Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?
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Where do the believing Jews belong, when the Rapture occurs?
Do they belong with the Church, and experience the Rapture, or do they go through the Tribulation?
How does Separation Theology treat them? Perhaps that is the source of my misunderstanding.
My guess is that Separation Theology leaves them on earth to witness, so they suffer through the Tribulation....but to be honest, my intuition indicates that you guys don't know because your doctrine isn't well defined
Do they belong with the Church, and experience the Rapture, or do they go through the Tribulation?
How does Separation Theology treat them? Perhaps that is the source of my misunderstanding.
My guess is that Separation Theology leaves them on earth to witness, so they suffer through the Tribulation....but to be honest, my intuition indicates that you guys don't know because your doctrine isn't well defined
Those who are not saved by the time our Rapture occurs (pre-trib) of course will be alive and existing within the trib years (that thereafter commence to unfold upon the earth). I believe many of them will be among the *first* to grasp *what just happened*, and these will be the ones who go on to "preach" the Matt24:14[26:13]/Matt22:8-14/Rev19:9 [not v.7] thing, and the number of believers will grow in those years (Rev7:9,14 and Matt25:31-34 and some of Matt13 (and part of Matt8:11) is the RESULTS of this particular "msg" / "INVITATION [of the guests]" going out DURING the trib yrs.
Whichever/whoever of those (having come to faith WITHIN the trib yrs [FOLLOWING our Rapture]) who DIE or are martyred during the trib, will be "resurrected [to stand again on the earth]" at the END of the trib (Rev20:4) same time that the OT saints will be "resurrected" (Dan12:13, Job19:25-27, Matt8:11 and parallel, Jn11:24--the phrase "the last day" NOT referring to a "24-hr day" [tho this likely will both take place on a singular 24-hr day/same day] but is referring to their being resurrected for "the last Millennium"/the "7th Day"/the MK age, as ALL "saints" will be present and accounted for, to be present and experience the MK age [aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER on the earth / the earthly MK])
... even those who will be "still-living" by the end, will ENTER the MK and be a part of it (Daniel 12:12's "BLESSED" and about 10 other "BLESSED" passages (I've listed in past posts) that speak to this point in time, in the chronology [MK-entrance, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth]; "the Church which is His body" will be returning WITH Him, at that point, also. [more I could say, but this post is long enough
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E
I think we have to look at context, which would include looking at Amos 9 where the punishment is shown to take place. But also that something else will happen.
The fulfiment of Amos 8:
“For surely I will command,
And will [g]sift the house of Israel among all nations,
As grain is sifted in a sieve;
Yet not the smallest [h]grain shall fall to the ground.
10 All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword,
Who say, ‘The calamity shall not overtake nor confront us.’
But is that the end?
Israel Will Be Restored
11 “On that day I will raise up
The [i]tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And [j]repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,[k]
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the Lord who does this thing.
13 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.
if we leave chapter 9 out. and take one verse out of chapter 8 alone, we may think God actually meant he will never ever again do what he promised abraham.
The fulfiment of Amos 8:
“For surely I will command,
And will [g]sift the house of Israel among all nations,
As grain is sifted in a sieve;
Yet not the smallest [h]grain shall fall to the ground.
10 All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword,
Who say, ‘The calamity shall not overtake nor confront us.’
But is that the end?
Israel Will Be Restored
11 “On that day I will raise up
The [i]tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And [j]repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,[k]
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the Lord who does this thing.
13 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.
if we leave chapter 9 out. and take one verse out of chapter 8 alone, we may think God actually meant he will never ever again do what he promised abraham.
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It's not about what I believe. It's about what the facts are.
Not ONLY did He send prophets and by name , Cyrus, tell them they would be restored to go back and rebuild the walls and Temple, God HIMSELF came and dwelt among them!
Those are FACTS. So I hope they line up with YOUR beliefs.
Not ONLY did He send prophets and by name , Cyrus, tell them they would be restored to go back and rebuild the walls and Temple, God HIMSELF came and dwelt among them!
Those are FACTS. So I hope they line up with YOUR beliefs.
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let me guess you are the only saved? you dont even know his husband or anyone. this isnt a church women can speak all they want. its biblical even according to st.paul
you arent even married so we'll see how weak you are in marriage. do you plan to ever marry? not sure if you can control a person.
as for me i try to marry a godly woman who i dont need to "train" but we can iron sharpen iron and be both godly together and improve each other.
you arent even married so we'll see how weak you are in marriage. do you plan to ever marry? not sure if you can control a person.
as for me i try to marry a godly woman who i dont need to "train" but we can iron sharpen iron and be both godly together and improve each other.
In that view chapter 8 is a direct contradiction of chapter. The Bible never ever contradicts itself and it doesn’t here.
Chapter 9 takes place when the tabernacle of David is built again. We’re told in Acts that Christ coming the first time fulfilled that.
Act 15:16 (KJV) After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 (KJV) That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
This is also at the time of “summer is nigh” meaning the summer fruit of Amos was about to be picked.
Chapter 9 takes place when the tabernacle of David is built again. We’re told in Acts that Christ coming the first time fulfilled that.
Act 15:16 (KJV) After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 (KJV) That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
This is also at the time of “summer is nigh” meaning the summer fruit of Amos was about to be picked.
H
Thats how them trolls operate! Bully and provoke people then when they face any resistance they RUN N DUCK. RATS
I can relate to your husband, folks are always quick to RUN OFF at ya on the internet, but they are scared timid and shook in real life and WILL FOLD when put to the test. MAKES ME MAD! Makes me wanna unplug my modem, cause I never face this kind of trolling in real life.
Anyone that has been locked up or in the military or in the streets or in any other similar environment knows what im saying is true, all the brats coming thru the system WILL GET tested and most will fold. The real ones make it through adversity and never bend, never break!
With that being said lets stop feeding this troll!
God bless you dear sister and your husband! Tell your husband I said SALUTE![/QUOTE]
I can relate to your husband, folks are always quick to RUN OFF at ya on the internet, but they are scared timid and shook in real life and WILL FOLD when put to the test. MAKES ME MAD! Makes me wanna unplug my modem, cause I never face this kind of trolling in real life.
Anyone that has been locked up or in the military or in the streets or in any other similar environment knows what im saying is true, all the brats coming thru the system WILL GET tested and most will fold. The real ones make it through adversity and never bend, never break!
With that being said lets stop feeding this troll!
God bless you dear sister and your husband! Tell your husband I said SALUTE![/QUOTE]
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E
um, no, I can not agree, because chapter 9 has not happened yet We can prove this by using the last verse in chapter 9
I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.
1. God did not plant them when they returned from Babylon, he allowed them to return, STILL as slaves of the gentiles (in this case, media persia) and fro that point until AD 70 they were under the rule of gentiles and were never in peace. as god promised in Chapter 9
2. They were pulled up completely in ad 70 (this did not occur when babylon came, babylon only took a select few back to babylon, and left the rest, including the king, which they later murdered)
I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.
1. God did not plant them when they returned from Babylon, he allowed them to return, STILL as slaves of the gentiles (in this case, media persia) and fro that point until AD 70 they were under the rule of gentiles and were never in peace. as god promised in Chapter 9
2. They were pulled up completely in ad 70 (this did not occur when babylon came, babylon only took a select few back to babylon, and left the rest, including the king, which they later murdered)
Why was the New Covenant offered to the Jews at all if they could just rely on their present Covenant?
Here's a better Covenant if you want it but if you guys choose to REJECT Christ then that's ok, you have that other Covenant that will keep you.
John 3:18-21
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I don't understand how people think there are 2 concurrent Covenants with God going on at the same time.
If fleshly jews want Salvation there is only One Covenant that they can rely on. They don't get a back up Covenant that protects their Rejection of Christ.
I've talked to dispensationalists before and they think that the prophecies of the Spiritual New Birth for the Christian is actually something that will PHYSICALLY happen for Jews in the future. I've said "isn't that what happens for Christians right now?" All I get are blank looks.
I suppose we all have our blind spots.
Here's a better Covenant if you want it but if you guys choose to REJECT Christ then that's ok, you have that other Covenant that will keep you.
John 3:18-21
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I don't understand how people think there are 2 concurrent Covenants with God going on at the same time.
If fleshly jews want Salvation there is only One Covenant that they can rely on. They don't get a back up Covenant that protects their Rejection of Christ.
I've talked to dispensationalists before and they think that the prophecies of the Spiritual New Birth for the Christian is actually something that will PHYSICALLY happen for Jews in the future. I've said "isn't that what happens for Christians right now?" All I get are blank looks.
I suppose we all have our blind spots.
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John MacArthur is pretty good..Steven Lawson is ok. I cannot deny that some dispensationalists know the Bible well in most respects.
We should follow suit in evangelism. Charismatics/Pentecostals are exemplary in this respect.
And, you are right..I don't really find that most dispensationalists can even tell me what they believe. The doctrine is elusive to nail down....the biggest common denominator, though, is a separation between the Church and Israel. That's why I am using this phrase Separation Theology. It is my response to their "replacement theology".
We should follow suit in evangelism. Charismatics/Pentecostals are exemplary in this respect.
And, you are right..I don't really find that most dispensationalists can even tell me what they believe. The doctrine is elusive to nail down....the biggest common denominator, though, is a separation between the Church and Israel. That's why I am using this phrase Separation Theology. It is my response to their "replacement theology".
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John MacArthur is pretty good..Steven Lawson is ok. I cannot deny that some dispensationalists know the Bible well in most respects.
We should follow suit in evangelism. Charismatics/Pentecostals are exemplary in this respect.
And, you are right..I don't really find that most dispensationalists can even tell me what they believe. The doctrine is elusive to nail down....the biggest common denominator, though, is a separation between the Church and Israel. That's why I am using this phrase Separation Theology. It is my response to their "replacement theology".
We should follow suit in evangelism. Charismatics/Pentecostals are exemplary in this respect.
And, you are right..I don't really find that most dispensationalists can even tell me what they believe. The doctrine is elusive to nail down....the biggest common denominator, though, is a separation between the Church and Israel. That's why I am using this phrase Separation Theology. It is my response to their "replacement theology".
you are more than a little selective in who you respond to
you also avoid hard questions regarding outrageious statements you have made
I bet you are really good a dodgeball
you started this op with rumor and insult and state if people have any questions you might not be able to answer them all because you have requested your account be closed
I guess you are just not getting all the kudos you thought you would