Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[posthuman]

Did you see post #7137. Something I thought might be interesting to you.

i figured you two would be like peas in a pod

 

[RickStudies]

1 Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing

Just hope to remind you that none of these folks here injured your knee

I thought it was pretty funny, one of the first things I said about the law is post scriptures that say love fulfills it. That`s when I started getting called a legalist

 

[Yahshua]

I thought it was pretty funny, one of the first things I said about the law is post scriptures that say love fulfills it. That`s when I started getting called a legalist

The label stings. You should stick around as that's only the start of it lol

This walk isn't easy.

 

[RickStudies]

The New Covenant is not closed we are living in it now. It ends with the Second Coming of Christ.

You misunderstood me.

Closing
The final transaction between a buyer and seller of real property.At the closing, all agreements between buyer and seller are finalized, documents are signed and exchanged, money passes to the seller, and title to the property passes to the buyer.

 

[Grandpa]

I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, with Jesus, He also brought some into the new, and left the rest for our history, instruction of holiness or edification etc) The law of Moses was valid till John the Baptist, they were set up as temporary. They were for a people who had been slaves for 400 years and knew nothing about being a nation, let alone how to be a "people" a holy people, a peculiar people, unto God. Those laws gave them rules for everything from worshipping God to Govennment, hence the "temp" ness of them.

My belief in what it means to believe in New Covenant and yours isn`t the same. I`m sorry that my effort to articulate my point of view to you has failed. I suspect that you didn`t read some of my posts or perhaps you didn`t look at my scripture evidence with an open mind. Often indoctrinated Chrisitans have a hard time recieving Biblical truth. The self talk coming from preconcieved religeous ideas is a hard obsticle to overcome.

Having said that, yes I believe in the New Covenant and since you claim you believe in following Jesus commandments, how about this one?

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

Want to obey Jesus? Go down to your local temple and obey the Rabbi.[/QUOTE]

This is kind of awesome.

But I wonder how exactly you mean it.


You already know that covenant is a broken covenant. So it is useless to go to the local temple and obey the head jewish guy there.

But you don't believe in the New Covenant that is implemented by our High Priest and Lord Jesus Christ.


So I suppose there must be more to the story...

 

[DeighAnn]

I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, with Jesus, He also brought some into the new, and left the rest for our history, instruction of holiness or edification etc) The law of Moses was valid till John the Baptist, they were set up as temporary. They were for a people who had been slaves for 400 years and knew nothing about being a nation, let alone how to be a "people" a holy people, a peculiar people, unto God. Those laws gave them rules for everything from worshipping God to Govennment, hence the "temp" ness of them.

My belief in what it means to believe in New Covenant and yours isn`t the same. I`m sorry that my effort to articulate my point of view to you has failed. I suspect that you didn`t read some of my posts or perhaps you didn`t look at my scripture evidence with an open mind. Often indoctrinated Chrisitans have a hard time recieving Biblical truth. The self talk coming from preconcieved religeous ideas is a hard obsticle to overcome.

Having said that, yes I believe in the New Covenant and since you claim you believe in following Jesus commandments, how about this one?

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

Want to obey Jesus? Go down to your local temple and obey the Rabbi.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, my fault, again. That was supposed to be in reply to a post Dan made, but I cut out the top part again. Sorry for the confusion. Seems the second I relax and am not vigilant on my posts, I do it again. Uhhhhh

 

[RickStudies]

[/QUOTE]Sorry, my fault, again. That was supposed to be in reply to a post Dan made, but I cut out the top part again. Sorry for the confusion. Seems the second I relax and am not vigilant on my posts, I do it again. Uhhhhh[/QUOTE]

I hate to hear that, thought I got yer

 

[DeighAnn]

My belief in what it means to believe in New Covenant and yours isn`t the same. I`m sorry that my effort to articulate my point of view to you has failed. I suspect that you didn`t read some of my posts or perhaps you didn`t look at my scripture evidence with an open mind. Often indoctrinated Chrisitans have a hard time recieving Biblical truth. The self talk coming from preconcieved religeous ideas is a hard obsticle to overcome.

Having said that, yes I believe in the New Covenant and since you claim you believe in following Jesus commandments, how about this one?

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

Want to obey Jesus? Go down to your local temple and obey the Rabbi.

Sorry, my fault, again. That was supposed to be in reply to a post Dan made, but I cut out the top part again. Sorry for the confusion. Seems the second I relax and am not vigilant on my posts, I do it again. Uhhhhh[/QUOTE]


POSTS ARE GETTING MIXED UP AND PEOPLE ARE REPLYING TO REPLYS NOT MEANT FOR THEM. sO

DAN POSTED ABOUT MARRY BROTHERS WIDOW

DEIGH (I) THEN POSTED "I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, .....""

THEN RICK POSTED IN REPLY TO MY POST TO DAN THINKING IT WAS TO HIM BUT IT WASN'T

THEN GRANDPA POSTED IN REPLY TO RICK

AND HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE END OF THAT

 

[Dan_473]

Any chance He came to walk and obey the laws perfectly (show us how it the law looked walking around in the flesh) and to fulfill the prophecies that needed to be fulfilled for that "age"?

I don't think so.
Because he didn't say in that passage that he came to fulfill some of the prophecies, rather that he came to fulfill the prophets.

 

[DeighAnn]

I don't think so.
Because he didn't say in that passage that he came to fulfill some of the prophecies, rather that he came to fulfill the prophets.

That is one of the things that prophets do. Jesus came to fulfill all the prophecies concerning Him written in the laws and the prophets. I believe.


for the brother marry brother widow I asked but I think you missed


"I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, with Jesus, He also brought some into the new, and left the rest for our history, instruction of holiness or edification etc) The law of Moses was valid till John the Baptist, they were set up as temporary. They were for a people who had been slaves for 400 years and knew nothing about being a nation, let alone how to be a "people" a holy people, a peculiar people, unto God. Those laws gave them rules for everything from worshipping God to Govennment, hence the "temp" ness of them.

 

[page-1]

If objective moral values and duties does not exist, God does not exist. Objective moral values and duties does exist, therefore, God exists. - William Lane Craig

To argue for moral values and duties to be subjective (changeable based on time, event, people, place, etc.) is to, at the same time, argue that God/good does not exist.

The law and the prophets explicitly claims that morality is objective[1], and that God/good is immutable[2]. It also, explicitly, calls the profaning of the seventh day, the transgression of the fourth commandment, evil[3].

Therefore, to write/interpret any writings to mean that we can profane the Sabbath and maintain that this writing/interpretation is infallibly true, the author/interpreter has no choice but to, at the same time, discredit the law and the prophets as false/inaccurate.

----------------------------------------------------------

[1]
Deut 30:15-16,19; Is 5:20,24; 8:19-20

[2]
Mal 3:6

[3]
Ex 16:27-28; Neh 13:17-18; Is 56:2; Eze 22:26

[4]
Gen 2:2-3; Ex 20:11

 

[Grandpa]

That is one of the things that prophets do. Jesus came to fulfill all the prophecies concerning Him written in the laws and the prophets. I believe.

But failed in that as well?

 

[DeighAnn]

But failed in that as well?

Only if you consider Him failing because they were not all fulfilled. He had to quit reading half way through the verse in Isaiah because the day of vengeance was yet future so that could not be fulfilled and so we do have to wait for that still.

 

[Dan_473]

I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, with Jesus, He also brought some into the new, and left the rest for our history, instruction of holiness or edification etc) The law of Moses was valid till John the Baptist, they were set up as temporary. They were for a people who had been slaves for 400 years and knew nothing about being a nation, let alone how to be a "people" a holy people, a peculiar people, unto God. Those laws gave them rules for everything from worshipping God to Govennment, hence the "temp" ness of them.

Yes, I believe that we who believe are under the New covenant.

And yes, follow the commandments and teachings of Jesus, always keeping in mind that Jesus was born and lived under the law, but we are not under the law.

Keeping in mind that the letter kills but the spirit gives life, so in some cases follow the spirit of Jesus' teaching, not the letter. (Some will disagree with me on that of course.)

 

[DeighAnn]

Yes, I believe that we who believe are under the New covenant.

And yes, follow the commandments and teachings of Jesus, always keeping in mind that Jesus was born and lived under the law, but we are not under the law.

Keeping in mind that the letter kills but the spirit gives life, so in some cases follow the spirit of Jesus' teaching, not the letter. (Some will disagree with me on that of course.)

So that marry brothers widow no longer applies, correct?

 

[gb9]

Sorry, my fault, again. That was supposed to be in reply to a post Dan made, but I cut out the top part again. Sorry for the confusion. Seems the second I relax and am not vigilant on my posts, I do it again. Uhhhhh

POSTS ARE GETTING MIXED UP AND PEOPLE ARE REPLYING TO REPLYS NOT MEANT FOR THEM. sO

DAN POSTED ABOUT MARRY BROTHERS WIDOW

DEIGH (I) THEN POSTED "I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, .....""

THEN RICK POSTED IN REPLY TO MY POST TO DAN THINKING IT WAS TO HIM BUT IT WASN'T

THEN GRANDPA POSTED IN REPLY TO RICK

AND HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE END OF THAT[/QUOTE]






this is just for you, meant for you.

have you come up with a translation that defines the word " Law " as primarily plural , and not singular.


still waiting....

 

[Grandpa]

Only if you consider Him failing because they were not all fulfilled. He had to quit reading half way through the verse in Isaiah because the day of vengeance was yet future so that could not be fulfilled and so we do have to wait for that still.

I disagree.

I think if GOD says that He will do something then He doesn't do half of it. And leave the other half for you.

He definitely doesn't say He will do something and declare it is finished if it is not.


Just my opinion of the Lord Jesus Christ. I won't push this too much because it seems excessively mean.

Like when Elijah made fun of the prophets of baal.

 

[Dan_473]

Greetings Dan,

Yes, this is an aspect of the instructions given.

Also, you were not permitted to sell/buy "the land", only "the crops".

I have asked that question myself, and how it pertains/applies to today and in this "new land"

Back to Europe? Not sure about that. But possibly. I'm sure if that day comes it will all be made abundantly clear.

I agree with you 100% on the positives and have contemplated the wisdom behind the rational many times, and have arrived at some of the same conclusions, but would not necessarily accept the "liberal" label. In fact I do not fall under any label other than one seeking "God's Kingdom Now" which none of the parties seem to desire.

I see the benefit of limiting greed and avarice too and while each party seems to have their own opinion of themselves in these matters, which are mostly not representative of their actual core in the matters, I see "central governments" as the culprits not the "parties" The central government was, is, and ever will be Gods place of authority. Any man made structure that is erected in its place will inevitably fail as it is only manageable by the divine.

Appreciate the thoughts

SG

Sounds like you're going with the concept behind the law and not the letter, in this case.

If so, then I would agree with you!

Maybe the difference between our approaches then would be that I think that if one uses the concept behind the law in one case then to be consistent one should use the concepts behind the law in all cases.

 

[page-1]

Keeping in mind that the letter kills but the spirit gives life, so in some cases follow the spirit of Jesus' teaching, not the letter. (Some will disagree with me on that of course.)

Can you explain your interpretation here? Perhaps by demonstration? How exactly can one yield to the spirit and not the letter? For example, the letter of the law says, "Do not commit adultery," and the spirit of law is to, "not commit adultery in the heart." How can one commit adultery while remaining pure in the heart? I can understand how keeping the law out of obligation (only to the letter) will kill, as this was proven to be the case with Israel and the statue of Baal. They kept to the letter of the second commandment, but not the spirit, thus resulted in death. Should they keep to the spirit, then they would have been okay. But I fail to understand how one can renounce the letter in favor for the spirit: renounce the law against murder as long as you don't hate your brother in your heart.

 

[DeighAnn]

I disagree.

I think if GOD says that He will do something then He doesn't do half of it. And leave the other half for you.

He definitely doesn't say He will do something and declare it is finished if it is not.


Just my opinion of the Lord Jesus Christ. I won't push this too much because it seems excessively mean.

Like when Elijah made fun of the prophets of baal.

Then, WE have a problem in understanding as the Word of God is perfect. Flawless as He wrote it.

So then when Jesus said "it is finished" He must not have meant "everything He was ever meant to do" but "everything He was meant to do at "THAT ADVENT" and as He still has another ADVENT to come, at which point He will return again, (not as a servant next time) but as Lord of Lord and king of Kings, with a rod of Iron to rule on the day of vengeance.