Not By Works

[Eli12]

Its the truth, As written.

Just not the way you are seeing it. Your ignoring context. Context is the great tribulation. Not eternal life for all people in all times.

I don't think so. My cites are clear enough and not further interpretation is needed ... You cann't try to force the Scriptures saying they must adjust to your way of seing things; at the contrary: you must check if Scriptures support what you were thinking about that matter.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

That theory the Devil will like. Then he can smuggle in the any FALSE DOCTRINE HE WANTS and get it Preached from the Pulpits.

Look how Paul dealt with FALSE DOCTRINE:

Acts 20:28-31 (NRSV)
28 Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
29 I know that after I have gone, savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Some even from your own group will come distorting the truth in order to entice the disciples to follow them.
31 Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to warn everyone with tears.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (NASB)
18 This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,
19 keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

Matthew 7:15-16 (HCSB)
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

Matthew 10:16-19 (NASB)
16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
17 "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues;
18 and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.
19 "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say.

Jude 1:3-4 (HCSB)
3 Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write and exhort you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.
4 For some men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying Jesus Christ, our only Master and Lord.


So, are we to LISTEN TO THE SCRIPTURES, or listen to your Liberal Teachings ? ? ?

What amuses me about VCO is he thinks native indians could be saved because of their own faith.
It somewhat puts into focus where his position actually is.

But then grandstanding is really what all these long quotes are about......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think so. My cites are clear enough and not further interpretation is needed ... You cann't try to force the Scriptures saying they must adjust to your way of seing things; at the contrary: you must check is Scriptures support what you were thinking about that matter.

I am not forcing the scripture to say anything you are.

Matt 24 is about end times, and the great tribulation. Your taking one small portaion out of context and trying to make a doctrine out of it.

 

[Eli12]

I am not forcing the scripture to say anything you are.

Matt 24 is about end times, and the great tribulation. Your taking one small portaion out of context and trying to make a doctrine out of it.

I cited 10 passages: what Jesus said, what Paul and Peter said, what happened to David and how he saw it, about the crown of life, ... It is everything about the same: salvation is reached at the end of the christian race, not a price someone gets at a moment before that. Check again, please. About Jesus' words, he used the expression: "will be saved" ... Is it not clear enough to you that he is talking about salvation?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I don't think so. My cites are clear enough and not further interpretation is needed ... You cann't try to force the Scriptures saying they must adjust to your way of seing things; at the contrary: you must check if Scriptures support what you were thinking about that matter.

Trouble with EG and his group, they have such a narrow interpretative framework only one meaning
can be true. And if you disagree you are evil.

The idea of relationship revelation with Christ has gone, because if the truth of where we are before
God and our walk matters, they are lost. What I mean is their whole faith is founded on it does not
matter how they behave, God has accepted them. It all breaks if this fails at any point.

It is literally a house of cards, a green house of glass where one failure the whole thing falls to the
floor along with everything attached.

The great thing about knowing Jesus loves us, everything is founded in His actions not our understanding
of individual verses or historical contexts. Our understanding of these can change, but our love stays
strong and how love works out through every aspect of our lives. Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I cited 10 passages: what Jesus said, what Paul and Peter said, what happened to David and how he saw it, and others. It is everything about the same: salvation is reached at the end of the christian race, not a price someone gets at a moment before that. Check again, please. About Jesus' words, he used the expression: "will be saved" ... Is it not clear enogh to you that he is talking about salvation?

I am just talking about one passage, lets do one at a time ok.

Endure to the end is NOT talking about eternal salvation. You are WRONG in your interpretation of that passage. It is about the great tribulation. And God giving people THEN hope. That if they endure to the end, They will be spared when Jesus returns.

 

[VCO]

But Salvation comes BEFORE the works. Salvation comes at baptism. So we are already promised it. The works are coming AFTER, so they can't be working on something already given in the past.

If you me Christian Water Baptism, you are dead wrong.

HERE IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES the moment the HOLY SPIRIT COMES IN:

1 Corinthians 12:13-14 (NKJV)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.


WE were all IMMERSED into the ONE SPIRITUAL BODY, of JESUS CHRIST; even the Thief on the Cross was Immersed into that BODY.

 

[Eli12]

I am just talking about one passage, lets do one at a time ok.

Endure to the end is NOT talking about eternal salvation. You are WRONG in your interpretation of that passage. It is about the great tribulation. And God giving people THEN hope. That if they endure to the end, They will be spared when Jesus returns.

You are saying Jesus was wrong, not me. His words are clear enough, but you are trying to give a different interpretation.

Tell me something, please:

what would have happened if Jesus had failed in the temptations that the Devil submitted to him?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are saying Jesus was wrong, not me. His words are clear enough, but you are trying to give a different interpretation.

Tell me something, please:

what would have happened if Jesus had failed in the temptations that the Devil submitted to him?

Really?

Matt 24: 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


This is talking about the end, the great tribulation.

Jesus is not wrong YOU ARE WRONG in your interpretation of what he said.

Eternal salvation is NOT IN CONTXT IN JESUS WORDS.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

It is also a gift because we do not contribute to in any way.

So this gift, what is it actually?
Is it something like a swimming pool, its part of where you live, you use it as necessary,
or is it more fundamental?

What’s the matter pookie? Why are you so snarky? Is it because you’re upset that God is gracious?

I did not expect this response, to be honest, that salvation is a swimming pool in the back garden.
Not surprising that the aspiring executive has one to add to his wife, kids, house, pension, holidays.

Unfortunately I know what happens to these setups and it is not pleasant.
But then if Jesus, His word and following mean this little, I am not here to do the work of God,
I just pray that God might have mercy on your soul, God bless you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children
2 and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5

 

[Eli12]

Not EG. Jesus is talking about the one and only salvation that every christian is waiting for (some believe they already got it, though) ... and Jesus is not wrong

Luk 13:23 And someone said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, open to us,' then he will answer you, 'I do not know where you come from.'
26 Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.'
27 But he will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!'

The great tribulation is the anteroom of the salvation; that's why he mentioned both events together. It is you who is trying to separate them.

 

[BillG]

I don't think so. My cites are clear enough and not further interpretation is needed ... You cann't try to force the Scriptures saying they must adjust to your way of seing things; at the contrary: you must check if Scriptures support what you were thinking about that matter.

He does check scripture to support his view just like you do.
As well you can't try to force scripture to say what you do as you accuse EG of doing.

He is just as learned as you say you are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not EG. Jesus is talking about the one and only salvation that every christian is waiting for (some believe they already got it, though) ... and Jesus is not wrong

Luk 13:23 And someone said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, open to us,' then he will answer you, 'I do not know where you come from.'
26 Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.'
27 But he will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!'

The great tribulation is the anteroom of the salvation; that's why he mentioned both events together. It is you who is trying to separate them.

Dude, I gave you the passage in question. At no time in that passage was jesus talking about eternal life.

If you can not be honest and look at the passage, we can have no discussion.

 

[Eli12]

EG, Jesus is talking about SALVATION ... I don't need the expression "eternal life" to understand what SALVATION means, do you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, Jesus is talking about SALVATION ... I don't need the expression "eternal life" to understand what SALVATION means, do you?

No he is not For one he does not contradict himself. John 6 is about eternal life and salvation. And if jesus is talking about eternal salvation in matt 24 He totally contradicts himself in John 6.

He is talking about being persecuted to the point of death, And he is giving them the courage to continue on in this time, and if they do and endure, their PHYSICAL LIVES WILL BE SAVED,

 

[DeighAnn]

That theory the Devil will like. Then he can smuggle in the any FALSE DOCTRINE HE WANTS and get it Preached from the Pulpits.

Look how Paul dealt with FALSE DOCTRINE:

Acts 20:28-31 (NRSV)
28 Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
29 I know that after I have gone, savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Some even from your own group will come distorting the truth in order to entice the disciples to follow them.
31 Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to warn everyone with tears.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (NASB)
18 This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,
19 keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

Matthew 7:15-16 (HCSB)
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

Matthew 10:16-19 (NASB)
16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
17 "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues;
18 and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.
19 "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say.

Jude 1:3-4 (HCSB)
3 Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write and exhort you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.
4 For some men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying Jesus Christ, our only Master and Lord.


So, are we to LISTEN TO THE SCRIPTURES, or listen to your Liberal Teachings ? ? ?

That is a lot of doctrine on how to watch out for false doctrine, but no doctrine on how his doctrine is false.

 

[Eli12]

EG, read the passage again, you are going beyond what it says:

Mat 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

[VCO]

AMEN.............have you noticed the plethora of scripture that gets rejected, denied, twisted, skewed or just flat stomped on by those that peddle a losable salvation that must be maintained by man...even the definitions of words are just simply swept aside like the Japanese Zeros at the great Mariannas Turkey Shoot in WW2.......

It is impossible to engage some of these people when the very definitions of words are just flat ignored.......

I like your analogy of the Mariannas Turkey Shoot. Watch the Copilot without his seat belt on, or maybe the enemy Pilot found himself hung up on the wing. LOL

Suprised it took ya so long

 

[dcontroversal]

Really?

Matt 24: 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


This is talking about the end, the great tribulation.

Jesus is not wrong YOU ARE WRONG in your interpretation of what he said.

Eternal salvation is NOT IN CONTXT IN JESUS WORDS.

It is impossible to engage some of these people.....when they view the bible through a lens of deception they will see nothing but deception........the forest because of the trees syndrome..................!!