the gift. A man must be born again.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.John3: 18

Being dead in their trespasses and sin without a hope of a living God (no faith) .

But as many as the father has given to Son will come. No man can come unless the father gives them ears to hear and a new heart to believe Him not seen .

If he has begun the good work of salvation working in us to both will and do His good pleasure. . we will have the pleasure that he will finish it till the last day. (Philippians 1:6)

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Calvinism informs that our "Dead Resistance" is eternal and called, Total Depravity, unless God intercedes as part of his predetermined plan to excise His Elect from that condition.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Calvinism is said to be making a resurgence in America of late. I don't know about that (article), however, I do know it appears to be surging through BDF here.
Calvinism, also called The Reformed Doctrine, cannot in all its formula, TULIP included, make sense of the crucifixion and still affirm its own tenets.

The article below is intended for all people here. Those who may be seeking after Salvation in our Lord. And those who are Christian and to whom the Reformed message says are quite possibly deluding themselves when we think we are saved.
One would also wonder, how does a Calvinist know they are one of the Elect for certain? Because John Calvin said there is such a thing? And "you" are it?
At the end of this article there is an observation and that which led me to share the entire article here due to the truth within it and the reminder to all who hold God most dear. "If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace?"

3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
By Jeremy Myers



In my current series on Calvinism, I have had several Calvinists leave comments about their areas of disagreement with what I have written.
I fully expect and invite disagreement. Please … if you are a Calvinist and disagree with what I am writing, let me know, and present your views!
However, I have noticed a trend in the comments that have been left by Calvinists thus far. There seems to be three main tactics or approaches that Calvinists have used in their attempts to defend their ideas and disprove mine.
1. Name Calling

It always surprises me how quickly some Calvinists turn to name calling as a way to defend their ideas. If you are not a Calvinist and seek to teach your views, be prepared to be called a heretic, a reprobate, a mouthpiece of Satan, and a fool. Some Calvinists may simply say that you are stupid, ignorant, or spiritually blind.
When I was in grade-school, I never understood why some kids thought they could win arguments by calling other people names, and I still don’t understand it today.
Very rarely is there any proper place in serious theological discussion for cajoling, slander, vilification, and the mocking of others.
If you are a Calvinist and you believe that I am stupid, ignorant, and the mouthpiece of Satan because I am not a Calvinist, show it by the weight of your exegetical arguments; not by calling me silly names.
2. Scripture Quotations
Along with name calling, Calvinists seem to think that everybody would become a Calvinist if they would just “read their Bible.” I often find that when Calvinists disagree, they think they can settle the argument by telling the person to go “read their Bible.”
Of course, I find this tactic used by many various groups within Christianity. Most people seem to think that what they believe is exactly what the Bible teaches, and if people would read the Bible, they would come to the same beliefs.

What many Calvinists do not seem to grasp is that reading the Bible is one thing; understanding it is another. Even highly educated and well-respected scholars and Bible teachers disagree with each other about the meaning of the text.
Do I read and study the Bible? Of course! I have been reading and studying it for decades. In fact, it is exactly because of my reading and studying that I eventually abandoned Calvinism.
Often, along with inviting non-Calvinists to just “read the Bible,” Calvinists like to type out longs lists of Bible quotes which the Calvinists thinks proves and defends the Calvinistic system of theology.
Their approach goes like this:

You heretic! If you had simply read the Bible, you would know that you are filled with the lies of the devil! Here’s proof:​

Bible Quotation 1​

Bible Quotation 2​

Bible Quotation 3​

etc …​

In fact, one classic book on Calvinism (The Five Points of Calvinism) contains little else but pages upon pages of Bible quotations.
In a post from several years ago, I referred to this tactic as Shotgun Hermeneutics. Some people seem to think they can win theology debates by simply quoting a lot of Bible verses, as if the other person was not aware of those verses and had never read them in the Bible.
Usually, when Calvinists do this to me, I simply reply with a comment like this:

I am fully aware of all of these verses. I have read them many, many times, and I have deeply studied most of them in the Greek or Hebrew, as well as in their historical, cultural, and grammatical contexts. I simply have a different understanding of these verses than you do, and if you read some of the others posts on this blog, you will learn how I understand those texts you quoted.​

Of course, Calvinists think their understanding of Scripture is the only valid one, and part of this is because of their appeals to tradition and authority.
3. Appeals to Tradition and Authority
The final tactic that Calvinists often use to defend Calvinism is with appeals to tradition and authority. Usually, if you disagree with a Calvinist on the meaning of a particular Bible verse, rather than deal with the exegetical evidence that was prevented about the verse, they will say that your understanding is wrong, because it disagrees with what John Calvin, John Piper, or John MacArthur teaches (or some other Calvinist).

I have a book in my library where an extremely popular Calvinist in which he lays and defends the Calvinistic doctrines. When I first read it, I was a Calvinist, but I remember being extremely uncomfortable with how he defended his views. Rather than base his arguments on a detailed analysis of pertinent Scripture texts, he tended to quote St. Augustine (who predated Calvinism), John Calvin, and other prominent Calvinistic theologians.
There is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out that other Bible teachers and scholars agree with your views, but the trouble comes in when some people seem ignorant of the fact that there are many good and respectable Bible teachers and scholars who disagree.
Furthermore, I always find it interesting that Calvinists praise men like Martin Luther and John Calvin for seeking to reform the traditional teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but then condemn those who want to reform the traditional teachings of the Calvinistic system of theology.
Anyway, even though you can quote a bunch of scholars, authors, and Bible teachers who agree with your perspective, this does not prove that your view is correct.
Main Problem: A Lack of Grace
The main irony or problem with lots of the disagreement that comes from Calvinists is that it lacks grace.
Usually, when a Calvinist engages in the 3 tactics listed above, it is done with a complete lack of grace. I find this most troubling. Why is it that Calvinists, who claim to teach ‘The Doctrines of Grace” are so ungracious when dealing with those who disagree?
If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace? I think so.

Whispered, I have had discussions with you on other threads, and am curious whether you think my discussions fit the description you have stated in this thread. I have told you that I have never read John Calvin's writings, nor do I refer to any other writings of men's interpretations of the scriptures. I believe the scriptures prove themselves when all scriptures are taken in consideration and they should all harmonize before you are able to understand the doctrine of Jesus. If I have called you by any undesirable names, please call my attention to them and I will apologize.