Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

It IS, a "lack of discernment" that breeds "confusion." That leads to a "breaking down" of the "government" on the shoulder of Jesus Christ. Or, that Jesus Christ "bares" on His shoulder/s. Of which, "limits" the "lateral movements" of GOD into and out of His Son. Just as it limits the lateral movements of GOD into and out of the "GIFT" of His Holy Spirit. And, likewise for the Son's lateral movements into and out of the Father, as well as into and out of the gift of the Holy Spirit. As well as the lateral movements of the gift of the Holy Spirit's lateral movements, into and out of the Son, as well, as the Father. It would seem this is done to deliberately cause confusion, and contention within, or even between believers.
And, as can be witnessed here in the BDF.
That contention between Saved believers, contending with those seeking inheritance. Which are viewed by the saved ones as a "works" salvation. But, it isn't! Works for inheriting the Kingdom of God YIELDS eternal life. Goes above and beyond "everlasting" life. For THIS "everlasting" SHALL end, at the 7th trump. Eternal life? NEVER ends!

Good Morning and Greetings NayborBear,

Would you say that the Matthew account of The Rich Young Ruler is germane to what you are speaking about?

Mat 19:16-30 NIV Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" (17) "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." (18) "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, (19) honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'" (20) "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" (21) Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (22) When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. (23) Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. (24) Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (25) When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" (26) Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (27) Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?" (28) Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (29) And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. (30) But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Where Jesus was saying; "If you would be perfect" was He clarifying to the rich young man; you have secured your place in the "Kingdom of Heaven" but if you wish to attain to the "Kingdom of God" Here's the next step?

His disciples saw how many, or few others had "left all" to follow Jesus. One brother mentioned once how Jesus Himself would have been disciplined or kicked off most missionary posts for "inadequate results" when you look at how many He had at the end of His earthly ministry. So, it must have been devastating to consider the "smallness" of the "little flock" Luke 12:32 Perhaps two different callings?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(Note to everyone, the quote referred to above is my words only in the first few lines. The rest are DeighAnn's.)


I say that Christians should follow the law of God that the spirit has written on their heart. I don't think that's the same as the law that Moses wrote down in the wilderness.

If I had to put it back into letters, the law that the spirit wrote on my heart is closest to this
Matthew 7: 12. Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

I don't understand what you mean by follow the letter of the law through the spirit, if that's what you're saying. One is following the letter of the law, or one is not. If one is following a modified version of the letter of the law, then one is not following the letter of the law.

They do not understand one can follow the letter, and still be in sin.

The law as given to expose sin, to lead us to christ, NOT to make us righteous spirit filled morally upright people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

look, this is not a " safe space". if you choose to post here, expect criticism .

it seems as if you are saying that the Law is no longer in effect, but we should still be keeping to be proper believers.

if that is not the case, my apology .

but, maybe you could clarify what you are saying.

Your not the only one who sees this bro.. Many good people see this same thing..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so, I was apparently correct about what I said earlier, to which you chastised me for saying.

are you going to chastise yourself about, in a very wordy, way, about what you said here??

I mean, in a take the plank out of your own eye type thing??

She thinks is a keepr of the law

Yet according to scripture. She is also guilty of the law. (If one keeps the whole law yet stumble in one point, they are guilty of the whole law)

I don’t get how she can THINK she is a keeper of the law, why do they refuse to acknowledge the requirement of the law?

They water the law down then judge us

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.
Galatians 5:22‭-‬26 NASB

Those fruits seem to be at the core of what He meant by the 2 laws of love that sum up the whole law and the prophets.

On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Matthew 22:40 NASB

I think if we want to Honor God in all that we do and don't do, in our actions, thoughts, and words, we will want to obey those laws that He died to put in hearts.

I think it should break our hearts knowing we grieve and quench the spirit. Not saying here in this thread but when we do not walk in justice, nor love mercy, and negate to walk humbly with Him.

He is so patient and merciful.

I agree it should break our hearts. If we are not convicted something is wrong,

I hope the topic is what we do to obey, What causes our obedience.. Self will by following ga letter. Or the will of love by learning the frutis. Or seeking out the things of the spirit.

 

[Marcelo]

So basically. As I said. You are offering God your water which is tainted by urine (sin).

You claim to teach salvation by grace, but in reality you teach salvation by works. (In case you try to say, Scripture is clear, if it is grace it is not of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace)

AllI can say is good luck trying to earn your salvation. I just pray you realize, You will fail. Before its too late.

Ps. Salvation is by grace through faith (in God)

Not by mere belief,,

True faith works, so whoever is truly saved will work.

The fact is, if that person sleeping with abother woman can not get to heaven, Neither can any other sinner. Instead of worrying about whoever is commiting whatever type of sin yu think is real bad. Realise ALL sin (no matter how small) is that bad in Gods eyes. There are no such things as minor sins. The penalty of sin is death THE GiFT of God is eternal life.

Do you believe adulterers, fornicators, liars and thieves can be counted as holy? Remember that without holiness no one will see God.

 

[DeighAnn]

all right, here is my reply.

1. gentiles were nor are now under the Law of Moses.


2. there are plenty instructional Scripture in the N. T. why are those not sufficient ?

3. Law/ Sabbath keeping have nothing to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

4. Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath, the double Sabbath conspiracy theory is a Judeaizer lie.

Here is my reply

1. There is no more distinction, grafted in same root, time to learn the Word.
2. Yep, you are going to make it, may not be sufficient but kick axx on NOTHING.
3. Nope, they have nothing to do with salvation, the first baby step taken on a long journey toward perfection. Progress. Once you have taken that step though you don't stop.
4. Jesus became our Passover, O Death where is thy sting

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you believe adulterers, fornicators, liars and thieves can be counted as holy? Remember that without holiness no one will see God.

I believe no one who commits 1 sin. No matter how small that sin is can be counted as holy that’s what Moses insinuated and James outright said. Break one command your guilty of the law

You like many look to these huge sins forgetting your small sin is just as damning as their big sins

The penalty of sin is death

I believe as Paul said. Those people will not. But he also said the Corinthian church were no longer considered those people why? Because they stopped those sins? No we know if we continue reading that many did not stop. They were no longer considered those people because they were washed and justified by Christ.

Salvation is being made clean. Not being made perfect we will not hit that perfection until
Our best life

 

[DeighAnn]

Do you believe adulterers, fornicators, liars and thieves can be counted as holy? Remember that without holiness no one will see God.

We are not to judge. That said, do you believe they are "truly" saved in the first place?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do people realize that every time you chose to serve self. And not serve others or God in prety much every instance, you are breaking the first command.

If this is true (and it is) then what makes you think your better than an andulterer? A fornicator? A thief, and a liar?

You ALL have failed to keep Gods law. And as such, all are not under the curse of the law.

So why do people keep focusin on certain sins, as to say, “Well I do not do those sins thay shal not inherit the kingdom. But I will because I am not them” when in reality, you and I are just as guilty as they are whether we commit those sins or not.

And also. As jesus said on the sermon, we can keep the letter. Yet still fail to keep the command. Because the letter just says do not do it, It does not say every circumstance which would be considered breaking it. (Which is why it is useless in helping us become spiritually mature morally upright citizens of God.

 

[gb9]

Do people realize that every time you chose to serve self. And not serve others or God in prety much every instance, you are breaking the first command.

If this is true (and it is) then what makes you think your better than an andulterer? A fornicator? A thief, and a liar?

You ALL have failed to keep Gods law. And as such, all are not under the curse of the law.

So why do people keep focusin on certain sins, as to say, “Well I do not do those sins thay shal not inherit the kingdom. But I will because I am not them” when in reality, you and I are just as guilty as they are whether we commit those sins or not.

And also. As jesus said on the sermon, we can keep the letter. Yet still fail to keep the command. Because the letter just says do not do it, It does not say every circumstance which would be considered breaking it. (Which is why it is useless in helping us become spiritually mature morally upright citizens of God.

to me, here is a key to their thinking- they define sin as " breaking the Law' .

and yes, it is. but it goes much, much deeper, sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

when you use the proper definition of sin, it changes how you view everything, and you will see that your only hope is faith and trust in a Risen Savior.

the modern judeaizers do the same mind trick on themselves that the Biblical Jews did when they were brought back after the exile .

they reasoned that since they were exiled because they broke the Law, they would make triple sure they kept it.

so, by the time that Christ came, they had overlaid 613 more rules ( the traditions of the elders ) on top of the Torah, and in the Gospels we see what a mess it was.

just as we see what a self-contradicting mess the judeaizer theology is. too bad they can't.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to me, here is a key to their thinking- they define sin as " breaking the Law' .

and yes, it is. but it goes much, much deeper, sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

when you use the proper definition of sin, it changes how you view everything, and you will see that your only hope is faith and trust in a Risen Savior.

the modern judeaizers do the same mind trick on themselves that the Biblical Jews did when they were brought back after the exile .

they reasoned that since they were exiled because they broke the Law, they would make triple sure they kept it.

so, by the time that Christ came, they had overlaid 613 more rules ( the traditions of the elders ) on top of the Torah, and in the Gospels we see what a mess it was.

just as we see what a self-contradicting mess the judeaizer theology is. too bad they can't.

Religion kills our faith and makes it no faith at all

 

[SimpleGardner]

Do you believe adulterers, fornicators, liars and thieves can be counted as holy? Remember that without holiness no one will see God.

Wouldn't you agree that "purity of heart intent" determines if one will "see God"?

Is it possible for a man to cling to Grace and not move on to a walk where through the anointing of the Holy Spirit he receives "purity of heart"? Is this purity of Heart the same as the "wellsprings of living water"?

Would it be a fair description that having pure motives, founded in love for God and neighbor, absent of self serving intent that makes sinning essentially an impossibility?

Could it be said that a man that keeps the Law perfectly without purity of heart is a sinner, while an man who sins with purity of heart is not (if it is an error) because he is blameless?

 

[DeighAnn]

to me, here is a key to their thinking- they define sin as " breaking the Law' .

and yes, it is. but it goes much, much deeper, sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

1. missing the mark = transgression of the law
2. falling short of a standard = transgression of the law
3. knowing to do good and not doing so = transgression of the law

only hope is faith and trust in a Risen Savior.

Basic and first principles of becoming a Christian

the modern judeaizers do the same mind trick on themselves that the Biblical Jews did when they were brought back after the exile .

Do you follow Gods law and do you teach others to do so?

they reasoned that since they were exiled because they broke the Law, they would make triple sure they kept it.

Is Gods law still in place? Has Gods law changed besides it used to be break one all and you die to break one now and repent and be forgiven? Do you believe in repenting for your sins as expressed in the prayer Jesus told us to pray?

Could it be said that a man that keeps the Law perfectly without purity of heart is a sinner, while an man who sins with purity of heart is not (if it is an error) because he is blameless?

A man CAN NOT keep the Law perfectly, if he could Jesus would not have had to suffer on the cross for us, so the first part of the question can not be answered and all men are sinners, and "a man who sins with purity of heart? What does that mean? "is not if it is an error because he is blameless??

I hope it does not seem like I am picking on your statements because I am still hurt or mad, because I am no longer hurt or mad, I am picking on your statements because I am having problems with what you are trying to say.

 

[DeighAnn]

Wouldn't you agree that "purity of heart intent" determines if one will "see God"?

Is it possible for a man to cling to Grace and not move on to a walk where through the anointing of the Holy Spirit he receives "purity of heart"? Is this purity of Heart the same as the "wellsprings of living water"?

Would it be a fair description that having pure motives, founded in love for God and neighbor, absent of self serving intent that makes sinning essentially an impossibility?

Could it be said that a man that keeps the Law perfectly without purity of heart is a sinner, while an man who sins with purity of heart is not (if it is an error) because he is blameless?

Are you sure you quoted the right post? If this is correct it would fit another one perfectly also.

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo said: Do you believe adulterers, fornicators, liars and thieves can be counted as holy? Remember that without holiness no one will see God.

We are not to judge. That said, do you believe they are "truly" saved in the first place?

You're right; we are not to judge (others), but we have to judge ourselves.

I believe that Paul received authority from the Lord Jesus to write the following:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're right; we are not to judge (others), but we have to judge ourselves.

I believe that Paul received authority from the Lord Jesus to write the following:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

You can not leave the part I bolded out. It does not say they stopped those sins it says they were washed and justified of those sins

Remember the urine added to water you can not purify the water god has to

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wouldn't you agree that "purity of heart intent" determines if one will "see God"?

Is it possible for a man to cling to Grace and not move on to a walk where through the anointing of the Holy Spirit he receives "purity of heart"? Is this purity of Heart the same as the "wellsprings of living water"?

Would it be a fair description that having pure motives, founded in love for God and neighbor, absent of self serving intent that makes sinning essentially an impossibility?

Could it be said that a man that keeps the Law perfectly without purity of heart is a sinner, while an man who sins with purity of heart is not (if it is an error) because he is blameless?

Can someone interpret this for me?

 

[DeighAnn]

You're right; we are not to judge (others), but we have to judge ourselves.

I believe that Paul received authority from the Lord Jesus to write the following:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

I don't believe when you have been captured by Christ, that any of those things are things you do, but more importantly you do not "want" to do. You find them offensive. I think the operative word here is "were".

quick question If sin is transgression of Gods law and you do not know Gods law, is it possible for you to sin?

 

[Marcelo]

Wouldn't you agree that "purity of heart intent" determines if one will "see God"?

Is it possible for a man to cling to Grace and not move on to a walk where through the anointing of the Holy Spirit he receives "purity of heart"? Is this purity of Heart the same as the "wellsprings of living water"?

Would it be a fair description that having pure motives, founded in love for God and neighbor, absent of self serving intent that makes sinning essentially an impossibility?

Could it be said that a man that keeps the Law perfectly without purity of heart is a sinner, while an man who sins with purity of heart is not (if it is an error) because he is blameless?

I agree a hundred percent if:

# Purity of heart intent is really pure, according to God's point of view;
# Grace is genuine;
# Pure motives are really pure;
# Love for God and neighbor is genuine.

As for the fourth paragraph I have doubts because a person who sins (I am referring to sins that lead to death) with "purity of heart" is probably being misguided or has never known the true Jesus.