Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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cv5 said:
I am not sure why you disagree, but I am fully convinced of the Pre-Trib Rapture, as evidently you do also. I am pointing out that Paul is referring to a Pre-Trib Rapture in 2 Thess 2, despite the controversy. The question is who and when. In this passage it is the Church (the Bride) and pre-wrath. OT saints are a different time and space.
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No, Paul is not.........He uses a Grandsville Sharp in GREEK...........the parousia (coming = body presence of Christ) THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together UNTO HIM SHALL NOT COME......UNTIL

a. APO-HYSTAMIE <--apostasy

AND

b. THAT MAN OF SIN REVEALED <----SITTING on the THRONE claiming to be GOD and worshipped as GOD
 
VCO

VCO

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cv5 said:
Jesus is already Lord. The more we acknowledge this fact in our pilgrimage, the more fruit we will bear IMO.
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Can you honestly say HE is your Personal LORD, which means Master? That is where Born Again begins.
 
cv5

cv5

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dcontroversal said:
No, Paul is not.........He uses a Grandsville Sharp in GREEK...........the parousia (coming = body presence of Christ) THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together UNTO HIM SHALL NOT COME......UNTIL

a. APO-HYSTAMIE <--apostasy

AND

b. THAT MAN OF SIN REVEALED <----SITTING on the THRONE claiming to be GOD and worshipped as GOD
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Sorry....I am missing your point. No pre trib rapture or yes to apostasy coming first?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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cv5 said:
Sorry....I am missing your point. No pre trib rapture or yes to apostasy coming first?
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Both migo.......

Apostasy/MAN of SIN revealed 1st

POST Great Trib/PRE-Wrath ingathering

I was raised in a church that taught pre-trib....I believed it, stood on it, dogmatically defended it.......then I had to teach through 1st and 2nd Thessalonians and while studying through the bible twice a year in Seminary I began to see things that did not jive with the pre-trib "rapture"

There are too many contradictions IMV to embrace that view any longer......
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

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Mar 24, 2019
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stillness said:
"And besides this, ad to your Faith, Vurtue... These are the Fruit of the Spirit, that we bear as we dwell in God and walk in Love. Jesus said, "If a man abides not in me, He is cast out as a branch and withers." If we are ofended and dont forgive, we are not forgiven. If we have unresolved anger we dont go on to perfection, neither if we have pride of achievment. These are the dead works that we all have to face and be free of by the "Work of God." This is the will of God, even your santification." That is

"Faith Works by Love.:
"This is the work of God: to believe on Him whim He has sent." To those who "Believe," "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."
Simple equation: "Faith Hope and Love remain." Same as saying "Faith works by Love." Thats all that remains. Jesus is the hope in us and He is the one who does the work in us. "He that is joined to the Lord becomes one Spirit with Him." If you believe, you work along with God. Jesus was not saved by works, He wad saved by the Holy Spirit who raised Him from the dead. Yet jesus came to do the work of God. But many of you have no interest in going on to perfection, Jesus said so, "Strive to enter in at the straigjt gate, for many shall seek tobenter in and shall not be able." To some work only means trying to pprove yourselves to God on your own eforts, and not "Christ in you the Work or Hope of Glory. Good luck getting past blocks in your understanding and if you did you only begin to enter Wisdom, "To know the Love of God," Those of you who think you already know, have stoped learning. "If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he should."
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Please don't use quotes and nit pick sections of verses to try and build a theology. Makes for a weak and broken stance on scriptures.

So much wrong here it is as if you have never read the bible yourself.

Though I doubt that is the case. What most likely happened is you read it with false ideas and bias and it made it like you were wearing goggles the whole time which lead to a rough case of "fractal wrongness".



An example:


Stillness says: Jesus said, "If a man abides not in me, He is cast out as a branch and withers." If we are ofended and dont forgive, we are not forgiven. If we have unresolved anger we dont go on to perfection, neither if we have pride of achievment.

The bible says:
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Context :
there are two sorts of brances here


branches that bare fruit
_____
"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"
_______

and branches void of any fruit
____
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"


this whole thing is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own

compared to the lack of power in fakers

pay attention to when this was said...
and what happened with judas specifically
.....
this is about two separate sorts of men/women who claim to be in Him and are part of the congregation


nothing to do with how to earn or keep salvation

(it is a gift by grace through faith)

men can't see all like God

man may say "where is this persons fruit" through a series of poor encounters

but God may know them and be working in them already


... even peter denied Jesus 3 times

there were men who could have clearly stated "he is not a believer"

but God knew better

_____________
 
cv5

cv5

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dcontroversal said:
Both migo.......

Apostasy/MAN of SIN revealed 1st

POST Great Trib/PRE-Wrath ingathering

I was raised in a church that taught pre-trib....I believed it, stood on it, dogmatically defended it.......then I had to teach through 1st and 2nd Thessalonians and while studying through the bible twice a year in Seminary I began to see things that did not jive with the pre-trib "rapture"

There are too many contradictions IMV to embrace that view any longer......
Click to expand...
The way I see it, there is a clean break, and that is the revealing of the man of sin. In any case I consider you a Brother so never any hard feelings my friend. I am basically 99% in agreement with Ahwatukee as regards end times.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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cv5 said:
The way I see it, there is a clean break, and that is the revealing of the man of sin. In any case I consider you a Brother so never any hard feelings my friend. I am basically 99% in agreement with Ahwatukee as regards end times.
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Same view....and I have read his view....many errors........all I am gonna say.....and just a point to ponder....do you believe in eternal security? and If so....can one that teaches a losable salvation (different gospel) be saved and then have any understanding of a subject greater than salvation?
 
U

UnderGrace

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#106,550
dcontroversal said:
Same view....and I have read his view....many errors........all I am gonna say.....and just a point to ponder....do you believe in eternal security? and If so....can one that teaches a losable salvation (different gospel) be saved and then have any understanding of a subject greater than salvation?
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Good point and I have thought this as well.

I actually do not pay any attention to these teachers/preachers.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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The bible is spiritual in nature, origin and understanding....if one cannot even get salvation correct, they cannot even begin to grasp anything beyond salvation.....

Corinthians teaches this truth.....the NATURAL man cannot KNOW, discern and or spiritually understand the word of God.......

A man that teaches a losable salvation has no understanding and or spiritual insight into the end of the age and or the second coming!!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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UnderGrace said:
Good point and I have thought this as well.

I actually do not pay any attention to these teachers/preachers.
Click to expand...

Amen....and it is a factual statement....he cannot even get salvation right....and if he cannot get that right, he has NO spiritual insight into the end of the age......much less the 2nd coming of Christ......
 
cv5

cv5

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dcontroversal said:
Same view....and I have read his view....many errors........all I am gonna say.....and just a point to ponder....do you believe in eternal security? and If so....can one that teaches a losable salvation (different gospel) be saved and then have any understanding of a subject greater than salvation?
Click to expand...
Yes definitely eternal security, nope never encountered and problems with Ahwatukee in his view of ES.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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Well, off to teach a handful of neighbors for 1.5 hours straight.....Imagine most "church members" willingly sitting through 1.5 hours of bible instruction without constantly checking watches, the clock or mouthing, griping and complaining under their breath HAHHAH

Keep swinging the swords (those that teach the truth that is)
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

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May 3, 2017
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dcontroversal said:
Well, off to teach a handful of neighbors for 1.5 hours straight.....Imagine most "church members" willingly sitting through 1.5 hours of bible instruction without constantly checking watches, the clock or mouthing, griping and complaining under their breath HAHHAH

Keep swinging the swords (those that teach the truth that is)
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Hi Dcon...
May the word of our Lord be spoken out from your mouth by the leading of the Holy Spirit...
May ears be opened and hearts softened to the wonders of God...
It is important to pray for those who teach others , have a blessed day my brother...
...xox...
 
U

UnderGrace

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#106,558
dcontroversal said:
Amen....and it is a factual statement....he cannot even get salvation right....and if he cannot get that right, he has NO spiritual insight into the end of the age......much less the 2nd coming of Christ......
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Not sure you will agree, but unfortunately there are also people who hold to eternal security that are also false teachers?

Satan likes to keep all his bases covered.
 
VCO

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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#106,559
VCO said:
Can you honestly say HE is your Personal LORD, which means Master? That is where Born Again begins.
Click to expand...


Colossians 3:15 (HCSB)
15 And let the peace of the Messiah, to which you were also called in one body, control your hearts. Be thankful.


Colossians 3:15 (NASB)
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
 
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