nephilim

[Dino246]

Heb 1:5,14 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"

I think this thread just entered fantasy-land. Angels are spirits like garee said. You all need to get a grip. To PennEd you say this story is elsewhere from Genesis, where? I haven't ran across it.

I like what Magenta said on the second page of this thread: "Nowhere is it written, in scripture, that angels took on human form without God's permission." I would add any flesh to that. Like garee said Satan merely used a serpent to commune with eve (talked through it).

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

My issue with garee's statement is simply this: His assertion is based on nothing but his opinion. Nowhere does Scripture declare that angels do not have DNA. Nowhere does Scripture declare that angels don't have gender.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

My point was that Goliath WAS a biblically designated true giant. Post flood. Not simply a man of large stature as some bible commentators think.

In agreement. Goliath was from Gath and God reveals Gath as having rapha'. The fact that Goliath was 8’5” to 9’2” (six cubits and a span - 1 Sam 17:4) leads me to believe he was rapha'.

2 Samuel 21:

18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant (rapha' ).

19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant (rapha' ).

21 And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him.

22 These four were born to the giant (rapha' ) in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

 

[Magenta]

Nowhere does Scripture declare that angels do not have DNA. Nowhere does Scripture declare that angels don't have gender.

Why would a spirit being need DNA, or gender for that matter? Is that not a human construct? Is there neither male nor female in Christ Jesus? Are we not to be like the angels, and not marry in the resurrected life?

 

[Dino246]

Why would a spirit being need DNA, or gender for that matter? Is that not a human construct? Is there neither male nor female in Christ Jesus? Are we not to be like the angels, and not marry in the resurrected life?

The issue is the Genesis 6 passage regarding the nephilim, not the nature of Christian believers.

 

[garee]

Where are these things stated in Scripture, that you assert them with such confidence?

Have you looked at the phrase "daughters of men" .?The word daughters is used in different way depending on the context. Either they support the new creation as the chaste virgin bride of Christ or they do not. . as accredited to Timothy when Paul was used to signify the whole church as the surrogate mother of us all (Galatians 4") .

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Daughters of Zion would represent those born of God just like the word. Sons of God. The new creation what we will be

.Angels are not created in the image of God . He did not make them male and female .There would be no such need. They are not subject to salvation .There is no commandment or tools (DNA) by which they could multiply .

Ever here of angel not seen giving birth to another?

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak .Hebrews 2

 

[Magenta]

The issue is the Genesis 6 passage regarding the nephilim, not the nature of Christian believers.

What I responded to was what you said about angels, not Nephilim, or Christians for that matter.

 

[garee]

The issue is the Genesis 6 passage regarding the nephilim, not the nature of Christian believers.

It has to do with mankind multiplying. The word angel never appears in that chapter. Men, men ,men. . . mankind

It has nothing to do with giant angels who were still there after the flood .It does give a height requirement to the mighty men of renown . Some could be taller.


4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Mighty men of renown are like those of David. The seed of evildoers shall never be renowned men of Old . . . moved or led by the Spirit of God as sons of God..

Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Noah's family resesreved the seed of Christ. Onan spilled the seed seeing no value in the unseen things of God.

 

[Deade]

What I responded to was what you said about angels, not Nephilim, or Christians for that matter.

They are trying to convince us that the giants spoken of in Genesis 6:4 refers to angels:

Gen. 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Giants = H5303
נְפִל נְפִיל
nephı̂yl nephil
nef-eel', nef-eel'
From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.

Why would we refer to fallen angels as "sons of God?" Seems far fetched to me. Job and Genesis are the only two books that mention sons of God. No reference inconclusively names them as angels (cherubim or seraphs).

I think it is suggestive of God not being in control of the spirit world. In Job 1, we see Satan himself only proceeding as far as God lets him. My God REIGNS!

 

[Dino246]

Have you looked at the phrase "daughters of men" .?The word daughters is used in different way depending on the context. Either they support the new creation as the chaste virgin bride of Christ or they do not. . as accredited to Timothy when Paul was used to signify the whole church as the surrogate mother of us all (Galatians 4") .

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Daughters of Zion would represent those born of God just like the word. Sons of God. The new creation what we will be

Once again you are conflating unrelated passages, resulting in irrelevant bafflegab. Genesis 6 is not about daughters of Zion, PERIOD.

Angels are not created in the image of God . He did not make them male and female .There would be no such need. They are not subject to salvation .There is no commandment or tools (DNA) by which they could multiply.

Scripture says NOTHING about angels having or not having DNA. Your assertion is based on NOTHING, so don't be dogmatic about it.

 

[Dino246]

For those interested in the first few verses of Genesis 6, I recommend to you the work of Dr. Michael S. Heiser on the subject. I'm not going to debate it further.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Mighty men of renown are like those of David.

The nĕphiyl were nothing like David.

David was a man after God's own heart.

The nĕphiyl were wicked, evil.

The only thing God could do with nĕphiyl was destroy them with the flood ... later with fire and brimstone at Sodom/Gomorrah ... later still when God commanded the children of Israel to utterly destroy them.

The angels which kept not their first estate are not nĕphiyl. The nĕphiyl were destroyed. The angels which kept not their first estate are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[PennEd]

The nĕphiyl were nothing like David.

David was a man after God's own heart.

The nĕphiyl were wicked, evil.

The only thing God could do with nĕphiyl was destroy them with the flood ... later with fire and brimstone at Sodom/Gomorrah ... later still when God commanded the children of Israel to utterly destroy them.

The angels which kept not their first estate are not nĕphiyl. The nĕphiyl were destroyed. The angels which kept not their first estate are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Those that deny the "sons of God" are fallen angels have no answer to why the fallen angels are in Tartarus, in chains, RIGHT NOW, for a SEXUAL sin, as reported by none other than the Lord's blood brother.

Job says it. Jude and Peter confirm it. The sons of God ARE the fallen angels. NO other theory has the Biblical support.

 

[oldethennew]

a good question would be -
if they can 'look' like a human,
can they function like one in 'all-ways'?

 

[cv5]

They are trying to convince us that the giants spoken of in Genesis 6:4 refers to angels:

Gen. 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Giants = H5303
נְפִל נְפִיל
nephı̂yl nephil
nef-eel', nef-eel'
From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.

Why would we refer to fallen angels as "sons of God?" Seems far fetched to me. Job and Genesis are the only two books that mention sons of God. No reference inconclusively names them as angels (cherubim or seraphs).

I think it is suggestive of God not being in control of the spirit world. In Job 1, we see Satan himself only proceeding as far as God lets him. My God REIGNS!

It doesn't get any clearer that this.....
I really don't understand the confusion frankly.

1 Peter 3

but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

2 Pet 2

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness

Jude

And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh

 

[garee]

The nĕphiyl were nothing like David.

David was a man after God's own heart.

The nĕphiyl were wicked, evil.

The only thing God could do with nĕphiyl was destroy them with the flood ... later with fire and brimstone at Sodom/Gomorrah ... later still when God commanded the children of Israel to utterly destroy them.

The angels which kept not their first estate are not nĕphiyl. The nĕphiyl were destroyed. The angels which kept not their first estate are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

They were there before the flood and after . The falling angels have a time appointed for their destruction .The last day . They will no be in the new order.

If Satan, the father of lying spirits cannot take on human form as a shapeshifter.

He who used a creature made from the dust a serpent in the garden and Peter in Mathew 16 .

Where did his followers that are not led by the Spirit of God get their shape shifting ability from? Hollywood?

Why did Satan not simply appear as a giant in the garden..... or with Peter. . . . or was Peter a tall one?

Genesis 3 King James Version (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:22-23

Notice he did not say. . thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of Giants . Simply the spirit of lies (Satan) bringing lies into Peter fleshly mind as the things of men .Peter believed the lie he was forgiven of his blaphemy against the Son of Man .

Jesus's in Mathew 4 did the will of the Father who put these words on Jesus the mesenger lips three times... As it is written .Not after ones fleshly mind as a illusion of grandeur

I was not comparing lying spirits that have no form to David as son of God from the line of Seth .Seth is when men began to call of their heavenly Father. Sons of God whether they have form or not must be led by the Spirit of God the qualifier.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Was the Son of man Jesus led by the Spirit of God as God's son whom he spoke through as a messenger (angel) ?

The giants (taller ones)were there even after the flood . Subject matter is not giant DNA. Mighty men of renown are saints . Many tall saints.

I would ask . What is the minimum height require before we can recognize a demon is in our mix as entertaining an angel?

Is it like stay away from the NBA?

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Angels are simply messenger that either have form and no form as spirits of truth .

 

[garee]

Those that deny the "sons of God" are fallen angels have no answer to why the fallen angels are in Tartarus, in chains, RIGHT NOW, for a SEXUAL sin, as reported by none other than the Lord's blood brother.

Job says it. Jude and Peter confirm it. The sons of God ARE the fallen angels. NO other theory has the Biblical support.

Confirms what?

Job does not talk about angels as giants performing sexual sin .

Jude mentions no such thing. . just that angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Peter was used as a example of Satan the father of lies who has not form. He did influence Peter to blaspheme the Son of man, Jesus. The motive of operation for the spirit of the antichrists. Many were there at that time period Peter was forgiven . The serpent in the garden was changed took away the walking ability .

 

[garee]

It doesn't get any clearer that this.....
I really don't understand the confusion frankly.

1 Peter 3

but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

2 Pet 2

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness

Jude

And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh

Yes reserved for judgment on the last day. The flood did not destroy them before their time.

It was natural unconverted mankind under the god of this world the father of lies working in men influences them to after strange sex with men ( homosexual) . They refused to obey the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. They wanted nothing do with the opposite sex.




7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[PennEd]

Confirms what?

Job does not talk about angels as giants performing sexual sin .

Jude mentions no such thing. . just that angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Peter was used as a example of Satan the father of lies who has not form. He did influence Peter to blaspheme the Son of man, Jesus. The motive of operation for the spirit of the antichrists. Many were there at that time period Peter was forgiven . The serpent in the garden was changed took away the walking ability .

You ought to focus on a single point when you post Garee. It is almost impossible to respond to your posts because they are all over the map, make a person say huh!?, allegorize EVERY verse in Scripture, and are mostly incoherent.

Focus friend.
I can't make heads or tails of your Job comment. Who said angels were giants? The Peter stuff you said has no bearing on anything relevant.

Here is the Jude passage:
Jude 6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Can you not see how Jude is relating the SEXUAL SIN of Sodom & Gomorrah, to the SEXUAL SIN the angels committed?

BOTH groups gave themselves up in a SEXUAL manner to strange (to them) flesh.

It CANNOT be any clearer than that.

 

[Deade]

You ought to focus on a single point when you post Garee. It is almost impossible to respond to your posts because they are all over the map, make a person say huh!?, allegorize EVERY verse in Scripture, and are mostly incoherent.

Focus friend.
I can't make heads or tails of your Job comment. Who said angels were giants? The Peter stuff you said has no bearing on anything relevant.

Here is the Jude passage:
Jude 6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Can you not see how Jude is relating the SEXUAL SIN of Sodom & Gomorrah, to the SEXUAL SIN the angels committed?

BOTH groups gave themselves up in a SEXUAL manner to strange (to them) flesh.

It CANNOT be any clearer than that.

I see the angels in chains (not after strange flesh) as Sodom and Gomorrah. Both groups surpassed God given boundaries.

 

[garee]

You ought to focus on a single point when you post Garee. It is almost impossible to respond to your posts because they are all over the map, make a person say huh!?, allegorize EVERY verse in Scripture, and are mostly incoherent.

Focus friend.
I can't make heads or tails of your Job comment. Who said angels were giants? The Peter stuff you said has no bearing on anything relevant.

Here is the Jude passage:
Jude 6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Can you not see how Jude is relating the SEXUAL SIN of Sodom & Gomorrah, to the SEXUAL SIN the angels committed?

BOTH groups gave themselves up in a SEXUAL manner to strange (to them) flesh.

It CANNOT be any clearer than that.

Job does not mention angels having a sexual relations with mankind.

Just remove the Peter stuff that Satan used as body (the temporal things seen )? Satan has none as a lying spirit. ? Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus.

The serpent in the garden was not forgiven. that creature made after the rudiments of this world Its ability to walk was taken away .

No shift changers that Hollywood drama stuff

Bring the men out not angels that have no form? Lying spirits have no procreation tools or DNA. The Sodomites wanted to have sex with men . No interest in being fruitful and multiplying according to the command of God. Lying spirits deceived them just as Satan deceived Peter. Peter get thee behind me Satan . The sodomites get thee behind me Satan.

The Lord as a theophany did not tag along with the men (prophets) who declared the message of God. The criteria of a angel .

He sent the two human as messengers (angels). They refused to entertain the angels not seen, as lying spirits. It would seem in that way he always sends his messenger out "two by two".

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Genesis 1822 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.