What do you mean when you say, "The Bible is the Word of God"?

[Dibby53]

Also in the last plaque against Pharaoh was the killing of all first born children.

But again is it murder when God who creates life decides to end life?

Each of these commands are no error but direct commands from God.

Your making a moral judgment about the creator of morality. Basically saying you would of been more compassionate or more loving with your finite knowledge of how evil these people where. For all you know God could forsee the future of these kids and the only hope for soul salvation was to remove them before they gained the knowledge of sin.

After all God is in the business of soul salvation not longevity on Earth.

Yes, it is murder. Because God doesn't carry it out. People do. For genocide to happen one first has to dehumanise the "other". The nazis did it to the jews and murdered 6 million of them. Isis terrorists do it to the "unbeliever" and "infidel". Again I repeat. If someone hears voices in their head telling telling them to murder people we lock them away. It is worrying that for people to consider me a real Christian ( I accept that I will probably always be an outsider to alot of people on here) that I would need to defend the indefensible in order to maintain biblical inerrancy. Read 1 Corinthians 13, or the sermon on the mount alongside these murderous passages and see if you think that it really was God commanding these things.
In the burning of heretics in the middle ages it was often assumed that you were doing them a favour. Since you were destroying the body to save the soul; "after all God is in the business of soul salvation not longevity on Earth", right?
What you say about the children is really disturbing. That God commanded their murder to prevent them from sinning! What about the animals? They didn't and couldn't sin. If you knew for sure that God told you to go into a town and wipe it out would you do it?

Roughsoul, I,m not trying to upset anyone on here (which I appear to do...hello Hevosmies...). But if to be a true believer I need to believe in inerrancy then I don't think I can.

 

[Dibby53]

You are just looking at everything from the HUMANINISTIC point of view. You dont view humans as evil devil sinners as God does. Stop the man-centered theology and move to a GOD-centered theology.

You are the Romans 9:20 man.....
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

DONT TALK BACK TO GOD. He is God, WE are not. Our job is to be humble and keep our MOUTH SHUT, obey the Gospel and bear fruit for God's kingdom.

Are you a bearer of the fruit of God then, Hevosmies?

 

[p_rehbein]

I'm thinking that some popcorn is in order.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes, it is murder. Because God doesn't carry it out. People do. For genocide to happen one first has to dehumanise the "other". The nazis did it to the jews and murdered 6 million of them. Isis terrorists do it to the "unbeliever" and "infidel". Again I repeat. If someone hears voices in their head telling telling them to murder people we lock them away. It is worrying that for people to consider me a real Christian ( I accept that I will probably always be an outsider to alot of people on here) that I would need to defend the indefensible in order to maintain biblical inerrancy. Read 1 Corinthians 13, or the sermon on the mount alongside these murderous passages and see if you think that it really was God commanding these things.
In the burning of heretics in the middle ages it was often assumed that you were doing them a favour. Since you were destroying the body to save the soul; "after all God is in the business of soul salvation not longevity on Earth", right?
What you say about the children is really disturbing. That God commanded their murder to prevent them from sinning! What about the animals? They didn't and couldn't sin. If you knew for sure that God told you to go into a town and wipe it out would you do it?

Roughsoul, I,m not trying to upset anyone on here (which I appear to do...hello Hevosmies...). But if to be a true believer I need to believe in inerrancy then I don't think I can.

Your missing the part that God commanded the Israelites, Moses or Joshua to do the events of the OT. Find me scripture where God didn't tell them to do so.

Read 1 Corinthians 13, or the sermon on the mount alongside these murderous passages and see if you think that it really was God commanding these things.

Yes what of it? The acts in the OT was God commanded to a certain people to do a certain thing. It doesn't include believers today.

What you say about the children is really disturbing. That God commanded their murder to prevent them from sinning! What about the animals? They didn't and couldn't sin. If you knew for sure that God told you to go into a town and wipe it out would you do it?

There is no way for me to know God's will or reasons of judgment. Often times innocent people do get caught in God's judgment of the wicked. Look at how Daniel and his friends was exiled and the Israelites killed or enslaved by the Babylonians. That was God's judgment on his own people.

I was just saying a example. You do not know God's reasons as he is all knowing and all seeing. Animals have nothing to do with this. God also commanded Abraham to sacrifice his Son but stopped him last minute.

If God commanded us today to go and slaughter a town. We still wouldn't do it.... what?! Why? Because God also said in his written word do not listen to anything from the original teachings as to they are all of false teachers or evil.

Roughsoul, I,m not trying to upset anyone on here (which I appear to do...hello Hevosmies...). But if to be a true believer I need to believe in inerrancy then I don't think I can

Your not upsetting me. I'm trying to say that to be a Christian you must believe the Word of God. Otherwise what you speak will not be Biblical or accurate. Have you read Revelations? The God of the OT is the same God in the NT. You are just seeing both sides of God.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Your missing the part that God commanded the Israelites, Moses or Joshua to do the events of the OT. Find me scripture where God didn't tell them to do so.



Yes what of it? The acts in the OT was God commanded to a certain people to do a certain thing. It doesn't include believers today.



There is no way for me to know God's will or reasons of judgment. Often times innocent people do get caught in God's judgment of the wicked. Look at how Daniel and his friends was exiled and the Israelites killed or enslaved by the Babylonians. That was God's judgment on his own people.

I was just saying a example. You do not know God's reasons as he is all knowing and all seeing. Animals have nothing to do with this. God also commanded Abraham to sacrifice his Son but stopped him last minute.

If God commanded us today to go and slaughter a town. We still wouldn't do it.... what?! Why? Because God also said in his written word do not listen to anything that differs from the original teachings as to they are all of false teachers or evil.



Your not upsetting me. I'm trying to say that to be a Christian you must believe the Word of God. Otherwise what you speak will not be Biblical or accurate. Have you read Revelations? The God of the OT is the same God in the NT. You are just seeing both sides of God.

Edited

 

[Dibby53]

"Your missing the part that God commanded the Israelites, Moses or Joshua to do the events of the OT"

No. I,m not missing it. I,m questioning it.

"Yes what of it? The acts in the OT was God commanded to a certain people to do a certain thing. It doesn't include believers today."

That really is good news. At least the Wiccans will be able to sleep safely in their beds tonight!

 

[Dibby53]

Roughsoul,
I thought you might be interested in this article looking at things from a jewish perspective.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/genocide-in-the-torah/
An interesting take on it. What do you think?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

"Your missing the part that God commanded the Israelites, Moses or Joshua to do the events of the OT"

No. I,m not missing it. I,m questioning it.

"Yes what of it? The acts in the OT was God commanded to a certain people to do a certain thing. It doesn't include believers today."

That really is good news. At least the Wiccans will be able to sleep safely in their beds tonight!

God chose a certain people to do His will. God often times in the OT worked in his people or even the enemy to bring about judgment on who he chose to judge. God could of known if these children was to grow up evil. And yes Heaven is greater than life on Earth.

God is still just to bring judgment on whole cities because even the infant carries the sinful nature from the fall of humanity through Adam.

Psalm 58:3 New International Version (NIV)
3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

But God who judges righteously will not damn them to hell as those who are not mentally aware of good and bad will enter Gods rest.

Deuteronomy 1:39 New International Version (NIV)
39 And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.

This land is the promise land or God's rest as explained in Hebrews which is a deeper example of God's promise rest in the eternal. The children will enter this rest.

Romans 7:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
8 For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

There are two laws. Roman's 2 speaks on the law of the Heart or moral law and of course the written law. Before Paul knew of such things he was alive but once the age of accountability came and he could understand the commandments to turn from sin, he then died to sin.

You are thinking too much of Earth. Heaven is the greatest thing unimaginable. Think of the best things in life both beauty and love and nothing on Earth compares to this. If God saw that these children living in a extremely wicked city would grow up and follow the lives of their ancestors then by bringing judgment on sin they get off quite easily in a free pass to Heaven.

But this is only a assumption because I do not have the mind and power of God. I read the same book. God commanded it and God doesn't go against his nature of being all just, loving, all knowing, and all powerful. So when God commands actions we must remember we do see the whole picture. For all we know by bringing judgment on all of the citizens including children it could be God's foreknowledge to prevent future evil.

 

[Dibby53]

God chose a certain people to do His will. God often times in the OT worked in his people or even the enemy to bring about judgment on who he chose to judge. God could of known if these children was to grow up evil. And yes Heaven is greater than life on Earth.

God is still just to bring judgment on whole cities because even the infant carries the sinful nature from the fall of humanity through Adam.

Psalm 58:3 New International Version (NIV)
3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

But God who judges righteously will not damn them to hell as those who are not mentally aware of good and bad will enter Gods rest.

Deuteronomy 1:39 New International Version (NIV)
39 And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.

This land is the promise land or God's rest as explained in Hebrews which is a deeper example of God's promise rest in the eternal. The children will enter this rest.

Romans 7:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
8 For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

There are two laws. Roman's 2 speaks on the law of the Heart or moral law and of course the written law. Before Paul knew of such things he was alive but once the age of accountability came and he could understand the commandments to turn from sin, he then died to sin.

You are thinking too much of Earth. Heaven is the greatest thing unimaginable. Think of the best things in life both beauty and love and nothing on Earth compares to this. If God saw that these children living in a extremely wicked city would grow up and follow the lives of their ancestors then by bringing judgment on sin they get off quite easily in a free pass to Heaven.

But this is only a assumption because I do not have the mind and power of God. I read the same book. God commanded it and God doesn't go against his nature of being all just, loving, all knowing, and all powerful. So when God commands actions we must remember we do see the whole picture. For all we know by bringing judgment on all of the citizens including children it could be God's foreknowledge to prevent future evil.

So by your reasoning you would have no problem with abortion? Since the babies will go to heaven they are spared living an adult life, and thus risking making the wrong choice and being damned.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Roughsoul,
I thought you might be interested in this article looking at things from a jewish perspective.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/genocide-in-the-torah/
An interesting take on it. What do you think?

I believe this article is from non Christian Jews. So they will be coming from a whole different perspective. They will not have commandments like the sermon on the mount. So no wonder they have been debating for years on how to handle their enemies that surround them.

The general consensus among today’s Jewish community seems to be that our energies can and must be used to stop the perpetuation of genocidal activity occurring throughout the world, to become agents for peace, and to dismiss any contemporary comparisons to the biblical paradigm. But clearly there are difficult texts and teaching that remain in our tradition that must be remembered and reckoned with.

From my understanding they are also not denying what God commanded in the Torah but instead debating on how they should respond to their enemies today.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So by your reasoning you would have no problem with abortion? Since the babies will go to heaven they are spared living an adult life, and thus risking making the wrong choice and being damned.

Nope because that isnt a choice by us to make. But if a evil person decides to kill the child then thankfully atleast the child is being loved by God and not abandoned by the mother and mutilated by the Dr.

Again is differing between God's actions and man. We are told to defend innocent life in the new Testament.

 

[Dibby53]

I believe this article is from non Christian Jews. So they will be coming from a whole different perspective. They will not have commandments like the sermon on the mount. So no wonder they have been debating for years on how to handle their enemies that surround them.



From my understanding they are also not denying what God commanded in the Torah but instead debating on how they should respond to their enemies today.

Yes. Since the jews wrote their scriptures I find it interesting that many of their greatest scholars have a different interpretation of the genocidal texts. The Talmud is the commentary on the Torah. And I find it interesting that some of their greatest thinkers have spent centuries wrestling with what the Torah means and what God is saying through it. Not many seem to be literalists that just read the surface meanings. Now that is something I could possibly get onboard with.

 

[Dibby53]

Nope because that isnt a choice by us to make. But if a evil person decides to kill the child then thankfully atleast the child is being loved by God and not abandoned by the mother and mutilated by the Dr.

Again is differing between God's actions and man. We are told to defend innocent life in the new Testament.

So if ancient people say they heard from God, it is ok to kill an infant. But if a doctor aborts one (I,m not in favour by the way) then that is wrong? BUT, if the baby that is not aborted doesnt choose Christ as an adult, then he/she is damned to the Lake of Fire for eternity? Hmmmm.....which is better by your reasoning?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So if ancient people say they heard from God, it is ok to kill an infant. But if a doctor aborts one (I,m not in favour by the way) then that is wrong? BUT, if the baby that is not aborted doesnt choose Christ as an adult, then he/she is damned to the Lake of Fire for eternity? Hmmmm.....which is better by your reasoning?

Do you believe God spoke to Moses, Joshua or Samuel? I am trying to understand your reasoning. Do you believe the OT or not? Scripture says

1 Samuel 15 New International Version (NIV)
The Lord Rejects Saul as King
15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand from Judah. 5 Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. 6 Then he said to the Kenites, “Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

7 Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. 8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves[b] and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.

It is simple. If you read anything else into the text then they are only assumptions which is poor reasoning.

If a Dr claims Yahweh told them to abort children then they must prove it by the Word because scripture tells us how to test the spirits, prophets, and teachers. If their message contradicts the NT then they are false and led by the evil one.

A adult has two destinations. Either Heaven or Hell. They have a choice. Jesus is our only hope. Anyone in Hell chose that destination by denying God's gift of salvation through grace by faith.

 

[Lightskin]

To me the Bible is made up of manuscripts that has been decided upon by the catholic church as authoritative and inspirational. Irenaeus, the early church father, had 21 books that he considered authoritative. And I don't think the final form that the bible took was finally settled until the 1500s at the Council of Trent (Revelation was a late entry for inclusion). To this day there are slight variations between the catholic, protestant and orthodox versions of scripture. Also modern scholarly analysis of the letters of St. Paul have shown that it wasn't the same person who wrote them all (the letters to Timothy, for example, were not written by the person who wrote collosians). So while scripture is useful for inspiring and edifying us, I don't consider it absolute or infallible. To me the Word of God is not a book, but Christ. And as we read it the word of God is the meaning and wisdom Christ gives us as we read scripture.
For the first 500 years of Christianity there was no bible as we understand it. So they couldn't have thought of the "Word of God" as the bible we have.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing what your understanding is. Thanks guys. X

Translation: Dibby’s Catholic.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

To me the Bible is made up of manuscripts that has been decided upon by the catholic church as authoritative and inspirational. Irenaeus, the early church father, had 21 books that he considered authoritative. And I don't think the final form that the bible took was finally settled until the 1500s at the Council of Trent (Revelation was a late entry for inclusion). To this day there are slight variations between the catholic, protestant and orthodox versions of scripture. Also modern scholarly analysis of the letters of St. Paul have shown that it wasn't the same person who wrote them all (the letters to Timothy, for example, were not written by the person who wrote collosians). So while scripture is useful for inspiring and edifying us, I don't consider it absolute or infallible. To me the Word of God is not a book, but Christ. And as we read it the word of God is the meaning and wisdom Christ gives us as we read scripture.
For the first 500 years of Christianity there was no bible as we understand it. So they couldn't have thought of the "Word of God" as the bible we have.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing what your understanding is. Thanks guys. X

Read this it may clear up how the canon or order that the books and letters of the Bible came into agreement.

https://answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/why-66-books

 

[JaumeJ]

Translation: Dibby’s Catholic.

With all due respect, I had been getting that impression from post content....

 

[Melach]

As to Catholic and Orthodox bibles, they are full of non-inspired, non-canonical writings, Only the 66 books of the Protestant Bibles are Scripture (provided they have been translated from the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts as were all the Reformation bibles).

what does that mean? why only the 66 books if they are translated from traditional hebrew and greek texts? how can i know? i like king james bible.

 

[Dibby53]

Translation: Dibby’s Catholic.

No. I am not a baptised roman catholic.

 

[Hevosmies]

BUT, if the baby that is not aborted doesnt choose Christ as an adult, then he/she is damned to the Lake of Fire for eternity? Hmmmm.....which is better by your reasoning?

This is actually a great question that should be answered!

GO AHEAD @Roughsoul1991 my brother from another mother. IM DELEGATING this question to you. Give us an answer, cause I want a good one too! I've had people ask me this I love to do street preaching!
Question goes: Why is abortion wrong when the baby is guaranteed to go to heaven, but if we allow him to be born odds are they will end up lost. The parent is sinning by doing the abortion but saving the baby from the odds of ending up lost.

Answer is: Bring it Roughsoul im COUNTING on you bro!