Not By Works
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[QUOTE="dcontroversal, post: 3994898, member: 183444"
John 3 is referencing being born of a WOMAN and then BORN AGAIN from above SPIRITUALLY..........[/QUOTE] Born again means to be born two times the first time you are born in a woman's womb so how is it that you believe being Born again by water is in a woman's womb?
John 3 is referencing being born of a WOMAN and then BORN AGAIN from above SPIRITUALLY..........[/QUOTE] Born again means to be born two times the first time you are born in a woman's womb so how is it that you believe being Born again by water is in a woman's womb?
Go Back a few pages and read for yourself, would be better. I believe in OSAS. No that alright, but you should know that I presented a great deal that supports Once Saved Always Saved, she said: "ones you call "never were saved" and I call them "those who have lost their salvation". The Post were some of my evidence for OSAS, was #105,039 . But their is a LOT MORE, in earlier posts.
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Hi fred,
Let me say simply, until the two points of view are put forward you cannot see the difference.
The proposition is a sinner can believe Jesus and go from death to life.
The problem is scripture puts forward repentance is the only way, with walking in obedience to Jesus.
To me the absurd notion is those in sin and rebellion against Jesus will inherit the Kingdom.
But easy believism claims Jesus will compromise righteousness and justice because of this verse.
I can say planes can fly with aviation fuel. Now someone could say flying is traveling fast and not
supporting your weight by the wings. But flight is defined as the whole weight of the aircraft is
held by the wings with air giving lift to them.
What is obviously hopeful belief is if just one verse suggests compromise it is taken full on.
The problem comes from words like freedom from the law, no longer bound to its condemnation.
One can interpret this as the moral principles are fullfilled by Jesus and not by us.
But in truth it is love in our hearts that fulfills the law, not the ceremonial law of Moses, but the
moral law of Christ, because we no longer break its rules because our hearts have been changed or
are in the process of change ( sanctification / transformation ). And if one keeps a hard heart and
do not allow Him in, ofcourse one fails. I have met many examples of this belief system, where if
I touch their hearts, I am thrown out and attacked as if the heart is not something Christ addresses.
Now I know this is not a simple proposition or even accepted necessarily. But I now see why I have
had so many issues and problems in my life and in the theology held by many. Purity is the key,
and addressing how love and forgiveness applies to our hearts. God bless you
Let me say simply, until the two points of view are put forward you cannot see the difference.
The proposition is a sinner can believe Jesus and go from death to life.
The problem is scripture puts forward repentance is the only way, with walking in obedience to Jesus.
To me the absurd notion is those in sin and rebellion against Jesus will inherit the Kingdom.
But easy believism claims Jesus will compromise righteousness and justice because of this verse.
I can say planes can fly with aviation fuel. Now someone could say flying is traveling fast and not
supporting your weight by the wings. But flight is defined as the whole weight of the aircraft is
held by the wings with air giving lift to them.
What is obviously hopeful belief is if just one verse suggests compromise it is taken full on.
The problem comes from words like freedom from the law, no longer bound to its condemnation.
One can interpret this as the moral principles are fullfilled by Jesus and not by us.
But in truth it is love in our hearts that fulfills the law, not the ceremonial law of Moses, but the
moral law of Christ, because we no longer break its rules because our hearts have been changed or
are in the process of change ( sanctification / transformation ). And if one keeps a hard heart and
do not allow Him in, ofcourse one fails. I have met many examples of this belief system, where if
I touch their hearts, I am thrown out and attacked as if the heart is not something Christ addresses.
Now I know this is not a simple proposition or even accepted necessarily. But I now see why I have
had so many issues and problems in my life and in the theology held by many. Purity is the key,
and addressing how love and forgiveness applies to our hearts. God bless you
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Strange as it seems a free gift can also have qualification criteria.
Words like worthy, cost, work, reward, all point towards qualification.
To accept the parable of the seed and the sower, nothing grows unless the soil is good and the roots go deep.
So the free gift of the seed is real, but its effect and reaction effect the final result.
If one denies this, you end up in universalism, where sinners by faith enter heaven.
But no sinner will ever enter heaven.
27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 21
Put simply sinners will be thrown out into the lake of fire. God bless you
Words like worthy, cost, work, reward, all point towards qualification.
To accept the parable of the seed and the sower, nothing grows unless the soil is good and the roots go deep.
So the free gift of the seed is real, but its effect and reaction effect the final result.
If one denies this, you end up in universalism, where sinners by faith enter heaven.
But no sinner will ever enter heaven.
27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 21
Put simply sinners will be thrown out into the lake of fire. God bless you
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See I'm so veh backwards, minus the e,... interesting name.
Have you ever read "Matthew:A Rabbinic Source Commentary And Language Bible"?
Oy vey!
Or have you knowledge of the first century schools of Hillel and Shammai?
Perhaps you have knowledge of some of the Jewish proverbial sentences?
Hillel...
"Do not judge your neighbor (says he) until you comest in to his place".
More Jewish proverbial sentences...
"He that judgeth his neighbour according to the balance of righteousness, or innocence, they judge him according to righteousness.''
And a little after,
"As ye have judged me according to the balance of righteousness, God will judge you according to the balance of righteousness.''
"Judge every man according to the balance of righteousness.''
Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
With the measure of judgement we judge others, the same measure of judgement is applied back to us by God and man.
They say...
"middah keneged middah" or measure for measure.
Simplified,
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Have you ever read "Matthew:A Rabbinic Source Commentary And Language Bible"?
Oy vey!
Or have you knowledge of the first century schools of Hillel and Shammai?
Perhaps you have knowledge of some of the Jewish proverbial sentences?
Hillel...
"Do not judge your neighbor (says he) until you comest in to his place".
More Jewish proverbial sentences...
"He that judgeth his neighbour according to the balance of righteousness, or innocence, they judge him according to righteousness.''
And a little after,
"As ye have judged me according to the balance of righteousness, God will judge you according to the balance of righteousness.''
"Judge every man according to the balance of righteousness.''
Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
With the measure of judgement we judge others, the same measure of judgement is applied back to us by God and man.
They say...
"middah keneged middah" or measure for measure.
Simplified,
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
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1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
If we say we are born of God and commit sin we deceive ourselves for it is written
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.