The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?

[Ahwatukee]

All believers are clothed with the righteousness of Christ - the Sun.
Why do you think Christ being he woman's covering is a misapplication of scripture?

Because you are attempting to apply Mal.4:2 just because it has the word "sun" in it, but doesn't mention any of the other symbols.

I have already explained all this to you and provided the scriptures. If you can't see that the woman of Revelation 12 figuratively represents the nation Israel, then believe whatever you will.

The symbols of the sun, moon and stars mentioned in Genesis 37 identify the woman of Revelation 12 with the same symbols as figuratively representing the nation Israel.

 

[Ahwatukee]

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/11.htm

In Rev.11:1 a temple is measured. In Revelation 11;19 the temple of God "in heaven is opened". Then in Revelation 12:1 and Rev.12:3 the vision/sign seen is "in heaven". The woman is the temple of God in Revelation 11:19. In Revelation 12:11 and 12:17 the woman believes in Jesus and has his testimony (not unbelievers). In Revelation 12:17 it ends with, "...on the sands of the sea..." (it goes with ch.13),,,(Rev. 11:19 is the beginning of Rev.12 ect.).

So based on what you have said above, if the temple of God is the woman, then the temple would be giving birth to a male child which Satan would be waiting to kill.

If the woman was the temple, then the temple of God would be fleeing out into the desert and would be cared for during the last 3 1/2 years.

Satan sending a flood/army after the woman would mean that he would be sending an army after the temple which is fleeing?

If the woman was the temple, God would be giving the temple two wings of a great eagle, so that the temple might fly to the place prepared for it in the wilderness

When you consider the rest of the context, you can see how ridiculous this is. You are just badly misapplying scripture here.

The temple in Rev.11:1 is speaking of the future earthly temple, not God's temple in heaven where the Ark of His covenant is. You're mixing temples here.

Future earthly temple:
"I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles.

God's temple in heaven:
Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant

Two different temples.

 

[Ahwatukee]

All believers are clothed with the righteousness of Christ - the Sun.
Why do you think Christ being he woman's covering is a misapplication of scripture?

Also, the woman does not represent the church. The church is never mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath.

 

[KJV1611]

I already told you in the previous post that Jerusalem is not the harlot of Rev.17. They are figuratively two different woman. Why do you always go after the obscure and vague?

I've never said anything about Rev 17. Below are the two women that the woman of Rev 12 can be.

1. Earthly Jerusalem - bondage.
2. Heavenly Jerusalem - freedom.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

You have no explanation for what the clothing represents, nor what the moon under her feet represents, nor what the crown represents. Nope, the sun moon and stars in the verse so that means the woman is Israel.

 

[KJV1611]

The woman/Israel will believe sometime during the last 3 1/2 years, while the sealing of the 144,000 takes place towards the beginning of the first 3 1/2 years

Why are the 144,000 sealed?

 

[iamsoandso]

So based on what you have said above, if the temple of God is the woman, then the temple would be giving birth to a male child which Satan would be waiting to kill.

If the woman was the temple, then the temple of God would be fleeing out into the desert and would be cared for during the last 3 1/2 years.

Satan sending a flood/army after the woman would mean that he would be sending an army after the temple which is fleeing?

If the woman was the temple, God would be giving the temple two wings of a great eagle, so that the temple might fly to the place prepared for it in the wilderness

When you consider the rest of the context, you can see how ridiculous this is. You are just badly misapplying scripture here.

The temple in Rev.11:1 is speaking of the future earthly temple, not God's temple in heaven where the Ark of His covenant is. You're mixing temples here.

Future earthly temple:
"I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles.

God's temple in heaven:
Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant

Two different temples.

1 Corinthians 3:16,,1 Corinthians 6:19 I am the temple of the Holy Spirit that you are attempting to replace with another. Revelation 13:6...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1 Corinthians 3:16,,1 Corinthians 6:19 I am the temple of the Holy Spirit that you are attempting to replace with another. Revelation 13:6...

Where Scripture is referring to US ("the Church which is His body" as "temple"), there is no definite article ("the") associated with it:

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/3-16.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/6-19.htm



Beside that, we ("the Church which is His body") will not be present on the earth at the same time that Rev13:6 is taking place... (nor when 2Th2:4 and Rev11:2 refer to, which both do use the definite article [and note that in Rev11:2, the "and them that worship THEREIN" is distinct FROM it])

 

[KJV1611]

Also, the woman does not represent the church. The church is never mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath.

The woman of Rev 12 has nothing to do with God's wrath.... totally unrelated.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I've never said anything about Rev 17. Below are the two women that the woman of Rev 12 can be.

1. Earthly Jerusalem - bondage.
2. Heavenly Jerusalem - freedom.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

You have no explanation for what the clothing represents, nor what the moon under her feet represents, nor what the crown represents. Nope, the sun moon and stars in the verse so that means the woman is Israel.

Yes, I do. I told you and gave the scripture which reveals the literal meaning behind the sun, moon and stars as representing Israel as a whole, but you didn't believe it. There is nothing I can do about that. It is not the woman's clothing that is the issue, but what the clothing consists of which is the sun (Jacob), with the moon under her feet (Jacob's wives) and wearing a crown of twelve starts (the twelve tribes of Israel).

The woman represents Israel

 

[KJV1611]

Where Scripture is referring to US ("the Church which is His body" as "temple"), there is no definite article ("the") associated with it:

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/3-16.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/6-19.htm



Beside that, we ("the Church which is His body") will not be present on the earth at the same time that Rev13:6 is taking place... (nor when 2Th2:4 and Rev11:2 refer to, which both do use the definite article [and note that "and they which worship THEREIN" is distinct FROM it])

If 1 Corinthians 3:16 isn't saying that we are the temple of God then what is it saying?

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Why are the 144,000 sealed?

The scripture doesn't tell the reader why they are sealed, only that they are the servants of God, a 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel. They are a select group out of Israel that God has taken for himself. These are those who will have not defiled themselves with women and no lie was found in their mouths.

There being sealed keeps them from being tormented by the stings of those demonic locusts:

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads."

The above would make the 144,000 exempt and that because they will be the only ones sealed.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The woman of Rev 12 has nothing to do with God's wrath.... totally unrelated.

Since the woman is Israel, that last 3 1/2 years is the time of Jacob's trouble, which is why they will be fleeing out of Judea into the desert and which is initiated by the setting up of the abomination in the temple.

At first the antichrist will make his covenant with Israel and they will be making sacrifices and offerings during the first 3 1/2 years. In the middle of the seven years the antichrist will cause the offerings and the sacrifices to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple, which causes the fleeing (desolation) of Israel.

This will be the time of God's vengeance upon Israel and all who are on the earth.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If 1 Corinthians 3:16 isn't saying that we are the temple of God then what is it saying?

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

It's simply saying "temple of God" (no definite article in the Greek; not "the temple of God" in these verses, in the Greek), as shown in the info at links I provided

 

[Scribe]

At the moment of resurrection - during the change from old mortal body to new glorified body - the old body [literally] dies. I believe this is sufficient for the requirement...

In other words, those who go through "the change" alive - still - technically - die.

I show you a mystery. WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP. The change in the twinkling of an eye from mortal to immortal is not at all TECHNICALLY dying. It is technically CHANGING. The twinkling of an eye is too fast for the physical changes that define dying even at the cellular level, brain activity, blood flow, lack of oxygen, none of these TECHNICAL changes have time to occur. So your point is invalid and you loose this one.

 

[KJV1611]

Yes, I do. I told you and gave the scripture which reveals the literal meaning behind the sun, moon and stars as representing Israel as a whole, but you didn't believe it. There is nothing I can do about that. It is not the woman's clothing that is the issue, but what the clothing consists of which is the sun (Jacob), with the moon under her feet (Jacob's wives) and wearing a crown of twelve starts (the twelve tribes of Israel).

The woman represents Israel

Here's the lunacy of your argument and you can't even see it.

You say that the woman is Israel and she's clothed with the sun.... which you say also represents Israel.

How can the woman be Israel and the clothing be Israel? Do you see my point.

The verse mentioned the sun moon and stars so it must be Israel. If that's how you think symbolism works in the bible then you are waaaaaay off.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I show you a mystery. WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP. The change in the twinkling of an eye from mortal to immortal is not at all TECHNICALLY dying. It is technically CHANGING. The twinkling of an eye is too fast for the physical changes that define dying even at the cellular level, brain activity, blood flow, lack of oxygen, none of these TECHNICAL changes have time to occur. So your point is invalid and you loose this one.

Correct.

That, plus the wording of "CLOTHED UPON" is this same idea. No "bodily death" at the point in time this passage is referring to (2Cor5:2-4)!

 

[KJV1611]

Since the woman is Israel, that last 3 1/2 years is the time of Jacob's trouble, which is why they will be fleeing out of Judea into the desert and which is initiated by the setting up of the abomination in the temple.

At first the antichrist will make his covenant with Israel and they will be making sacrifices and offerings during the first 3 1/2 years. In the middle of the seven years the antichrist will cause the offerings and the sacrifices to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple, which causes the fleeing (desolation) of Israel.

This will be the time of God's vengeance upon Israel and all who are on the earth.

This is so far removed from the truth that I'm not going to comment on it.

 

[KJV1611]

It's simply saying "temple of God" (no definite article in the Greek; not "the temple of God" in these verses, in the Greek), as shown in the info at links I provided

Are believers the temple of God or no?

 

[Ahwatukee]

At the moment of resurrection - during the change from old mortal body to new glorified body - the old body [literally] dies. I believe this is sufficient for the requirement...

In other words, those who go through "the change" alive - still - technically - die.

That is not correct Gary. The fact that the scriptures states that "we shall not all sleep," i.e. we shall not all be dead, demonstrates that those in Christ who are alive at the time of the resurrection are simply changed immortal and glorified. We don't take part in the resurrection which has to do with the dead, because we are still alive.

We're just changed from mortal to immortal in an atomos (a period of time too short to divide).

 

[Ahwatukee]

Here's the lunacy of your argument and you can't even see it.

You say that the woman is Israel and she's clothed with the sun.... which you say also represents Israel.

How can the woman be Israel and the clothing be Israel? Do you see my point.

The verse mentioned the sun moon and stars so it must be Israel. If that's how you think symbolism works in the bible then you are waaaaaay off.

KJV, I am just amazed that you are having such a hard time understanding this concept.

Since the sun, moon and stars represent Israel as a whole, then the woman being clothed with the same symbols is representing Israel.

It is the combination of those symbols that identify the woman as Israel

Sun (Jacob), Moon (wives), stars (Jacob's son's) = All together they represent the nation Israel

Woman clothed with the sun (Jacob), with the moon under her feet(wives) and a crown of twelve stars (Jacob's son's) = All of the woman's symbols together represent the nation Israel.