Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

Right on.
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Also the Old testament speaks about cutting off "the foreskins of your hearts" (removing the flesh from us)

People did not circumcise themselves. According to the law it was done when there were only days old. so it was not even by their own choosing that they were circumcised (unless they were a gentile trying to conform to jewish law)

 

[Yahshua]

The circumcision not made with hands, yes
Thanks

But was physical circumcision ever called purification?
What was it explained to Abraham as, and what did the law describe it as?

The true meanings of physical/shadow version of laws were never fully explained prior to Christ. It was just "do this; do that".

That was one of the things Christ came to do, to give true meaning of laws that were given (full of grace & truth). For example, He gave the true understanding about the adultery law (which was originally understood as just the physical act), as being an act of one's heart (lusting).

All Abraham would've understood the adultery law as being was the physical act (during those scenes where his wife was mistaken for his sister and taken).

After Christ, we don't make a distinction between adultery of the heart vs. physical adultery because we know adultery is adultery. We know it's the same law taken from letter to Spirit. We must be equally as consistent with circumcision of the heart vs. physical circumsision. Circumcision is circumcision. It's the same law taken from the letter to the Spirit.

 

[SimpleGardner]

The law says to honor your father and mother

when you do this, you are doing a task.

if you are doing it BECAUSE the law says do it, you are completing a task of the law.

Once again, Moses said that the people must confirm and OBEY EVERY WORD.

So being obedient to the law and not breaking any of them was a work at being justified in your actions (by what you do)

so yes. Working at the ten commands is also a work of justification. (of course, once you break one, your done)

I think the absurdity of your argument is that many people who don't even know the ten commandments but who are led by the Holy Spirit could not fathom the idea of nit picking whether to honor their father and mother or not to steal or not the Love God with every ounce of their ability!

So to speak of "The Law" so disparagingly most of us wonder why you are even here!

What could your doctrine possibly offer a believer who absolutely loves Keeping every one of Gods laws and would do so even under penalty of death because they agree with them that much?

That heart is the one God Made, and you criticize it!?

Man are you in for a RUDE awakening!

SG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think the absurdity of your argument is that many people who don't even know the ten commandments but who are led by the Holy Spirit could not fathom the idea of nit picking whether to honor their father and mother or not to steal or not the Love God with every ounce of their ability!

So to speak of "The Law" so disparagingly most of us wonder why you are even here!

dude I am getting a little sick of your arrogant sarcasm. You refuse to sit and try to understand what I am trying to say, yet you think you have the right to judge me and call me out?

Before you start judging people. It would help for you to actually sit down and listen to what they are saying.

Just do you (and everyone who read what you just accused me of) The context of my words were working at the law to save themselves. According to the person I was responding to. It means doing levitical works of the law. My attempt ws to show that people also use obedience to commands to justify themselves (we see this in the NT also.

But for some reason, you have avendetta against me, So you have to nit pick everything I say, so you continue to attack with this nonsense that you believe I am saying this, when in reality I am saying that. And you do not do it to just me you do it to everyone who disagrees with you. Then you start attacking us for having an attitude, or not being christlike. Or haveing a tone in our voice.

Well right now I do have a tone, Because I am calling a spade what it is, a spade!

I tried to explain to you yesterday how the only difference in my opinion between our views is what we think empowers us to be obedient to God (the root of our disagreement) We both believe in obedience (I have never denied you really want to be obedient now have I?) but since you can not HEAR a word I say, you continually say I do not think obedience is necessary.

Well once again, YOUR WRONG!

If you can not set your PRIDE aside for a few minutes and liten to what people are tryign to tell you. I must ask, WHY ARE YOU HERE IN A BIBLE DISCUSSION FORUM?

Because it is evident the last thing on your mind is true discussion of what people think the bible says.

What could your doctrine possibly offer a believer who absolutely loves Keeping every one of Gods laws and would do so even under penalty of death because they agree with them that much?

That heart is the one God Made, and you criticize it!?

Man are you in for a RUDE awakening!

SG

My doctrine EMPOWERS people to keep Gods laws. it offers them the POWER to keep Gods laws. And it offers the MOTIVATION to keep gods laws.

It also offers FORGIVENESS for when we stumble and do not keep Gods laws (which we wiLL DO)

But of course you can not see this, BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO WIPE YOUR EYES SO YOU CAN SEE..

Which is something YOUR DOCTRINE does not offer. (Although you claim it does. I can not see it) Because your doctrine states th eblood of Christ is only good up to a certain point. After that, it has no power

 

[posthuman]

how was a female circumcized so she could be cleansed?

Does this have to do with the mystery of 'sin came through one man' - - even tho it was the Woman who first sinned?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Does this have to do with the mystery of 'sin came through one man' - - even tho it was the Woman who first sinned?

I am just going by the law. If circumcision is required to be cleansed, how was a woman cleansed?

 

[PS]

You think Moses was worshiping Baal, and Baal was who brought them out of Egypt?
Because you don't understand why God ordered them to slay all the people who were actually worshiping Baal and enticing them to do the same?

'spare the lives of the young virgin girls' isn't a command to rape them.

It was the pre-incarnate Jesus who brought them out of Egypt using nature over which he has control and the same with the parting of the Red Sea which only God could do. Equally God could have led them into the Promised Land without Bloodshed. After the parting of the Red Sea everything went horribly wrong, the people turned to false gods as is well recorded in the Bible, and there you have it. Nothing has changed since and the people with their religious rituals, customs and laws are as far away from the saviour of mankind as they ever have been. Jesus is rejected by most and consequently the Father, as Jesus stated. I see it on the forums as well. I wish it were not true.

 

[NayborBear]

If your hope is uncertainty then it is not hope at all. Maybe that helmet of hope isn't even there.

If your hope is certain that helmet is pretty strong.


Can we trust in what the Lord has said for CERTAIN?

Or is it much better to work instead and then hope your work is good enough?


Its your choice. I just hope you start making better ones. Better start asking for help.

Well? We agree on one thing these days, Grandpa.

It is my choice in not calling the the "Gospel Helmet" "hope FOR salvation", and NOT a CERTAINTY!

Too many "dinged up" casualties, preaching "Don't go out there!" "We've been there!" "It's MUCH SAFER HERE, in the "bosom" of God's Grace!"

 

[posthuman]

It was the pre-incarnate Jesus who brought them out of Egypt using nature over which he has control and the same with the parting of the Red Sea which only God could do. Equally God could have led them into the Promised Land without Bloodshed. After the parting of the Red Sea everything went horribly wrong, the people turned to false gods as is well recorded in the Bible, and there you have it. Nothing has changed since and the people with their religious rituals, customs and laws are as far away from the saviour of mankind as they ever have been. Jesus is rejected by most and consequently the Father, as Jesus stated. I see it on the forums as well. I wish it were not true.

All throughout Exodus and Joshua and through all the prophets it is YHWH named as the God speaking.
So I wonder at what point is it you think the Bible - without giving any indication I know of - suddenly switches to 'fake YHWH'?

For sure they worshipped other gods. They have names like Baal and Astoreh and Molech and Dagon. That is specifically said throughout the OT, said in fact by the one who calls Himself YHWH.

Is it the fact of bloodshed? He didn't bring them out of Egypt without shedding blood, but killed every firstborn. And He chastened Israel too by the shedding of their blood. What is it if He who judges the quick and the dead said, drive out all the wicked people in the land lest you run after their idols and commit the same abominations that they do?

Was it real YHWH or fake YHWH who destroyed Sodom?

Why does the Bibles text give no indication that there is such a thing as a false YHWH? Do you think it the text is mostly lies after they left Egypt?

 

[posthuman]

Tho He slay me, yet will i still praise Him

 

[posthuman]

It is my choice in not calling the the "Gospel Helmet" "hope FOR salvation", and NOT a CERTAINTY!

We have a sure hope; He who called you is faithful and He will do it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We have a sure hope; He who called you is faithful and He will do it.

In the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

 

[Dan_473]

Yes, amen, walking by the spirit!

One question I have is if the spirit will lead some people to deal with just one law, for example love your neighbor.

but someone else the spirit might lead to physically keep some of the laws that Moses wrote down in the wilderness.

I think the answer is yes, as the Spirit led Paul to live as a Jew in some cases
1 Corinthians 9: 20. To the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain those who are under the law.

But for me though, living around gentiles in the 21st century in western civilization, I feel the spirit leave me just to keep the one law.

Oops
That last line
"I feel the spirit leave me just to keep the one law."

It should be
Lead me
Not
Leave me

 

[DeighAnn]

Hey I am still waiting for an answer

How can you say you believe in grace (unmerited favor) yet refuse to believe in eternal security (based on unmerited favor)

Because it is a doctrine of man. Because of the ADVERSARY. Because of the lambs.

We are given a gift, "unmerited" God has given it.

No matter what happens AFTER that point, NOTHING will never change the fact that that gift was given, just as promised.

You accept that gift and love it and treat it with respect, that gift is yours. Yours to keep, yours forever. As long as you don't mock God. Can you totally mess up? Yes, God made it way more accepting of not being "perfect" THROUGH THE WORK OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. And He tells us, so we are not in any way deceived that the Word of God pierces so deep that it will divide the soul and spirit and discern the thoughts and intents of every one. And, He will not be mocked. We may fool each other, not one will fool Him. Remember that Wedding guest, cast out.

No, I do not believe any true child of God will ever lose their salvation.

Bu, t for some unknown reason, and God is screaming at us EVERYWHERE in the Word, all of Gods children don't seem to want to fight the devil amongst us. They want to ignore the fact that the adversary is here and is going to use every single loophole he can, to "rip and tear" Gods children out of Gods hands. And YOU AND I ARE supposed to be wiser than the serpent meaning, WE should be closing up any teaching that may allow this to occur at any point in a persons life especially one who has not been filled with the Holy Spirit, ESPECIALLY if they believe they have AND THEY SOULD NEVER be able to believe they have and to be sure that if they "believe" it they know they will lose it if they don't stay with it.

You keep teaching sheep, like the lambs don't exist, when you should be teaching lambs like the sheep don't exist. I am trying to teach the LAMBS, along with the sheep. If people who have "never really been saved" believe in OSAS, WE LOSE them. Can you hear that? WE WILL LOSE the chance to keep them from Satan, who WILL USE THAT to "keep them believing in a lie" . IF, on the other hand, we teach that "you can yourself lose your salvation by turning your back on God, when Satan gets a hold of that person, they don't have some false sense of comfort. When they do get carried away with the things of this world, they are in complete knowledge that they will be held responsible for those sins and they can go to far.

FEED MY LAMBS.

To go about getting to the "truth" of Gods word when you have been studying it for ever, is just dessert really. But it best not be the main meal. That is what "the learned men" thought and did. If you are completing disregarding the presence of the adversary and what is really going on in the flesh world, you are not helping God find all those souls He has been longsuffering for to find and bring home. Go, teach, Baptize.

If you are not teaching in a manner "wiser than the serpent" and there is a possibility that there are lambs receiving false hope because they think someone telling them "Jesus Saves" is all it takes, and that falls under "Faith come by hearing and hearing by the Word of God", we are in a lot of trouble. You know who is running wild with that teaching? The adversary. Give it to them easy, and complete and they will never open up the Bible a day in their lives. You know, God is love. Maybe that is how we got into this mess of Christians not knowing much or giving more than a hour a week in a pew for their entire lives when someone should have been screaming out
"WE ARE BEING OFFERED ETERNAL LIFE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS WORTH?"

Man can't "work" for any gifts, because all glory for our salvation and all that is good and all that is righteous, goes to God. All glory for all goes to God, boasting men don't please Him.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves it is the gift of God
By the grace of God, we find the Word,

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And faith comes from hearing, and you learn to hear by the word of God. So how much do you need to hear to have faith? ALOT more than what Satan is selling. We are losing people by the 1000s to him because of an "easy" row to hoe.

BUT NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL. FEED MY Lambs.

Satan didn't like that gift, Satan, went against everything God stood for. Satan tossed out that gift in favor of doing things his way. God will not be mocked. Deny and you will be denied. I never knew you. You know, the list goes on and on and on. And I do not deny that some of the explanations are very good and some true, but common sense and knowing what Gods plan is tells me, "Don't leave anything to chance or Satan will use It". Yes, I believe that once a true child of God has been saved it is for ever. What I don't believe is the "doctrine" man has put forth, that shortens the entire process down to OSAS, allowing the influx of demons into the true saving process of God.

For us to teach that because God gave you a gift, He is now indebted to you forever, no matter what you do with it, Mocks the Word of God.

God says I will not be mocked. How much sin is tooo much sin? I could not, nor could anyone else, presume to tell you what is "one to many steps away, " just as no one can tell you when it will be "one day to late". That is up to God. ALL I AM SAYING, IS HE SAYS THERE IS" ONE" TO MANY.

Yes, we are given a gift, "unmerited" . God doesn't take it away. The gift remains given. But if the person no longer wants it, or breaks it, or throws it away, It doesn't change that the gift was given. They received it. They beheld it, it was theirs to do with it what ever they wanted. God never said "once you have accepted it I will make sure all your decisions will be such that you can't lose It".

 

[Whispered]

Well? We agree on one thing these days, Grandpa.

It is my choice in not calling the the "Gospel Helmet" "hope FOR salvation", and NOT a CERTAINTY!

Too many "dinged up" casualties, preaching "Don't go out there!" "We've been there!" "It's MUCH SAFER HERE, in the "bosom" of God's Grace!"

Very good observations I think.
I don't know why there are doctrines out there that teach contrary to what is the written words of our Father. It is almost as if those teachers think their students will believe what they indoctrinate their members into, resting assured those members will never read the Bible for themselves.
We cannot work to be saved nor to stay saved. Imagine if that were at all possible what would happen? Jesus would have never been born. He would not have been needed to fulfill the Messiah prophecy if the fallen human race could work hard and receive God's gift of eternal life.
God's grace is a free irrevocable gift from the creator of everything. All we need do is to believe. That's not work. That's faith.

Again, I think your post was very well put.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because it is a doctrine of man. Because of the ADVERSARY. Because of the lambs.

We are given a gift, "unmerited" God has given it.

No matter what happens AFTER that point, NOTHING will never change the fact that that gift was given, just as promised.

You accept that gift and love it and treat it with respect, that gift is yours. Yours to keep, yours forever. As long as you don't mock God. Can you totally mess up? Yes, God made it way more accepting of not being "perfect" THROUGH THE WORK OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. And He tells us, so we are not in any way deceived that the Word of God pierces so deep that it will divide the soul and spirit and discern the thoughts and intents of every one. And, He will not be mocked. We may fool each other, not one will fool Him. Remember that Wedding guest, cast out.

No, I do not believe any true child of God will ever lose their salvation.

Bu, t for some unknown reason, and God is screaming at us EVERYWHERE in the Word, all of Gods children don't seem to want to fight the devil amongst us. They want to ignore the fact that the adversary is here and is going to use every single loophole he can, to "rip and tear" Gods children out of Gods hands. And YOU AND I ARE supposed to be wiser than the serpent meaning, WE should be closing up any teaching that may allow this to occur at any point in a persons life especially one who has not been filled with the Holy Spirit, ESPECIALLY if they believe they have AND THEY SOULD NEVER be able to believe they have and to be sure that if they "believe" it they know they will lose it if they don't stay with it.

You keep teaching sheep, like the lambs don't exist, when you should be teaching lambs like the sheep don't exist. I am trying to teach the LAMBS, along with the sheep. If people who have "never really been saved" believe in OSAS, WE LOSE them. Can you hear that? WE WILL LOSE the chance to keep them from Satan, who WILL USE THAT to "keep them believing in a lie" . IF, on the other hand, we teach that "you can yourself lose your salvation by turning your back on God, when Satan gets a hold of that person, they don't have some false sense of comfort. When they do get carried away with the things of this world, they are in complete knowledge that they will be held responsible for those sins and they can go to far.

FEED MY LAMBS.

To go about getting to the "truth" of Gods word when you have been studying it for ever, is just dessert really. But it best not be the main meal. That is what "the learned men" thought and did. If you are completing disregarding the presence of the adversary and what is really going on in the flesh world, you are not helping God find all those souls He has been longsuffering for to find and bring home. Go, teach, Baptize.

If you are not teaching in a manner "wiser than the serpent" and there is a possibility that there are lambs receiving false hope because they think someone telling them "Jesus Saves" is all it takes, and that falls under "Faith come by hearing and hearing by the Word of God", we are in a lot of trouble. You know who is running wild with that teaching? The adversary. Give it to them easy, and complete and they will never open up the Bible a day in their lives. You know, God is love. Maybe that is how we got into this mess of Christians not knowing much or giving more than a hour a week in a pew for their entire lives when someone should have been screaming out
"WE ARE BEING OFFERED ETERNAL LIFE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS WORTH?"

Man can't "work" for any gifts, because all glory for our salvation and all that is good and all that is righteous, goes to God. All glory for all goes to God, boasting men don't please Him.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves it is the gift of God
By the grace of God, we find the Word,

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And faith comes from hearing, and you learn to hear by the word of God. So how much do you need to hear to have faith? ALOT more than what Satan is selling. We are losing people by the 1000s to him because of an "easy" row to hoe.

BUT NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL. FEED MY Lambs.

Satan didn't like that gift, Satan, went against everything God stood for. Satan tossed out that gift in favor of doing things his way. God will not be mocked. Deny and you will be denied. I never knew you. You know, the list goes on and on and on. And I do not deny that some of the explanations are very good and some true, but common sense and knowing what Gods plan is tells me, "Don't leave anything to chance or Satan will use It". Yes, I believe that once a true child of God has been saved it is for ever. What I don't believe is the "doctrine" man has put forth, that shortens the entire process down to OSAS, allowing the influx of demons into the true saving process of God.

For us to teach that because God gave you a gift, He is now indebted to you forever, no matter what you do with it, Mocks the Word of God.

God says I will not be mocked. How much sin is tooo much sin? I could not, nor could anyone else, presume to tell you what is "one to many steps away, " just as no one can tell you when it will be "one day to late". That is up to God. ALL I AM SAYING, IS HE SAYS THERE IS" ONE" TO MANY.

Yes, we are given a gift, "unmerited" . God doesn't take it away. The gift remains given. But if the person no longer wants it, or breaks it, or throws it away, It doesn't change that the gift was given. They received it. They beheld it, it was theirs to do with it what ever they wanted. God never said "once you have accepted it I will make sure all your decisions will be such that you can't lose It".

If my gift is dependent on me, then it is not unmerited. I have to MERIT the gift by doing the things you said must be done.

*. I have to continue to want it. In order to merit it. (Of course why would a person who is TRULY saved ever want to give it up? I am not buying that people who have experienced Gods true love would ever refuse to want it)
*. I have to merit it by not breaking it (how do you break it) in other words, it is a fragile thing, So fragil that a person can break it. again, Not buying it, It is paid in full.. And it is inbrakable) it is even sealed by the spirit until the day of redemption)
*. I have to merit it by not throwing it away, (how do you throw something that is spiritual away? I mean did you adopt God or did God adopt you? If you think it can be thrown away, All I can consider is you do not understand what “IT” is.
* almost missed you last point. That I must merit it by making sure ALL MY DECISIONS are such that it is not lost.

So as you can see, You do not believe we are saved by grace, you believe we are saved by works. We merit salvation by of our own power making sure we continue to make the right decisions.

Thanks for clarifying this,, There is no more question in my mind what you believe anymore.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Very good observations I think.
I don't know why there are doctrines out there that teach contrary to what is the written words of our Father. It is almost as if those teachers think their students will believe what they indoctrinate their members into, resting assured those members will never read the Bible for themselves.
We cannot work to be saved nor to stay saved. Imagine if that were at all possible what would happen? Jesus would have never been born. He would not have been needed to fulfill the Messiah prophecy if the fallen human race could work hard and receive God's gift of eternal life.
God's grace is a free irrevocable gift from the creator of everything. All we need do is to believe. That's not work. That's faith.

Again, I think your post was very well put.

Sadly we see alot of this in here One way to recognize is is when you have people who continue to claim other people believe something that is not even close to being true, they can not understand what the other is trying to say, and they usually listen to keywords to try to say aha! I got ya!!

 

[DeighAnn]

so yes. Working at the ten commands is also a work of justification. (of course, once you break one, your done)

Every time you say this, You are stealing from the Work that Christ Jesus did, and making void the word of God. If you are never going to accept His accomplishment of getting rid of the old covenant of "death and ministration and break one break them all and "done" then why do you stand by anything else He accomplished? Start preaching the Law of the Kingdom of God, and quit quoting as if it were in any way binding of us today the law of Moses.

The 10 Commandments are Gods Law, once written in stone by Gods Hand and now written in our hearts (so we feel it) and our minds (so we know it) by the same God who wrote them in stone. They are not a part of the laws of Moses. They are separate from and they are eternal. Gods law was present from the beginning. Moses law came way later and was temporary.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law for sin is the transgression of the law. Did Adam and Eve sin? Was there a "law of Moses" at the time? No, well, there you have it.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

[DeighAnn]

If my gift is dependent on me, then it is not unmerited. I have to MERIT the gift by doing the things you said must be done.

Those come after. Not before. Hence unmerited WHEN GIVEN. THEN your presuppose all the rest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Every time you say this, You are stealing from the Work that Christ Jesus did, and making void the word of God. If you are never going to accept His accomplishment of getting rid of the old covenant of "death and ministration and break one break them all and "done" then why do you stand by anything else He accomplished? Start preaching the Law of the Kingdom of God, and quit quoting as if it were in any way binding of us today the law of Moses.

The 10 Commandments are Gods Law, once written in stone by Gods Hand and now written in our hearts (so we feel it) and our minds (so we know it) by the same God who wrote them in stone. They are not a part of the laws of Moses. They are separate from and they are eternal. Gods law was present from the beginning. Moses law came way later and was temporary.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law for sin is the transgression of the law. Did Adam and Eve sin? Was there a "law of Moses" at the time? No, well, there you have it.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

No, I am not stealing anything away from what Christ did., I stated a fact, of what people in judaism thought.

As for Jesus, He died BECAUSE we can not keep the law..

Saying that one CAN keep the law is taking away from jesus, Saying the GIFT he offers can be lost takes away from Jesus, Saying the adoption as sons can be nullified based on something we do or we do not do is what takes away from jesus.

I just state facts, the jews thought they earned justification because THEY OBEYED ThE LAW SINCE BIRTH, and how many times did jesus try to tell them they were wrong?

If you people can not acknowledge this fact of judaism, then who can help you?