Where are the sun, moon, and stars?

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#21
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
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113
#21
posthuman said:
​
as high as the heavens are above the earth,​
so great is His love for those who fear Him​
(Psalm 103:11) ​
​
how great is His love?
Click to expand...

to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge
(Ephesians 3:19) ​

that's pretty great! - greater than can be known

neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord
(Romans 8:39)
​
height cannot separate us from His love; His love is greater than any height -- so if this immeasurable love is as high as the heavens are above the earth, well, the heavens are immeasurably high above the earth. stands to reason from scripture.
 
E

Eli12

Active member
#22
Jul 3, 2019
144
70
28
#22
GaryA said:
Read Genesis 1:1-20 very carefully. Pay particularly close attention to the word 'firmament'.

What exactly is the firmament?

What is this passage telling you about where the sun, moon, and stars are?

What does the Bible actually say?
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The firmament on Gen. 1:6-8 was the space between the waters up and the waters covering the primitive planet, since a part of the waters that first covered the planet were lifted into the atmosphere leaving an empty space in the middle. The waters up felt down on the Deluge and there is not more that layer of water holding on the Earth's atmosphere.

During the fourth day the sun, moon and stars became visible through the layer of water (Gen. 1:14-19). Their light came from the exterior of that liquid atmosphere. It looks like even if those celestial bodies were already created from the beginning (Gen. 1:1), their light was not visible on the Earth until the fourth day. That was the way God established in which the future intelligent inhabitants of the planet could count time, recognize seasons, etc.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#23
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#23
GaryA said:
I would consider that 'firmament' may represent either the first heaven or the first heaven and second heaven combined as one 'expanse'.


You only say this because you have been taught "vastness-of-space" all your life - it is not a matter of [real] scientific proof.

It is not actually as obvious as you may think.

(BTW - Why are the sun, moon, and stars only literal in Genesis?)

How can you even know with absolute certainty just exactly how far the second heaven reaches?

Other than simply believing what you are told (acting on assumption and blind trust), you cannot know with absolute certainty - because you have not actually conducted your own scientific proof.

So then, it is really a matter of faith...
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The text surrounding the sun, moon and stars make them literal. The heaven was literal, the earth was, the light was, everything was literal.

You said "How can you even know with absolute certainty just exactly how far the second heaven reaches?"

Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:7 says that there are waters below the firmament (seas) and waters ABOVE the firmament. So that firmament extends from the surface of the earth up to, but not into, the area where the clouds reside.

So what do we call the area ABOVE the firmament?

It's another firmament (expanse). This is the firmament of heaven of which the lower parts of it contain water and expands outward for who knows how far. This, "the firmament of heaven," is where the sun, moon and stars were placed. Agree?
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#25
Aug 10, 2019
9,807
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mywebsite.us
#25
KJV1611 said:
The text surrounding the sun, moon and stars make them literal. The heaven was literal, the earth was, the light was, everything was literal.

You said "How can you even know with absolute certainty just exactly how far the second heaven reaches?"

Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:7 says that there are waters below the firmament (seas) and waters ABOVE the firmament. So that firmament extends from the surface of the earth up to, but not into, the area where the clouds reside.

So what do we call the area ABOVE the firmament?

It's another firmament (expanse). This is the firmament of heaven of which the lower parts of it contain water and expands outward for who knows how far. This, "the firmament of heaven," is where the sun, moon and stars were placed. Agree?
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Nope. Sorry. Try again...

The water above the firmament was not clouds.

It did not rain on the earth until the flood - remember?

The separation of the waters from the waters occurred on day two of the creation week.

The waters above the firmament were just that - above the entire complete whole firmament - as in, all of it.

There is no firmament above the waters that are above the firmament.

The waters that are above the firmament are beyond anything and everything that is called 'firmament'.

So, let me ask again - did God create a 'universe' of vast-but-specific size -- surrounded by an enormous water bubble?

Does the 'universe' have a spherical shape?
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#26
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#26
Here’s a bit of it, unless this is fake.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#27
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#27
GaryA said:
Nope. Sorry. Try again...

The water above the firmament was not clouds.

It did not rain on the earth until the flood - remember?

The separation of the waters from the waters occurred on day two of the creation week.

The waters above the firmament were just that - above the entire complete whole firmament - as in, all of it.

There is no firmament above the waters that are above the firmament.

The waters that are above the firmament are beyond anything and everything that is called 'firmament'.

So, let me ask again - did God create a 'universe' of vast-but-specific size -- surrounded by an enormous water bubble?

Does the 'universe' have a spherical shape?
Click to expand...
I'm too tired to discuss it tonight lol. I have to get up early in the morning. I'll be back tomorrow. :)
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#28
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
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#28
GaryA said:
Nope. Sorry. Try again...

The water above the firmament was not clouds.

It did not rain on the earth until the flood - remember?

The separation of the waters from the waters occurred on day two of the creation week.

The waters above the firmament were just that - above the entire complete whole firmament - as in, all of it.

There is no firmament above the waters that are above the firmament.

The waters that are above the firmament are beyond anything and everything that is called 'firmament'.

So, let me ask again - did God create a 'universe' of vast-but-specific size -- surrounded by an enormous water bubble?

Does the 'universe' have a spherical shape?
Click to expand...
On the second day the firmament of heaven was created, before the earth was formed into dry land.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#29
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#29
The most abundant element in the universe hydrogen
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#30
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#30
Boiling points
hydrogen
-423.2°F
helium
-452.1°F
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#31
Aug 10, 2019
9,807
4,308
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mywebsite.us
#31
KJV1611 said:
I'm too tired to discuss it tonight lol. I have to get up early in the morning. I'll be back tomorrow. :)
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"No doubt your dreams will be filled with a familiar awareness of the great expanse --- known as the 'firmament' --- in the Twilight Zone..."

;)

(hahaha)

Sleep well...

:)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#33
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#33
GaryA said:
"No doubt your dreams will be filled with a familiar awareness of the great expanse --- known as the 'firmament' --- in the Twilight Zone..."

;)

(hahaha)

Sleep well...

:)
Click to expand...
So it seems that in your view, the sun, moon and stars reside in the firmament.
Since the water vapor doesn't reside in the firmament, but above it, that means that the clouds are ABOVE the sun, moon and stars

Is this what you're saying?
 
H

Hevosmies358

Guest
#35
#35
Plot twist: The earth is FLAT and the moon sun and stars are UP. Closer than we think and its a dome. Geocentric model and all that.

You was on a boat and saw curvature? Come on bruh. You already know its them FISHEYE lenses doing that.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#36
#36
The word firmament

First thing to do is look at definition

Greek raqia - a beaten metal plate, bow, firm form

Alot of people think it is the lower earth autmosphere,

But i believe it is actually the crust of the earth, which separates the fountains of the great deep, or an area of water miles below the surface from which the earth crust sits, and the water above
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#37
Mar 13, 2014
42,558
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Tennessee
#37
[QUOTE="posthuman, post: 4025042, member: 170505"
​
how great is His love? [/QUOTE]
Wasn't that a lyric of a song from the 80's?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
#40
tourist said:
Yeah, that one. Sometimes it's not very deep but that's my bad. :)
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Lol its ok, but now i have had the BeeGees In my head all day lol
 
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