What do you believe and why do you believe it?

[Spectrox]

Interesting how what you have quoted (as my post) is actually information that was quoted BY my post. The content that I posted is actually nonexistent in the quote. I certainly hope that this was a foul up in the quoted post reply system (it happens) and not an intentional ploy to make it appear as if I was pushing some form of heresy.

This is how that conversation actually took place

sorry. My post should have been directed to Preston.

 

[Spectrox]

Really?
The voice I heard would teach me things I didn't know was in the bible, until I checked it out. Feelings don't do that.
There are words in the bible, interpreted as though there was a Greek or Hebrew word there, when there was not.
For example;
The bible talks about the old man, new man, spirit man, and hidden man.
These are real being in you that speak, among other things.

1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

It sounds like that hidden man of the hearts is that meek and quiet spirit, which is what I thought originally.
Until I was told there is no word "of" in the original language.
There is more than one word in the Greek for the word "of".
So that changed the meaning, entirely.
And the voice went on to tell me why he told me that and the real meaning of it.
Feelings don't yell or scream at you either.
And neither do feelings tell you what others are thinking or feeling in their heart.
Yes, many times it sounds like you are doing the talking, but that is where Jesus said, "My sheep KNOW my voice... "
It comes with time and experience I suppose.
But aside from that, my guess is, you NEVER saw God do a miracle, have you.
Like a real one that can't be explained away.
Have you ever been told, God says what He means, and means what He says?
Take Mark 11:24 for example.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

One reason why most people don't see God do any miracles is because they don't really believe what God said.
The above verse says, what ever YOU desire, shall be given to you, right?
Yes, but that is not the whole truth of this promise.
No, it doesn't have anything to do with what God's will is, like most are told.
God's will, according to this is to give you whatsoever YOU desire, IF, you follow through with the other conditions listed.
If you don't, I can guarantee you, absolutely NOTHING will happen, like it does for most ignorant Christians.
Most start out believing, because their faith hasn't been tested yet. And then they fall away or stop believing simply because nothing happened, like I said.
Many people die from wasting diseases, TRYING to believe. Saying they are believing, yet nothing happens.
There's a problem with that situation. Either what is written in the bible is a lie, which would mean, God lied, if you believe He wrote it through speaking to men of old, or the problem is with us.
And since most people can't handle the truth, along with, most don't know the truth, like most preacher, pastors, and teachers, they tell them, "it wasn't God's will for you or your loved one to be healed", and so they prepare the person to go "home" to be with the lord.
What a load of crap.
I could tell you a few reasons why both you and others failed to receive, and a lack of faith is not the only reason.
Most Christian are told their sins are automatically forgiven and therefore redeemed from the curses of both the law of sin and the law of death.
NOT!!!
So much ignorance in the church concerning the promises of God and how faith works.
Sickness CANNOT come on the righteous, only those who sin, because sin cause God to put a curse on the person, even Christians or believers, and therefore that gives the devil legal right to afflict the person with a sickness or disease.
You can't get rid of the sickness or disease, many times, until you get rid of the sin that causes the curse to come on you in the first place. If you did get rid of it without taking care of the sin, the condition WILL come back, guaranteed, only it will be worse than before, when it does.
You are no different than anyone else that TRIED to believe, "that faith stuff", and failed.
I have had a number of growths and condition leave or disappear, on myself and others, after praying or commanding the thing to leave, in Jesus' name. And that is because this faith stuff works. If it didn't, then nothing would happen.
At this point in my life, I both know and have experience, too much to be swayed from believing otherwise.
Had you got with someone who taught you the true truth from the start, you might not have been so easily turned from the truth of God's word.
If it works for both my family and I, as well as many others, it will do the same for you.
But just like it doesn't work for you, or at least, in your favor, neither does it work for all the so-called believers, or unbelieving/doubting Christian.
Hoping, wishing, and/or wondering won't cut it. It never has, and it never will.
But when you meet all the conditions of whatever promise you are standing on, God NEVER, EVER, EVER fails to do what He said He will do.

Does every Christian have the exact same experience as you?

 

[Spectrox]

I'm sorry, since you were talking about these measures as though you are qualified to judge and correct almighty sovereign God over them, I assumed you had some kind of knowledge about them.

But reality is that you are cursing God over things you don't actually understand or have a basis to judge?

I should have expected that tbh. The humanist atheistic evolutionary monism position requires that what you call 'reason' is only a predator/prey/reproduction feedback-loop-induced randomness of electrical pulse patterns in a temporary arrangement of basically mud under the psychosis that it is self aware and cognizant. It is shaped by survival pressure, which includes of course believing it is important and that it knows what its talking about, and being also shaped by pressure to find and attract suitable mates, it is inexorably vain. However it being nothing more than a random set of EM waves under the influence of random physical events, what it considers 'logical' has no epistemological basis to be considered as actually true.

With that in mind, of course you're talking nonsense, only making noise, and of course you don't think that's the case. Why would you? Natural selection demands that you consider your own thoughts authoritative, no matter how ridiculous they are from an objective standpoint - that's the snake eating itself. Humanism destroys its own logic by the basis on which it exalts itself, but can't admit that to itself, because admitting it's own fundamental derangement would be counterproductive to what it considers its own origin and motive force of 'existence' - what it calls existence, tho it is really only non existence waiting to be revealed as such, a temporary delusion of dust and EM waves consumed by self replicating self devourment.

Your paradigm, not mine.
I don't believe that rot at all, but the fundamentals of your belief system all humans are this way. We are nothing but a brief, meaningless static. That's your view of reality, if you were honest and thought it through.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. Please give me a concise clear explanation of your position. I don't want an essay or a stream of consciousness. What exactly is it that you are claiming?

 

[Spectrox]

Once

Really?
The voice I heard would teach me things I didn't know was in the bible, until I checked it out. Feelings don't do that.
There are words in the bible, interpreted as though there was a Greek or Hebrew word there, when there was not.
For example;
The bible talks about the old man, new man, spirit man, and hidden man.
These are real being in you that speak, among other things.

1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

It sounds like that hidden man of the hearts is that meek and quiet spirit, which is what I thought originally.
Until I was told there is no word "of" in the original language.
There is more than one word in the Greek for the word "of".
So that changed the meaning, entirely.
And the voice went on to tell me why he told me that and the real meaning of it.
Feelings don't yell or scream at you either.
And neither do feelings tell you what others are thinking or feeling in their heart.
Yes, many times it sounds like you are doing the talking, but that is where Jesus said, "My sheep KNOW my voice... "
It comes with time and experience I suppose.
But aside from that, my guess is, you NEVER saw God do a miracle, have you.
Like a real one that can't be explained away.
Have you ever been told, God says what He means, and means what He says?
Take Mark 11:24 for example.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

One reason why most people don't see God do any miracles is because they don't really believe what God said.
The above verse says, what ever YOU desire, shall be given to you, right?
Yes, but that is not the whole truth of this promise.
No, it doesn't have anything to do with what God's will is, like most are told.
God's will, according to this is to give you whatsoever YOU desire, IF, you follow through with the other conditions listed.
If you don't, I can guarantee you, absolutely NOTHING will happen, like it does for most ignorant Christians.
Most start out believing, because their faith hasn't been tested yet. And then they fall away or stop believing simply because nothing happened, like I said.
Many people die from wasting diseases, TRYING to believe. Saying they are believing, yet nothing happens.
There's a problem with that situation. Either what is written in the bible is a lie, which would mean, God lied, if you believe He wrote it through speaking to men of old, or the problem is with us.
And since most people can't handle the truth, along with, most don't know the truth, like most preacher, pastors, and teachers, they tell them, "it wasn't God's will for you or your loved one to be healed", and so they prepare the person to go "home" to be with the lord.
What a load of crap.
I could tell you a few reasons why both you and others failed to receive, and a lack of faith is not the only reason.
Most Christian are told their sins are automatically forgiven and therefore redeemed from the curses of both the law of sin and the law of death.
NOT!!!
So much ignorance in the church concerning the promises of God and how faith works.
Sickness CANNOT come on the righteous, only those who sin, because sin cause God to put a curse on the person, even Christians or believers, and therefore that gives the devil legal right to afflict the person with a sickness or disease.
You can't get rid of the sickness or disease, many times, until you get rid of the sin that causes the curse to come on you in the first place. If you did get rid of it without taking care of the sin, the condition WILL come back, guaranteed, only it will be worse than before, when it does.
You are no different than anyone else that TRIED to believe, "that faith stuff", and failed.
I have had a number of growths and condition leave or disappear, on myself and others, after praying or commanding the thing to leave, in Jesus' name. And that is because this faith stuff works. If it didn't, then nothing would happen.
At this point in my life, I both know and have experience, too much to be swayed from believing otherwise.
Had you got with someone who taught you the true truth from the start, you might not have been so easily turned from the truth of God's word.
If it works for both my family and I, as well as many others, it will do the same for you.
But just like it doesn't work for you, or at least, in your favor, neither does it work for all the so-called believers, or unbelieving/doubting Christian.
Hoping, wishing, and/or wondering won't cut it. It never has, and it never will.
But when you meet all the conditions of whatever promise you are standing on, God NEVER, EVER, EVER fails to do what He said He will do.

Once again I would direct all Christians to the concepts of Cold Reading and Confirmation Bias.

 

[Spectrox]

Co 5:14 The love of the Messiah controls us, for we are convinced of this: that one person died for all people; therefore, all people have died.

2Co 5:15 He died for all people, so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for the one who died and rose for them.

2Co 5:16 So then, from now on we do not think of anyone from a human point of view. Even if we did think of the Messiah from a human point of view, we don't think of him that way anymore.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in the Messiah, he is a new creation. Old things have disappeared, and—look!—all things have become new!

2Co 5:18 All of this comes from God, who has reconciled us to himself through the Messiah and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,

2Co 5:19 for through the Messiah, God was reconciling the world to himself by not counting their sins against them. He has committed his message of reconciliation to us.

2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are the Messiah's representatives, as though God were pleading through us. We plead on the Messiah's behalf: "Be reconciled to God!"

2Co 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that God's righteousness would be produced in us.

God holds nothing against anyone because of the obedience of His Son. But one thing and only one thing would keep a person from partaking of His goodness and that is unbelief. Failure to believe this word and receive His intercession on your behalf.

So what charge can anyone direct at the Lord in light of this truth?

What makes you think any of it is the truth? Give me your best reason.

 

[Spectrox]

It appears that you completely missed the point of my post. You argue that justice is proportional, but you overlook the reality of a boundless sin.

You have reasons for not believing that you find satisfactory. I assure you that they are not "good" for they will not excuse you from the justice that God holds for you. God understands evidence far better than you do; that's why He makes it clear that unbelievers are without excuse.

Cognitive dissonance is for those who refuse to think through the implications of their inadequate belief systems. I have found Christianity to be consistent and more than satisfactory intellectually, ethically, logically, historically, and morally. Islam and Mormonism are pathetic jokes in comparison.

You're stuck on genocide and slavery. Genocide, as you call it, was justice for a depth of sinfulness that only exists in novels (and abortion clinics) today. Slavery was limited by God, not endorsed wholesale.

You are still standing in judgment of God. That's not a place of wisdom.

What do you mean by boundless sin? Sounds like word salad to me.
The reasons why you find Islam and Mormonism a joke will be very similar to the reasons I find Christianity unacceptable.
In terms of slavery it did not escape my attention that you glossed over Exodus 21 and just how badly God allows slave owners to beat their slaves. That position feels more like boundless sin to me.

 

[Spectrox]

I don’t think any bible is perfect in every way, and yea there’s some wild thinking in this world.

if that burden of proof is on the Christian in what way does the proof need to be directed too?

The Bible is not perfect? Is a perfect Omni God not able to control the message in his own book? Burden of Proof is a logic term that applies to anyone making a positive claim. It doesn't mean you have to provide irrefutable proof of God but hopefully some good evidence or a demonstration that warrants a response from someone else who may be unconvinced.

 

[Spectrox]

Right … there certainly isn't any flaw in your understanding.

You need a check-up from the neck up because you have been shown that there were flaws in your understanding of certain records. Yet you will not admit the veracity of Scripture concerning those two records. What is up with that?

Why is it so hard for you to consider that the error is on your part (due to misunderstanding the record)? What other error[ s ] do you carry in your heart which keep you from full comprehension of the Creator?

Why is it so hard for you to state "Scripture is accurate" in those instances where you were shown that it was, in fact, your understanding of the record which was in error? That is an area where you need to search your heart.

In searching your heart, try to get to the root of why you find it so difficult to admit error in your understanding of Scripture. Perhaps you will find a need on your part to tweak your understanding concerning Scripture. Start afresh with a heart accepting of the Creator. Those records where you find yourself drawing away from Him … put those aside for the time being. Allow the Author to reveal to you what you need to know at any given time and then move on from there.

There is a flaw in your understanding. You are an intelligent person but you have not understood what I said. Just because no inconsistency can be proved between 2 narratives this does not automatically mean the accounts are describing true events or claims. Hence my Abraham Lincoln example. Neither am I claiming that those 2 events did not take place. I failed to prove a contradiction - that is all. Did you read my gumball analogy? I admitted the error in my claim that there was an inconsistency/ contradiction in the 2 examples discussed. Are you willing to admit that Jesus makes an error in predicting his Second Coming in Matthew 16? I'm beginning to think you are unable to answer this charge.

 

[Spectrox]

Fyi.......I have no interest in finding something wrong with you, it is not personal for me we are entering the world of ideas and rationalism.

Let us put aside the moral reasonong of wrong or right and see if there is a purely rational basis for the existence of a transcendent moral being?

Ok. What have you got?

 

[Spectrox]

Is it proof through science?

I am not a biochemist but if the 10^164 is an accurate probability then why does it necessarily mean a God exists? More importantly how does it necessarily mean the Biblical God exists when there are no accurate scientific predictions enclosed in its myriad of pages. A God would have to be at least as complex as the world he created. How did God's complexity arise?

 

[Spectrox]

A useful scientifically valid piece of information could have been revealed in The Bible that would have improved the lives of millions.
Why didnt God say something like
"There exist tiny invisible monsters on your bodies and on food. Wash your hands before preparing food and after you go to the toilet"
In other words a prediction of the Germ Theory of Disease.
Instead all we get are outlandish and unhelpful explanations involving demons.

 

[Lightskin]

A useful scientifically valid piece of information could have been revealed in The Bible that would have improved the lives of millions.
Why didnt God say something like
"There exist tiny invisible monsters on your bodies and on food. Wash your hands before preparing food and after you go to the toilet"
In other words a prediction of the Germ Theory of Disease.
Instead all we get are outlandish and unhelpful explanations involving demons.

God sacrificed His Son and some people who walked among Jesus didn’t believe in Him but you expect those people and more to understand invisible germs exist. Get real. Besides, faith can override health issues.

 

[Dino246]

What do you mean by boundless sin? Sounds like word salad to me.
The reasons why you find Islam and Mormonism a joke will be very similar to the reasons I find Christianity unacceptable.
In terms of slavery it did not escape my attention that you glossed over Exodus 21 and just how badly God allows slave owners to beat their slaves. That position feels more like boundless sin to me.

Go back and read my previous post. The "boundless sin" is one that persists and has no end. The rejection of God is the sin, and if you die rejecting God, you don't stop rejecting God. Slavery is not in the same category at all.

 

[no1]

Once

Once again I would direct all Christians to the concepts of Cold Reading and Confirmation Bias.

And I would redirect you to the truth of God's word whereby through them, we have received impossible healings, answered prayers, and miracles.
Signs follow true believers, not unbelievers or even doubting Christians.
Again, would you like to see a miracle, and if you did, would you then believe?

 

[no1]

Does every Christian have the exact same experience as you?

Would it matter if I were the only one?
What matters to me is, does what I have experienced line up with what is written?
The bible is my truth or lie meter, and truth cannot fail, ever. Otherwise it is not, or no long is, truth.
1+1=2 is both a law and a truth.
The moment 1+1 does not equal 2, that law/truth would cease to be a law or truth from that point on.
The same holds true for the word of God.
God HAS to answer my prayers and HAS to perform what I say, in faith, without fail.
If He did fail, which is impossible for Him to do, His word or promise would cease to be truth. Which means, it would be a lie.
You, according to Jesus, CANNOT receive truth because of the spirit in you.
Neither will you be able to either see/perceive or hear/comprehend/understand some of the truths we prevent to you, again, because you are of you father the devil, and the works of your father you will do.
That thing couldn't abide in the truth, and neither can you.
It can't receive truth, and neither can you, because it won't let you.
You will only be allowed to see and hear what it wants you to.
Until that spirit is cast out, you will remain as you are now.
Why else would someone who, at times sound so intelligent, concerning things in the natural world, but concerning things of other worlds or the spirit world, you not only miss such simple and obvious facts and truths, but respond with, what appears to be, such dull acuity.
The one thing I believe makes an intelligent person defy simple logic, rendering them stupid, is a demonic spirit.
But since you don't see or believe in The God of the bible, then I would figure, neither do you believe in evil spirits.
I therefore am speaking nonsense to you in your eyes.
Even the so-called Christians or believers who are carnally minded or how look after or at the things in the natural, are not able to see things of and in the spiritual.

Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[stonesoffire]

What makes you think any of it is the truth? Give me your best reason.

Experience with God Spectrox. I’ve received the baptism of Holy Spirit with tongues and other gifts.

When I was in sin, I had no power to be different. When Holy Spirit spoke to me and questioned me which way I would go, I chose His. Instant change like turning on the light switch and light floods the room.

Now many other experiences and adventures with the Lord. But, the new birth sealed the deal. 😉

 

[Dino246]

I am not a biochemist but if the 10^164 is an accurate probability then why does it necessarily mean a God exists? More importantly how does it necessarily mean the Biblical God exists when there are no accurate scientific predictions enclosed in its myriad of pages. A God would have to be at least as complex as the world he created. How did God's complexity arise?

There is a connection, and it need not be direct. The impossibility of a single protein forming by chance, and the fact that proteins do exist, means that they must have a non-natural origin. That origin must be "above" matter, and must be able to design and manipulate matter at every level, from the most fundamental laws to the entire universe.

The Bible makes no attempt to conform to the structure of a modern scientific tome. It simply states what is and always has been (God), historical truth, future events (prophecy, much of it fulfilled already), and the way in which humans may be in right relationship with God (through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ). Rejecting the Bible because it doesn't make scientific predictions is like rejecting a hamburger because it isn't a bicycle.

The Bible makes it clear that God didn't "arise". He simply is. As long as you try to squeeze God into a box of your own making, you will find that He doesn't fit.

 

[posthuman]

Please stop putting words in my mouth. Please give me a concise clear explanation of your position. I don't want an essay or a stream of consciousness. What exactly is it that you are claiming?

atheistic evolutionary monism is inescapably nihilistic. the direct implications of its tenets include ultimate non-existence and erode the very basis of the legitimacy of human thought, supplanting it with randomized temporary psychosis. in this it is self-contradictory as it relies upon its own internal epistemological awareness and analysis while it simultaneously denies its own existence and justification of logical coherence.
it is the 'theology' of the religion called 'humanism' which is worship of man.

i have not given you my position at all. i have been revealing your position for what it is, because atheist humanistic monists do not generally admit the core doctrines underpinning their religion to themselves or to others, neither do they generally comprehend them, but spend their time and thought finding duplicitous and flimsy arguments for use in attacking theists rather than examining their own tenuous beliefs.

i do not believe any of that rot.
i believe in substance-dualism, in a physical body which is an apparatus inhabited by a non-physical soul, both being the work of one divine, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and omnibenevolent Creator who has imbued man with His breath of life.
i believe man is essentially 'poisoned' in a pervasive way with what we call sin: this sin being not a physical, but a spiritual property. man is not monistic in substance ((i.e. simply physical)) but has both a physical and a spiritual substantive existence.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God - God Himself made flesh - who came to 'heal the sick' and provide salvation to all who believe Him. the gospel is not provided as an 'escape' from the objective reality of atheist humanistic evolutionary monism's bleak non-existent & utterly hopeless nothingness. that objective reality is simply not factual; substance-monism is false.

 

[posthuman]

But your argument seems to be that if you believe The Bible strongly enough you will guarantee escaping from the horror of annihilation, which I find ridiculous. How do you even begin to demonstrate this absurdity?

i do not believe in annihilationism at all. some of my brothers and sisters disagree with me on that point, but that's a wholly different subject.

i have been portraying atheist humanistic evolutionary monism as the nihilistic meaninglessness that it absolutely is, by it's own logical underpinnings.

the gospel is not salvation from a rubbish worldview; it is healing of the foundational disease of sin. it must be understood from a correct worldview, which you do not have. step 1 is get the right worldview. without that you cannot possibly understand the message we have here.

how do you even begin to demonstrate the absurdity of atheist humanistic evolutionary monism?
one way is this: explain the existence, location and origin of consciousness.

 

[Spectrox]

God sacrificed His Son and some people who walked among Jesus didn’t believe in Him but you expect those people and more to understand invisible germs exist. Get real. Besides, faith can override health issues.

If I had been God I would have written that in the Bible because not only would it have been helpful (and no less unbelievable than angels, demons or witches) but it would have been good evidence that the Bible had prior knowledge of the truth. Much clearer than so-called prophecies. Faith overriding health issues? Do you mean the placebo effect?