Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Many people I believe if you ask them would affirm salvation by grace through faith and not of works.
Still it can be a subject that goes to the heart. One may affirm a truth but struggle on a heart level. As one who deals with anxiety, I may try to make sure and double check verses to try to reassure myself. I once told someone that it is like I try to find the fine print. There have been times I feel amazed thinking over the grace of God such as being in Christ. Once you are in Christ and he in you, there is no getting out of Christ. I looked at my hand once with thinking about this and about being in the body of Christ.
Still it can be a subject that goes to the heart. One may affirm a truth but struggle on a heart level. As one who deals with anxiety, I may try to make sure and double check verses to try to reassure myself. I once told someone that it is like I try to find the fine print. There have been times I feel amazed thinking over the grace of God such as being in Christ. Once you are in Christ and he in you, there is no getting out of Christ. I looked at my hand once with thinking about this and about being in the body of Christ.
Here's another time you said it.
It's your belief that they were offered up to God representing the wave offering.
You would be WRONG, YET again.
Revelation 20:14 (ASV)
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
[quote}
The Judgment of Satan and All Unbelievers (20:10-15)
20:10 The devil himself is cast into the lake of fire to join the beast and the false prophet.
It may seem surprising that Satan would be able to assemble an army of unbelievers at the end of the Millennium. However, it should be remembered that all children born during Christ's Reign will be born in sin and will need to be saved. Not all will accept Him as rightful King, and these will scatter throughout the earth, trying to get as far away from Jerusalem as possible.
Note that the beast and the false prophet are still in hell after one thousand years. This disproves the doctrine of annihilation, as does the statement, And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding. {/qoute]
Revelation 19:20 (HCSB)
20 But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with him the false prophet, who had performed the signs in his presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
[quote}
. . .
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to make war against him that sat upon the horse and against his army. And the beast (Antichrist) was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshiped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone; and the rest were killed with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, even the sword which came forth out of his mouth; and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
What a frightful picture this is. The Beast and the False Prophet defy God right up to the very last. They dare to make war with the Son of God! Surely "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh" at the utter futility of their efforts. It is preposterous that there is such a rebellion of man against God. The outcome is inevitable. The two arch-rebels and tyrants, the Antichrist and the False Prophet, have the questionable distinction of being the first two who are cast into hell. Even the Devil hasn't been put there yet.
. . .
Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee. {/quote]
[QUOTE}
Rev. 19:20 beast was captured, and... the false prophet. In an instant, the world’s armies are without their leaders. The beast is Antichrist (see notes on 13:1-8); the false prophet is his religious cohort (see notes on 13:11-17). cast alive. The bodies of the beast and the false prophet will be transformed, and they will be banished directly to the lake of fire (Dan. 7:11)—the first of countless millions of unregenerate people (20:15) and fallen angels (cf. Matt. 25:41) to arrive in that dreadful place. That these two still appear there 1,000 years later (20:10) refutes the false doctrine of annihilationism (cf. 14:11; Isa. 66:24; Matt. 25:41; Mark 9:48; Luke 3:17; 2 Thess. 1:9).
lake of fire. The final hell, the place of eternal punishment for all unrepentant rebels, angelic or human (cf. 20:10, 15). The NT says much of eternal punishment (cf. 14:10, 11; Matt. 13:40-42; 25:41; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 3:17; 12:47, 48). fire... brimstone. See note on 9:17. These two are frequently associated with divine judgment (14:10; 20:10; 21:8; Gen. 19:24; Ps. 11:6; Isa. 30:33; Ezek. 38:22; Luke 17:29).
The MacArthur Bible Commentary. {quote]
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Jim was one severely, out of control, messed up dude.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Definitely, The Gospel must be defend at every turn and those that peddle a false gospel must be exposed and refuted.
In my mind, there is no place for complacency on this point.
I would agree. But everything ends up in the lake of fire anyway, so those that are in hell will eventually end up there.
we are saved by Grace through the Free Gift of Faith. God we are told is not someone who takes back His gifts. When James is talking about doing something now that we are saved he is speaking of already being saved. If Salvation has anything to do with our doing two things would be a problem. First, the Lord could not claim that He has lost none He has been given because it is the Free Work He began in us it is the work the Lord and the individual believer are working on and as a human I can loose that salvation. Am I holding the horn of the altar, Christ, or is the Horn holding me. Saved to do works but saved first. Saved forever. This believing we must do works to remain saved is not only wrong it robs Christ of His Glory. It says I can live for you and produce fruit for you no matter what Romans 7 has to say. It teaches us that we are saying to Christ yes you will be my Husband even though I am wed to my husband the Law make Christ an adulterer. It says I don't care you died on the cross but the written Law you nailed there disarming the darkness I have taken off your cross and rearmed those same powers of darkness. Face it you believe you know better than the Lord. When the Abrahamic Covenant the only eternal Covenant between the two covenants the Lord showed what we could do to help fulfill it. The Lord placed Abramham in a sleep resembling death, because on His cross we died in Him. All Abraham could do was accept the Lord's finished work and it was counted to him as righteousness. We also are now righteous in Christ and the law does not say anything to the righteous it speaks to the unrighteous in the only voice it can, condemnation 24 -7. So throw out there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. For there to be no condemnation there must be an absence of that which condemns the Law. For those who cling to the Mosaic covenant you rob Christ of every promise He has made to us. We obey because we are loved and love the Lord back. We are to take that love to all the world, do no harm to anyone, to be in labor until Christ is formed in everyone He leads us too. Here is the Good News according to you if you mess up your under judgment. Or you can just live your life any manner , reject Christ and all. Either way you end up judged but you will have a lot more fun if you choose to live as you like you will only be judged just as much if you are not saved and under judgment. Or you can have Jesus Christ the Good News of the Kingdom who died for all your sin because He loves you and wants you to be His Bride forever. Somebody help me which is the Good News of Jesus Christ?
Col. 4:6
You are selective in who you are derogatory to. Your buddy GB9 believes in maintainable salvation ( saved as long as you believe), but you’re not derogatory towards him.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
In summation......
We can accurately conclude that Jesus did not go to "hell" being that He clearly stated on the cross "it is finished" everything that needed to be done was accomplished on the cross in terms of payment for sin....... and He told the believing thief next to Him they would be in "Paradise today."
We can accurately conclude that Jesus did not go to "hell" being that He clearly stated on the cross "it is finished" everything that needed to be done was accomplished on the cross in terms of payment for sin....... and He told the believing thief next to Him they would be in "Paradise today."
He gotcha there bro.
Btw @dcontroversal how do you figure there were that many as 144,000 in the area? Males too. If the total population was less than a million, seems unlikely, assuming 50-50 gender ratios. Also, that was in the first century, 144,000 is happening TOMORROW, later, not THEN. I know you're not a preterist so whats the gimmick here? Never heard anyone say that.
How can the 144,000 happen THEN and be a FUTURE thing as well? Or do you believe its a double prophecy? OR those guys are like resurrected and come back or something? iono. YOU TELL ME!
It’s beyond me how someone who reads the Bible could think that God would sacrifice babies. And that’s the reason I remembered him saying that, it threw me for a loop that someone say that.
Jesus did not go to hell, correct. His soul went to Hades, Acts 2:27
Hades not the grave anymore than the soul is the body
Jesus body went to grave, His soul went to Hades. Acts 2:27-30
Let me state it this way
Just because the KJV translates Hades as hell, doesn’t mean that Hades is hell
I believe that the Bible is infallible, but I do not believe the KJV is an infallible translation.
In modern usage, Hell is Gehenna. I was in the process of looking up the etymology of the ENGLISH word Hell when I read this
Remember, Hell is an English word. And IF it is if defined As Gehenna, Hades, the grave, and other thing do, a highly ambiguous one