I believe that if you would read further you would find that it says that the Gentiles had the laws written in their hearts, which means that God had already changed their heart of stone, Ezk 11:19, so they were already born again. Most of God's children that have been born again are lost from a lack of knowledge of the gospels explanation that they already have the imputed righteousness of Christ and don't have to go around to establish their own righteousness by their works. Romans 10:1,2. Jesus was sent to this earth to pay the adoption price for all of God's sheep, not just the lost ones. God's lost sheep are not lost eternally, but just to the knowledge of the truth that they do not have to go about to establish their own righteousness by their works.
Is Salvation by Jesus alone the only way to heaven?
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I did. However, that does not answer the question I posted to the brother concerning which denomination teaches such things. Your post 76. I believe you were in error concerning the scripture you cited there, John 2:2. That passage reads as: "And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage."
I did. However, that does not answer the question I posted to the brother concerning which denomination teaches such things.Your post 76. I believe you were in error concerning the scripture you cited there, John 2:2. That passage reads as: "And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage."
Not a problem. Thank you for the correction.
Verse 2 reads, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Propitiation = Strong's Greek, hilasmos atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator:—propitiation.
World = Strong's Greek, Kosmos κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos; probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world.
I would say that is in accordance with the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16
Verse 2 reads, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Propitiation = Strong's Greek, hilasmos atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator:—propitiation.
World = Strong's Greek, Kosmos κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos; probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world.
I would say that is in accordance with the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16
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I'm not aware of any denomination that teaches that but @ForestGreenCook clearly teaches that here.
Salvation is by Jesus alone/faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).
John 10:9 - I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Acts 4:12 - And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.
John 10:9 - I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Acts 4:12 - And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.
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In order to promote what appears to me to be aptly titled, exclusivity doctrine, I believe one must fully ignore the simple revelation from God given in The Book of John chapter 3 verse 16.
"For God so loved the world...."
And then among many similar verses are the words of the Saint Apostle Paul, The Book of 1st Timothy chapter 4[Latin Vulgate]
in hoc enim laboramus et maledicimur quia speravimus in Deum vivum qui est salvator omnium hominum maxime fidelium
KJV = For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
"For God so loved the world...."
And then among many similar verses are the words of the Saint Apostle Paul, The Book of 1st Timothy chapter 4[Latin Vulgate]
in hoc enim laboramus et maledicimur quia speravimus in Deum vivum qui est salvator omnium hominum maxime fidelium
KJV = For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
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What about Jesus' words in The Book of Matthew chapter 18?
18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
What denomination or doctrine of man would instruct that babies are doomed by God? Of those I would wish no part at all.
The Book of 1st John chapter 4 verse 1 carissimi nolite omni spiritui credere sed probate spiritus si ex Deo sint quoniam multi pseudoprophetae exierunt in mundum
18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
What denomination or doctrine of man would instruct that babies are doomed by God? Of those I would wish no part at all.
The Book of 1st John chapter 4 verse 1 carissimi nolite omni spiritui credere sed probate spiritus si ex Deo sint quoniam multi pseudoprophetae exierunt in mundum
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Wrong again. I do not mind for you to quote me, but please quote me correctly. I do not teach that only a few will be saved. Right the opposite. My belief of the scriptures teaches there to be more going to heaven that most doctrines. Even as many as the grains in the seashore and the stars in the sky, so many that they cannot be numbered 1 kings 3:8, Jer 33:22.
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A one week old child that dies is going to heaven, only if it has been born again and quickened to a spiritual life. We are all born into this world with a nature of sin, until we are quickened to a spiritual life Eph 2. The only exception is that John the Baptist while in his mother's womb was quickened to a spiritual life before his natural birth, and I believe that to be an exception with God. Luke 1:41, And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth (John's mother) heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. Not all children that die in their youth (one week old, 1 yr old, 2 yr old) will go to heaven, only those that have been born again, however, I do think that all children that die in their youth will go to heaven, because the scriptures say that the wicked will live to be old.
1 Tim 4:10, Savior in Greek means "a deliverer". That means if God is their savior he delivered them. Did he deliver all mankind, or did he deliver all elect men? Most of God's elect do not believe the whole truth (especially of those who believe) and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness by their works Romans 10:1,2. as do most on this forum. All Israel (nation) are not of Israel (Jacob, who God calls his name Israel). Jesus sent his Apostles to go and preach to the LOST SHEEP (those who are going about to establish their own righteousness by their works) of the house of Israel (Jacob who is called Israel). Any scripture referring to God's sheep are children of God. John 6:38, Jesus did not die for all mankind, only for those that his Father gave him and said that those he died for will live in heaven.
You must be using a different version than the KJV. Gal 2:16 reads "faith OF Jesus Christ" not faith "IN" Jesus Christ. Rom 3:24-25, Christ justified and redeemed those that God gave hi on the cross. Verse 25, God had faith in Christ's blood and set him to be a go-between for his elect to communicate with God. Romans Verse 4:8 explains verses 5 and 6. God will not impute sin to all of those that he gave to Jesus to die for, John 6:38 which was not all mankind. Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified (eternally) by (Jesus's) faith, not our faith. Our faith in Jesus will justify us to abide in Christ, but our faith does not justify us eternally. Eph 2:8,9; Fot by grace are ye saved through (Christ's) faith. Phil 3:9, the faith of Christ, not our faith.
You consistently avoid recognizing The Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
You see, according to your doctrine, arrived at by ignoring scripture that prove it false, our Father gave only an elect few to His Son so that they would be saved. It isn't the faith of Jesus because Jesus was God and did not require faith in Himself at all. Jesus was on the John 3:16 mission that was to give faith to all who heard that good news.
According to your doctrine, God gave whom He wished to His Son prior to the cross so that His Son/God Himself, would then die on the cross and secure the salvation of those whom he predetermined would be saved there.
This necessarily manifests the converse. That in doing that, God had also pre-created, pre-determined, those whom He would damn to Hell for eternity. Knowing who they were before He created this world. Because those one's, according to your doctrine, were not given to His Son through the "faith of Christ" . And as such according to the paradigm of Salvation and Damnation, requires that God did not give certain people to His Son so that they would be saved. This means God intended those one's to be damned. God, according to you, did it all.
That ideology you are promoting here not only eradicates the Omni Benevolent characteristic of our Father but also presupposes instead that God is Omni-Malevolent.
Because God , the creator of all things, did not have to save anyone at all if He had first forgiven Adam and Eve for their innocent mistake and punished instead the already damned Devil that deceived their innocence though the machinations he employed in the garden so as to be the antithesis of God's righteous law there.
How do you live your life thinking Jesus died only for those God pre-saved at the cross, while having His Son, Himself, nailed to the cross so as to seal the deal?
And do you think you mayhaps shall reconsider ignoring those words of God that defeat your doctrine now? In this life? Or will you insist you are right all the way until you stand at the judgment seat of our Father and explain yourself there.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
You see, according to your doctrine, arrived at by ignoring scripture that prove it false, our Father gave only an elect few to His Son so that they would be saved. It isn't the faith of Jesus because Jesus was God and did not require faith in Himself at all. Jesus was on the John 3:16 mission that was to give faith to all who heard that good news.
According to your doctrine, God gave whom He wished to His Son prior to the cross so that His Son/God Himself, would then die on the cross and secure the salvation of those whom he predetermined would be saved there.
This necessarily manifests the converse. That in doing that, God had also pre-created, pre-determined, those whom He would damn to Hell for eternity. Knowing who they were before He created this world. Because those one's, according to your doctrine, were not given to His Son through the "faith of Christ" . And as such according to the paradigm of Salvation and Damnation, requires that God did not give certain people to His Son so that they would be saved. This means God intended those one's to be damned. God, according to you, did it all.
That ideology you are promoting here not only eradicates the Omni Benevolent characteristic of our Father but also presupposes instead that God is Omni-Malevolent.
Because God , the creator of all things, did not have to save anyone at all if He had first forgiven Adam and Eve for their innocent mistake and punished instead the already damned Devil that deceived their innocence though the machinations he employed in the garden so as to be the antithesis of God's righteous law there.
How do you live your life thinking Jesus died only for those God pre-saved at the cross, while having His Son, Himself, nailed to the cross so as to seal the deal?
And do you think you mayhaps shall reconsider ignoring those words of God that defeat your doctrine now? In this life? Or will you insist you are right all the way until you stand at the judgment seat of our Father and explain yourself there.
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