Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

[Adstar]

If your only concern is for those that have passed away before Jesus return for them again, well I think it might be the case of them being in some "limbo place", similar to how the OT saints were supposedly in Abraham's bosom, a kind of paradise, before Jesus went to preach to them after he was crucified.

But we don't know how exactly that is gonna happen. If Paul stated that "all Israel will be saved because God's covenant with Abraham is irrevocable, I can accept that to be the truth. The Jews can really thank their father Abraham for that.

All i can say is Wow,,, you believe that.... No real point continuing this avenue of discussion..

 

[Hevosmies]

I read it literally like you. But of course, I see it as a lesson for the Jews during that time period only.

When Jesus was walking on Earth, he had the sign gift of healing. He could heal all who came to him (Acts 10:38) He used this sign gift to testify to doubting John the Baptist that he was indeed their promised Messiah (Luke 7:22)

When Jesus was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews, in order for the Jews to be saved, they had to believe in him as their promised Messiah AND keep the law (Matt 5:19-20)

So his main point to the Jews in that teaching then was this, "If having 2 eyes means you have to break some part of the law, such as the law against looking at a woman in lust as I have explained, its better for you to cut one off and just make it into the Kingdom by the skin of your teeth. Once you made it, I as your promised King can easily restore both your eyes once again."

Aiight!

Lets talk about that:

WHY was salvation so hard for the jews back then, but now we today get a free ride? Doesn't that seem UNFAIR? God can obviously do what He wants I aint saying He cant, He will show mercy to whom He will show mercy NO DOUBT! But just asking, if nobody could keep the law as the Bible states, and jews had to keep the law as well, doesnt that mean NOBODY was saved ever until the church came to be? Or did they (THE OT SAINTS) go to heaven after Jesus resurrected, is that what you believe? Were they in Abraham's bosom before that?

Thats the million dollar question! THANKS FOR ANSWERING. See this conversation is going a lot better when I dont act so VILE and try to pretend that im a civil individual!

 

[garee]

If your only concern is for those that have passed away before Jesus return for them again, well I think it might be the case of them being in some "limbo place", similar to how the OT saints were supposedly in Abraham's bosom, a kind of paradise, before Jesus went to preach to them after he was crucified.

But we don't know how exactly that is gonna happen. If Paul stated that "all Israel will be saved because God's covenant with Abraham is irrevocable, I can accept that to be the truth. The Jews can really thank their father Abraham for that.

The gospel has nothing to do with flesh and blood. But does have to do with the spiritual unseen things of God the high place. It can not replace the things not seen (faith)

You would have to rightly divide Israel. All Israel is not Israel. And the covenant is not with the flesh of Abraham as seeds many .But with the seed Christ, one. We thank our father not seen.

Mark 12:28-30 King James Version (KJV) And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

It's the Israel that hears the commandment giving them the faith to believe God not seen. Not those atheist in their thinking they make the word of God without effect..


Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 

[Guojing]

Aiight!

Lets talk about that:

WHY was salvation so hard for the jews back then, but now we today get a free ride? Doesn't that seem UNFAIR? God can obviously do what He wants I aint saying He cant, He will show mercy to whom He will show mercy NO DOUBT! But just asking, if nobody could keep the law as the Bible states, and jews had to keep the law as well, doesnt that mean NOBODY was saved ever until the church came to be? Or did they (THE OT SAINTS) go to heaven after Jesus resurrected, is that what you believe? Were they in Abraham's bosom before that?

Thats the million dollar question! THANKS FOR ANSWERING. See this conversation is going a lot better when I dont act so VILE and try to pretend that im a civil individual!

The Jews have to show their faith by keeping the law, but God provided an animal sacrifice for them whenever they fail to keep it. God will forgive them based on that sacrifice, as it reminds him of how his son Jesus will be the final sacrifice, so its like a credit card where Jesus is the actual payment. But once they sacrifice that animal, they have to go back to keeping the law again.

Why did God made it so easy for us? Its because the Jewish nation still rejected his Son, even after he resurrected and went to heaven. You can think of the Jewish nation as:

• rejecting God the Father in the OT,
• they rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels,
• and by stoning Stephen who is full of the Holy Spirit, they have also rejected God the Holy Spirit.

Once the entire trinity has been rejected by the Jewish nation, God decided in his grace to save us Gentiles independent of the Jews, and made it so easy for us to be saved without having the Law, to provoke the Jews to jealousy.

Romans 9 to 11 has all the details of that.

 

[Guojing]

All i can say is Wow,,, you believe that.... No real point continuing this avenue of discussion..

Unless you are telling me Paul was wrong when he said "All Israel will be saved"? How would you interpret that verse in Romans 11?

 

[Hevosmies]

The Jews have to show their faith by keeping the law, but God provided an animal sacrifice for them whenever they fail to keep it. God will forgive them based on that sacrifice, as it reminds him of how his son Jesus will be the final sacrifice, so its like a credit card where Jesus is the actual payment. But once they sacrifice that animal, they have to go back to keeping the law again.

Why did God made it so easy for us? Its because the Jewish nation still rejected his Son, even after he resurrected and went to heaven. You can think of the Jewish nation as:

• rejecting God the Father in the OT,
• they rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels,
• and by stoning Stephen who is full of the Holy Spirit, they have also rejected God the Holy Spirit.

Once the entire trinity has been rejected by the Jewish nation, God decided in his grace to save us Gentiles independent of the Jews, and made it so easy for us to be saved without having the Law, to provoke the Jews to jealousy.

Romans 9 to 11 has all the details of that.

WOW thats a great way to put it!

I attend a dispensational church WHY HAVENT THEY ever brought this up? I like the way you mentioned them denying the trinity like that.

Where do I apply to become a CARD CARRYING member?

 

[iamsoandso]

Then can they be forgiven? (Matthew 12:32) or are they blinded in part?(Romans 11:25)...

 

[UnderGrace]

In the midst of all your bickering is love even present? Does It even have voice? If Love did have a voice, could you hear It? Would you understand what It is saying?

I heard it several times!

 

[tanakh]

If your only concern is for those that have passed away before Jesus return for them again, well I think it might be the case of them being in some "limbo place", similar to how the OT saints were supposedly in Abraham's bosom, a kind of paradise, before Jesus went to preach to them after he was crucified.

But we don't know how exactly that is gonna happen. If Paul stated that "all Israel will be saved because God's covenant with Abraham is irrevocable, I can accept that to be the truth. The Jews can really thank their father Abraham for that.

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen
according to the flesh. Who are Israelite's, to whom pertain the adoption and the glory
and the covenants and the giving of the law and the service of God and the promises
Whose are the fathers and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all
God blessed forever Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect.
For they are not all Israel which are of Israel. Neither because they are the seed of Abraham
are they all children but in Isaac shall thy seed be counted.

Rom 9: 3- 7 KJV

Esaias also cried concerning Israel. Though the number of the Children
of Israel be as the sand of the sea a remnant shall be saved.

Rom 9:27 KJV

And think not to say within yourselves We have Abraham to our
Father for I say to you that God is able of these stones to raise up
children of Abraham. And now the axe is laid unto the root of the trees
therefore every tree which bringeth not good fruit is hewn down and
cast into the fire.

Matt 3: 9-10 KJV

Verily I say unto you I have not found so great faith no not in Israel
And I say unto you that many shall come from the East and West and
and shall sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of
Heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer
darkness there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 8: 10-12 KJV

''All Israel will be saved'' is trotted out by every pre Trib Dispensationalist because the notion of a separate path to salvation for
Jews and Gentiles is the fundamental root of in their eschatological system. A system that imposes interpretations on scripture
takes verses out of context and only compares scripture with scripture when it suits them.

A remnant of Israel will be saved not all. Those who believe in Christ and have the faith of Abraham will be saved. Many others
living or dead at the time of the second coming wont be.

 

[Guojing]

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen
according to the flesh. Who are Israelite's, to whom pertain the adoption and the glory
and the covenants and the giving of the law and the service of God and the promises
Whose are the fathers and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all
God blessed forever Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect.
For they are not all Israel which are of Israel. Neither because they are the seed of Abraham
are they all children but in Isaac shall thy seed be counted.

Rom 9: 3- 7 KJV

Esaias also cried concerning Israel. Though the number of the Children
of Israel be as the sand of the sea a remnant shall be saved.

Rom 9:27 KJV

And think not to say within yourselves We have Abraham to our
Father for I say to you that God is able of these stones to raise up
children of Abraham. And now the axe is laid unto the root of the trees
therefore every tree which bringeth not good fruit is hewn down and
cast into the fire.

Matt 3: 9-10 KJV

Verily I say unto you I have not found so great faith no not in Israel
And I say unto you that many shall come from the East and West and
and shall sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of
Heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer
darkness there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 8: 10-12 KJV

''All Israel will be saved'' is trotted out by every pre Trib Dispensationalist because the notion of a separate path to salvation for
Jews and Gentiles is the fundamental root of in their eschatological system. A system that imposes interpretations on scripture
takes verses out of context and only compares scripture with scripture when it suits them.

A remnant of Israel will be saved not all. Those who believe in Christ and have the faith of Abraham will be saved. Many others
living or dead at the time of the second coming wont be.

So for your case, when you come across Paul saying All Israel shall be saved, you basically ignore it, or you have another interpretation?

We have a group of Messianic Jews, who believe in Jesus as their promised Messiah so there is your remnant.

My point to you is, God himself cut the covenant with Abraham. In what to me is the most powerful example of a covenant, Abraham was asleep when God went thru the animals as smoke and fire (Genesis 15:17)

It is taught that it was God the Father and God the Son who went thru those animals, one represented by fire, the other by the smoking cloud.

By making Abraham "the sleeping partner" in that covenant, God himself is taking on the responsibility of fulfilling it. And I believe he will fulfill it, no matter what the Jews do.

Its the same as us now, once we are saved by believing in Jesus DBR, its a done deal, nothing we can ever do after that will make us "unsaved".

 

[garee]

So for your case, when you come across Paul saying All Israel shall be saved, you basically ignore it, or you have another interpretation?

We have a group of Messianic Jews, who believe in Jesus as their promised Messiah so there is your remnant.

My point to you is, God himself cut the covenant with Abraham. In what to me is the most powerful example of a covenant, Abraham was asleep when God went thru the animals as smoke and fire (Genesis 15:17)

It is taught that it was God the Father and God the Son who went thru those animals, one represented by fire, the other by the smoking cloud.

By making Abraham "the sleeping partner" in that covenant, God himself is taking on the responsibility of fulfilling it. And I believe he will fulfill it, no matter what the Jews do.

Its the same as us now, once we are saved by believing in Jesus DBR, its a done deal, nothing we can ever do after that will make us "unsaved".

I would not ignore the words "All Israel" shall be saved.

But find out what its the "all" means . And then also look what the word "Israel" means . Many start out with preconceived notions.

The use of the word all in that case .Is all as in as many . All as everything. Or all as partial.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Good place to start out is what part of Israel is not Israel?

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Hint not the Gentile part.

 

[kaylagrl]

The misunderstandings of those who committed atrocities is not a legitimate apologetic for your system. I could just as easy discount all of Christianity due to the activities of various Christians throughout time.

I don't believe that the occupation of Palestine by Jews is significant in terms of prophecy, and that it is only through the lenses of dispensationalism that it becomes significant.

Lot of pages have passed, and I looked and I still haven't seen an answer to this point. What do you mean when you say the phrase "occupation of the Jews"?

 

[tanakh]

I would not ignore the words "All Israel" shall be saved.

But find out what its the "all" means . And then also look what the word "Israel" means . Many start out with preconceived notions.

The use of the word all in that case .Is all as in as many . All as everything. Or all as partial.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Good place to start out is what part of Israel is not Israel?

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Hint not the Gentile part.

Paul quotes Isaiah where it says Though the Children of Israel be as the sands of the sea a remnant will be saved. The context of the Chapter is about Jews and salvation not Gentiles. We know that some Jews including Paul received Christ but most didn't. Read the whole passage. The point is that for the past 2000 years most haven't received him they died without Christ and salvation. Go to Israel or any synagogue and find out how many there now accept Christ as lord and Messiah.

In the Parable you quote was directed against the Pharisees Jewish leaders of Israel Gods Bride who rejected Christ and his kingdom
and made excuses for not accepting his invitation. Those who did accept are Gentiles. The man without a wedding garment represents a false follower without the garment of righteousness. Garments in the Bible often represent this. The first being those
worn by Adam and Eve made from animal skin.

 

[kaylagrl]

Paul quotes Isaiah where it says Though the Children of Israel be as the sands of the sea a remnant will be saved. The context of the Chapter is about Jews and salvation not Gentiles. We know that some Jews including Paul received Christ but most didn't. Read the whole passage. The point is that for the past 2000 years most haven't received him they died without Christ and salvation. Go to Israel or any synagogue and find out how many there now accept Christ as lord and Messiah.

In the Parable you quote was directed against the Pharisees Jewish leaders of Israel Gods Bride who rejected Christ and his kingdom
and made excuses for not accepting his invitation. Those who did accept are Gentiles. The man without a wedding garment represents a false follower without the garment of righteousness. Garments in the Bible often represent this. The first being those
worn by Adam and Eve made from animal skin.

The Jews have been blinded by God for a time. Once the Gentiles come in He will remove that blindness and they will recognize their Messiah.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Jews have been blinded by God for a time. Once the Gentiles come in He will remove that blindness and they will recognize their Messiah.

Yes

Why there is a remnant to begin with, if God is not going to restore, no need to have a remnant, just let them all die and the nation cease forever

 

[Lightskin]

The Jews have been blinded by God for a time. Once the Gentiles come in He will remove that blindness and they will recognize their Messiah.

Sincere question: Jews who lived, rejected Jesus and died, do they have salvation?

 

[dcontroversal]

The Jews have been blinded by God for a time. Once the Gentiles come in He will remove that blindness and they will recognize their Messiah.

The remnant will.....what is left after he weeds his garden

 

[dcontroversal]

Sincere question: Jews who lived, rejected Jesus and died, do they have salvation?

NO....he was clear....YOU will DIE in yours sins and Where I am going you cannot come or you will NOT be able to be where I am at.......only those that acknowledge in faith will be saved.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sincere question: Jews who lived, rejected Jesus and died, do they have salvation?

No

 

[Lightskin]

The remnant will.....what is left after he weeds his garden

This answers my question.