Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

You quoted "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees you won't enter the Kingdom of God."

I showed that righteousness doesn't come by working at the law like the scribes and Pharisees did.

Righteousness comes by Faith in Christ.


So would you rather be righteous or would you rather work at the law?

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Those who work at the law DO NOT have righteousness. Your righteousness will not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees by doing what they did. Which is working at the law by their own understanding.


Righteousness is by Faith in Christ.


So you have to decide. Do you want to work at the law? Or do you want to be Righteous by Faith in Christ?


If you want your righteousness to exceed that of the scribes and pharisees you can't continue working at the law the way they did. You have to find REAL Righteousness which is only in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


The Lord told us He would give us Rest from our work at the law. Peter tells us to not be led away with the error of the wicked. Which is the same error as the Pharisees. Working at the law in their OWN understanding and NOT coming to Christ in Faith.

Coming to Christ is where ALL of our blessings are. They are not in our understanding or our strength or our work at the law.

Yes, all our blessings come from Christ. What do you do with those blessings? Go, teach, baptize? Spread the good news?
What if you needed to have learned the Word and walked the straight and narrow along with the righteousness afforded you through Christ? What if that is the righteousness that must exceed? It really wouldn't be hard to do with the spirit that is dwelling with you, would it? I would think being a "light" in the world would require you to do what is " right" in the eyes of God or else all you are shinning out is of you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Manners maketh man. One of my favorite sayings outside of the holy scripture.
Anyway You said you seek to learn, love and you seek to follow Jesus. And you said you follow a set of rules and which exposes your sin. Funny you would not say laws. Well if you’re seeking and following then you’re doing, therefore you’re working.

I make no self proclamation whatsoever. Other than this, as Paul, It is God that works in us both to will and do his good pleasure. He doeth the work. Not I but Christ.

For it is written, he will put His commandments in our hearts and in his mind will He write them. He also says His words are in our hearts and in our mouths that we may do it. So please tell me again what is it that you do?

You totally misunderstood what imsaid,

i was not talking about me following rules

 

[DeighAnn]

Deuteronomy 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

I see this as being as valid to anyone wishing to a part of Gods holy people. I believe this to be a fact, forever and ever and ever.

I do this by loving God and all His Word. I study and learn His ways and follow as best I can and repenting when I allow my flesh to take charge and transgress any of His ways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I need to get it understood.

Matthew 24:2 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.

What about "love fulfills the law" no connection there huh.

Matthew 22:36-40, " 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 19:16-19, " 16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Yes none of use are sinless, I am not sinless, yetobedience to what God's says does not = sinless. For John wrote both of these verses;

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

You are never going to convince anyone just talking at them telling them what they need to do.

You need to understand

break one command your done

you can not say you obey the law when you don’t

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As you will see I never claimed you said that, I was asking that was in the form of a question, and yes about the law.

This was written post death, burial, resurrection, and ascention:

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

I guess NOT sinning has become a bad thing these days.

i guess beqring false witness is ok these days?

you need to wake up, you cant hear a word people say to you because you are single minded

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That has bearing on everything. Just as you see me missing "the point", I see in you. I am not burdened with "being perfect" something I, a sinner, can not be. But I can try. And if God died so that I could be forgiven when I mess up, I better keep trying or else what was it all for?

If I am not perfect? God knows I am not perfect. God knows in this flesh I will never be perfect. If I could be perfect He would not have come Himself and died. When I acknowledge to Him MY imperfection before Him, I also acknowledge His perfection. His Holiness, and my accepting of His Sacrifice, and my faith in His forgiveness, and as unworthy as I may be, my worthiness of that forgiveness.

I chose to follow ALL the words of Jesus, my Lord and Saviour. I am not wise enough to decided which words to follow and which words to not. I do not just walk in and with love, but also on the path that the commands given in the Word, keep my feet upon. I need His direction and guidance. I acknowledge my sinful flesh nature that I must crucify daily to be in obedience to Him. I discipline my mind and my heart to be more Christlike in all I do by staying in that Word, and out of the World. I try to, just as Christ did to the Father as he walked, follow the commands. If I do not know and follow His ways, I am just trying to do it my way.

It all comes back to Cain and Abel.

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Genesis 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Cain did it his way. Abel did it Gods way.

So not only do I follow the command to Love God with all my heart and my neighbor as myself, I follow to the best of my ability all the ways that are acceptable to God. I know they are acceptable to God because "it is written". I believe in repentance and forgiveness by the blood of the Lamb. I am not lying to myself and telling myself I am perfect, quite the contrary. But I am showing and telling God that I believe His ways ARE, to me, and I would like to be. I am striving to be "perfect" in a world that will persecute me for that very thing. But that is ok because it is written this is how it would be.

As you know, I believe the "law" as in the law of Moses, was done away and Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein which are offered by the law
Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

I believe that in order to bring in a New Covenant that the first Covenant that was waxing old, decaying and ready to vanish, went away with the blood of Jesus on Cross, so that this period under Grace, the kingdom of God, would reign for all. I believe because the mystery that the kingdom would be offered to "all", meaning the gentiles also, a New Covenant covering "all" had to be put in place. I do not believe God would leave to us "to speculate" on our own what was and was not valid, just as I do not believe He leaves us to speculate on which commands are or are not to be followed in the New Covenant. I am living in the Masters house, I better follow the Masters rules for the House.

So what it comes down to is I believe if I break the law and I repent, that I will be forgiven. As such, I am required to try, yet unburdened by "the perfection" or "fear" of not being perfect in doing so.

If your trying to follow the law you better be perfect.

we are not discussing being obedient, we are discussing following the law,

huge difference

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First I find it funny, so I'm supppoed to repent of seeking to follow God's righteous standard? That is comical.

Isaiah 8:20, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
(see Rev 14:12 below - Law and to the Testimony )

One can't focus on Jesus and reject the law.

Matthew 5:17-20, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

A focus on Jesus is in part learning His words and how He walked. He was the perfect exacmple.

John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

You see His people keep His law and have faith in Him;

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

Whats funny is you think you CAN follow gods righteous standard

how can you be usefull to god if you can not even admit you can not follow his standard?
i feel sorry for you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So what was self righteous about anything I have said? Also funny how you posted this as your last reply to me:







Well now you have.

and His law is love;

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Matthew 22:37-40, " 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 7:12-14, " 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

but you have called a desire to follow His law self-righteousness? Odd.

Rev 12: 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on
those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Isaiah 8:20, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Yawn

once again i feel like i am talking to a wall

when your ready to listen to what i am saying come get Me

until hen, i leave you to your task

 

[eternally-gratefull]

With the "correct guidance" it not only can. It shall!
But, yer not gonna get it from "man." Nor "precepts" of men!
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
By doing this:
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

And a whole LOTTA this:
1 John 4
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

But how? Ya stab and slash it with the sword of the Spirit, ya got inside yer coconut! It's there!
Ask God How to use it! He'll teach you!
Man, and precepts of man, won't!

Yawn

whatever dude

good luck

 

[wokinluv]

he gave moses the law, THEN told them (us). We must obey every word or we are cursed, he told us through james if we keep the whole law, yet fall in just one minor point we are guilty of all

you can not follow the law. No one can, only christ did.

but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:3-5

The same things are what the devil is using to deceive God's creation. The devil doesn't want us to follow God's commandments and would twist His words to mean otherwise.

God said, "you would surely die"

The serpent said, "you will not surely die"

Then God gave His laws and commandments to His people but they were deceived and were led by the devil to disobey God.

Then God sent His only begotten Son to save His people from the coming wrath of God.

What do you think is the devil's deception in this last days?

"Do not listen to God, no one can keep His laws and commandments so why should you?"

"You will not surely die if you don't keep His laws and commandments"

Someone may ask, how is this possible?

And here's what the false prophets in these last days would say...

"Once saved, you are always saved."

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHETS WILL APPEAR AND DECEIVE many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the LOVE of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:10-13

well since on sin brings about the curse.

and we have all had many sins

guess there is no possibility of obedience concerning the law

you need to get it understood, obedience to god is NOT obedience to the law., you can not fulfill that standard, thats why you needed christ in the first place

You need to understand

break one command your done

you can not say you obey the law when you don’t

Whats funny is you think you CAN follow gods righteous standard

how can you be usefull to god if you can not even admit you can not follow his standard?
i feel sorry for you

You need to understand

break one command your done

you can not say you obey the law when you don’t

If your trying to follow the law you better be perfect.

we are not discussing being obedient, we are discussing following the law,

huge difference

“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:33-37

 

[Grandpa]

Never said anything about working at the Law.
You did not answer the question, Whose faith?

I didn't answer the question??

It's our Faith, after it is given to us as a Gift by Christ.

It's our Righteousness, after it is given to us as a Gift by Christ.

It's our Salvation, after it is given to us as a Gift by Christ.

It's our Wisdom, after it is given to us as a Gift by Christ.


But it all comes from our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


Now, let's not get off the topic that you brought up. Righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees.

Will we be Righteous because we rest on Saturdays or because we Rest in Christ?

 

[Grandpa]

Yawn

once again i feel like i am talking to a wall

when your ready to listen to what i am saying come get Me

until hen, i leave you to your task

I think you may be waiting awhile EG...

 

[Guojing]

But Jesus did teach us to teach them. Very specifically. Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. If you do not teach "the law" where else are you to gain and teach the wisdom and knowledge and moral applications contained within them? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. No the gentiles are not "under" the law, but they are "under God" and to teach that any of His Word is to be "excluded" would be unwise.

If you love someone with all your heart and mind and soul and they wrote you a letter, wouldn't ever word of it be important to you? If you were the one who wrote the letter, all of it being very valuable, wouldn't you be a little concerned if when you finally saw that person and you asked what they thought if they said, I didn't really care about that part, it didn't seem to apply to me and my situation? I don't know, we are all different but I wouldn't teach that way.

Are you the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

 

[Grandpa]

Are you the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

I once was lost, but now I'm found.

 

[DeighAnn]

If your trying to follow the law you better be perfect.

we are not discussing being obedient, we are discussing following the law,

huge difference

I believe Paul when he writes

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.(The OLD COVENANT)

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law (the OLD COVENANT) by the body of Christ that ye should be married to another, (THE NEW COVENANT) even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

So you see, I am married to a new husband, so that I do not, under any circumstance, have to follow it perfectly

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
I am living with the gift of repentance and forgiveness. (With my new husband)

Gods people may HAVE HAD to be perfect before Christ, but I believe in ALL the work Christ did, all the things He said, and all the forgiveness He gives. It is through faith that the Holy Spirit dwells and works in my life, and it is that spirit in me that compels me to follow the law. There is no way the law giver could reside in me and me not follow the law.

To teach others if they chose to follow the law, they can only do so if they follow them perfectly, without forgiveness is nothing short of negating the work of Christ.

You follow the commandments "to love" do you not? When you chose to follow those how did you decide to not follow the rest of the commandments given by Jesus? What verse made you decide that you would stop there? I never hear you speak of the new covenant, except for the law of love. When you speak on the law it is only the law of Moses and quoting the things that were contrary to us, not the freedom from them that the New Covenant gave us?

I hear you speak of the curse of the law, is there STILL a curse? not if you believe Jesus died on the Cross. Do you or don't you believe this next passage, and if you do, why do you bring BACK the curse?

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Is it a sin to not follow the law perfectly? Yes. Is that a sin that can be forgiven? Yes.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures

 

[DeighAnn]

Are you the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Not with proof by any paper trail. Are you?

 

[Guojing]

Not with proof by any paper trail. Are you?

So Jesus will reply to you Matthew 15:24.

He raised Paul specifically to teach you, as stated about 14 times in scripture.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Though I believe the old covenant has "been replaced" by the new one, I do NOT think that any of the wisdom or knowledge or moral obligations of it have changed. I just believe it no longer "stands" as it once did as the ruling force of the nation, and as the gentiles have been included, a new covenant had to be brought in. We know the sacrifices and the ceremonies and the priests duties are no longer "followed" with the life and death and rising of Jesus. Jesus became our Passover and our rest. Christians are scattered all over the world each country having their own governments and civil courts, land deeds etc. So I do not believe it has passed, it is just no longer "the law" we are "under". We have a new and better one that does what the old one could not. We are under grace, repentance and forgiveness, unburdened from carrying around our sins, or going through any rituals or people to them.

I think we are in almost full agreement here, we may explain differently but I agree with everything except one principle. Actually even in the OT Gentiles could follow God and be as the native born, however, adn this is a big one, man made laws were in place to stop this. But according to the word, Gentiles that kept the Passover could enter in ans be as a native born:

Exodus 12:48-49, " 48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. 49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.”

I think this is really amazing, especially considering Jesus is the true Passover and God knows the end from the beginning!

 

[DeighAnn]

So Jesus will reply to you Matthew 15:24.

He raised Paul specifically to teach you, as stated about 14 times in scripture.

Absolutely. I believe Pauls teachings. I just don't seem to arrive at the same "conclusions" as some others do. I even try to quote him. But based on my family tree, I would give it a 75-80% "lost sheep" heritage. You?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

You need to understand

break one command your done

you can not say you obey the law when you don’t

You need to meet Jesus.

Well somehow you think all obedience to the law mans Im thinking Im perfect. I also think you misunderstand James.

James does say "For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all."

Now if you isolate that and run off in glee witnessing against the law that is error IMO. Because he also says;

"Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law"

"So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”"

"become doers of the Word"

"he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work"

James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”

James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”

Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"

Consider this a sin worthy of death means we need mercy, that does not mean we then reject God's law because we sinned! No we then ask for mercy, repent and seek to walk in His ways.

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Jesus Christ, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Ezekiel 18:21-23, " 21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"

These people here, they honor God's law:

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”