Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[NayborBear]

it's the same here, as with the rich young ruler who came to Christ and called him 'good teacher' -- asking what he must "do" to inherit life.
Jesus tells him, 'no one is good but God' -- and he's supposed to put 2 + 2 and realize that he's not talking to a rabbi, but to God Himself in human flesh.
he does not make this connection, tho, during their conversation - so he does not have faith, and is instructed the same way anyone without faith is. remember in Exodus 16, the sabbath is first given in order to test the Israelites, whether they will obey the LORD or not - and they fail. some are still gathering more manna then they are supposed to, trying to keep it longer, etc. and so they come to Sinai and are given a covenant of law -- vis-a-vis, "line upon line, precept upon precept, so that they may go, and fall backward, be broken, and snared, and taken:" because He said to them, here is rest, but they would not hear ((re: Isaiah 28)).
they make a covenant with death, but it shall not stand.

yet can that rich young ruler be saved? Jesus tells him he lacks something, and gives him a command nowhere found in Torah - to sell everything and give it to the poor. Jesus is not giving him Torah: Torah is what this rich young man showed up with, boasting of, all the while knowing within himself that it was insufficient to grant life: and so he came to Christ, tho he did not know Who it was he spoke with.
the disciples see this and marvel, thinking who in the world can be saved? Jesus says, with man it is impossible ((blowing up the inheritance of life by keeping that ministration engraved on stones)) but with God, all things are possible.
all things.
including the possibility that this rich man went home and the truth dawned on him one day, and he believed. he did, after all, go away sad: and there is a great inference to be made from that fact - why was he sad?

Can we agree, PH, that there is "GOD" who "reigns" from "everlasting TO everlasting?" aka "The ANCIENT of DAYS", " the 7 Spirits of GOD"/The "INVISABLE GOD", "The GOD of ALL AGES", "GOD! Whom NO ONE KNOWS HIS Name, save HE, HIMSELF?" Can we agree on this?

Can we agree that this same GOD, by the power of HIS Word, stablished "points" For HIS GOOD PLEASURE, in HIS Eternal Kingdom, that are referred to as earth/heaven ages?

Can we agree that "by the POWER of HIS WORD", that during the course, of "one", aka this current earth/heaven age, HE would send a SAVIOR in flesh? This same Jesus of Nazareth? aka "The word, made flesh." Can we agree on this?

Can we agree that Melchizadek, was also a flesh man? That he, being a Priest of the Most High GOD! That he (how can I say) "FOUNDED" (BY GOD'S GOOD PLEASURE) this SAME NAMED "order of Melchizadek", To which this SAME Jesus of Nazareth, was "elevated" ABOVE his fellow (priests), to be SENT to be born of flesh, by this SAME "GOD of ALL AGES?" Can we agree on this?

And because of Jesus's OBEDIENCE per GOD'S instructions, after being baptised by John. God stated "THIS DAY!" "HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE!" This SAME Jesus of Nazareth! Can we agree on this?

Then, can we agree that the "spirit of TRUTH", mistakenly referred to as the "Spirit of God", and/or "the gift of the Holy Spirit", which leads us unto ALL TRUTH. Is "LIMITED" by the faith of the believer him/herself, into WHAT, and HOW MUCH TRUTH, it is ABLE to "guide" one UNTO? Can we agree on this?

Can we agree that due to one's "lack" of faith, that Jesus HAD to return TO the Father, so as the Father WOULD SEND "another comforter", (expressly) BECAUSE the "guiding" of one unto ALL TRUTH, can be pretty "deceiving/seducing", UNTIL (a) PROPER DISCIPLINE is learned? Can we agree on this?

Can we then agree, that "limited TRUTH", is/are the reason/s why Jesus would say: "if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not."

I WANT you to agree with me, that I, am not Christ! Nope! Not am! Don't WANNA be! NOT GONNA be!
Nor, am I God! Don't WANNA be! NOT GONNA BE!
I am QUITE content on GOD being GOD! And, as EQUALLY content on Christ being the "ONLY WAY" TO the Father! Of which I TRULY believe, and confess!

Just testifying to the"sadness" I see in how many believers sell themselves so short, when it comes to that which transpires after one is "confessed" by Jesus, TO the Father!

 

[dcontroversal]

Unkind?

You continually refusing to answer questions is Kind?

Once again, You need to look in the mirror my friend..

And again, Can you show us a post where someone said that?

Or once again are you going to show you keep making accusations against people. But have no proof to back your claims?

These same jokers that are mouthing you would have been mouthing JESUS or John had they lived in the 1st Century A.D..........the tragic truth.....if these workers for, lawyers, Pharisees and salvation losers cannot handle a little heat from an unknown face on a website, imagine what happens when the crap really hits the fan for so called believers....oh say like the Great Tribulation.....they will fold like a poker player holding a pair of deuces in 7 card stud faster than one can buy a coke from a vending machine.....

NO WONDER the apo-hystamie comes with the MAN of SIN being revealed (2nd Thessalonians 2)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

These same jokers that are mouthing you would have been mouthing JESUS or John had they lived in the 1st Century A.D..........the tragic truth.....if these workers for, lawyers, Pharisees and salvation losers cannot handle a little heat from an unknown face on a website, imagine what happens when the crap really hits the fan for so called believers....oh say like the Great Tribulation.....they will fold like a poker player holding a pair of deuces in 7 card stud faster than one can buy a coke from a vending machine.....

NO WONDER the apo-hystamie comes with the MAN of SIN being revealed (2nd Thessalonians 2)

He can not answer any of my questions so he has to attack.

If he is going to make accusations like he keeps doing, he better be willing to back those accusations up. Or he can expect to be called out on it.
We have seen it so many times before. Time to call it for what it is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

These same jokers that are mouthing you would have been mouthing JESUS or John had they lived in the 1st Century A.D..........the tragic truth.....if these workers for, lawyers, Pharisees and salvation losers cannot handle a little heat from an unknown face on a website, imagine what happens when the crap really hits the fan for so called believers....oh say like the Great Tribulation.....they will fold like a poker player holding a pair of deuces in 7 card stud faster than one can buy a coke from a vending machine.....

NO WONDER the apo-hystamie comes with the MAN of SIN being revealed (2nd Thessalonians 2)

Ah yes.

Again, if your gonna make accusations be willing to back them up with concrete evidence, or be called out on it.

They make these accusations, then when asked to back them up. All we get is crickets..lol

 

[Marcelo]

Have we established that in fact Jesus never did tell us to stop keeping the law? If I understand correctly, you agree He did not, but that Paul was given authority to "change" what our Messiah taught? I'm paraphrasing, please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

It always bothered me, that verse :
Matt 23:1-12: “ Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, v.2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
Because, wow are we in trouble if this verse is translated correctly. The Pharisees had rules for every action in life right down to which shoe to put on first in the morning. Handwashing, you name it, they have rules and regulations for it I don't care what it is. We know Messiah was always saying He didn't care too much for the takanot and maasim of the Pharisees, that they break The Commandments to follow their own made up rules. So why would Messiah turn around and tell us to follow their man made rules?
The answer is in the translation a word "he" translated "they". The Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew has it right:
“The Pharisees and sages sit upon the seat of Moses. Therefore all that he says to you, diligently do, but according to their reforms (takanot ,Ibe,) and their precedents (ma’asim nhagn) do not do, because they talk but they do not do.”
Says Nehemia Gordon, “In the Hebrew Matthew, Yeshua is telling his disciples not to obey the Pharisees. If their claim to authority is that they sit in Moses’ seat, then diligently do as Moses says!” (page 48).

Information is coming to light that my grandmothers/fathers did not have access to. Very exciting to find these jewels. I

Yes, it is a fact that Jesus, while on Earth, never told us to stop keeping the law of Moses and it is my opinion that He did say so after the resurrection, through His spokesman Paul.

Your question is interesting: Why would Jesus tell His disciples to follow the scribes and the Pharisees? Why didn’t He tell them to follow Moses? Well, I think that back then the average Jew was illiterate and so it would be almost impossible to follow Moses’ writings – the people needed teachers.

Thanks for introducing me to the Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew. Whether Jesus told His disciples to obey the Pharisees (according to the Greek text) or to obey Moses (according to the Hebrew text), my point still stands: Jesus, while on Earth, never told us to us to stop keeping the law, so we (those who believe in salvation by grace through faith) have to rely on what Paul wrote.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, it is a fact that Jesus, while on Earth, never told us to stop keeping the law of Moses and it is my opinion that He did say so after the resurrection, through His spokesman Paul.

Your question is interesting: Why would Jesus tell His disciples to follow the scribes and the Pharisees? Why didn’t He tell them to follow Moses? Well, I think that back then the average Jew was illiterate and so it would be almost impossible to follow Moses’ writings – the people needed teachers.

Thanks for introducing me to the Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew. Whether Jesus told His disciples to obey the Pharisees (according to the Greek text) or to obey Moses (according to the Hebrew text), my point still stands: Jesus, while on Earth, never told us to us to stop keeping the law, so we (those who believe in salvation by grace through faith) have to rely on what Paul wrote.

Why would jesus tell people to follow something they can never attain?

The law requires perfection.

Moses laid it out. Paul confirmed it in gal 3. And james re-iterate it in james.

So why would jesus not give us somethig we CAN ATTAIN, instead of force us to follow somethign we can never attain?

 

[dcontroversal]

Why would jesus tell people to follow something they can never attain?

The law requires perfection.

Moses laid it out. Paul confirmed it in gal 3. And james re-iterate it in james.

So why would jesus not give us somethig we CAN ATTAIN, instead of force us to follow somethign we can never attain?

One thing that astounds me.......the fact that MANY refuse to see or acknowledge that JESUS was born, lived and died UNDER the law which RATIFIED the NEW COVENANT......HIS WORDS MUST be interpreted under and in light of this TRUTH........

It does a great disservice to the truth to reject or deny the above truth concerning the words of the LORD

 

[SimpleGardner]

it's the same here, as with the rich young ruler who came to Christ and called him 'good teacher' -- asking what he must "do" to inherit life.
Jesus tells him, 'no one is good but God' -- and he's supposed to put 2 + 2 and realize that he's not talking to a rabbi, but to God Himself in human flesh.
he does not make this connection, tho, during their conversation - so he does not have faith, and is instructed the same way anyone without faith is. remember in Exodus 16, the sabbath is first given in order to test the Israelites, whether they will obey the LORD or not - and they fail. some are still gathering more manna then they are supposed to, trying to keep it longer, etc. and so they come to Sinai and are given a covenant of law -- vis-a-vis, "line upon line, precept upon precept, so that they may go, and fall backward, be broken, and snared, and taken:" because He said to them, here is rest, but they would not hear ((re: Isaiah 28)).
they make a covenant with death, but it shall not stand.

yet can that rich young ruler be saved? Jesus tells him he lacks something, and gives him a command nowhere found in Torah - to sell everything and give it to the poor. Jesus is not giving him Torah: Torah is what this rich young man showed up with, boasting of, all the while knowing within himself that it was insufficient to grant life: and so he came to Christ, tho he did not know Who it was he spoke with.
the disciples see this and marvel, thinking who in the world can be saved? Jesus says, with man it is impossible ((blowing up the inheritance of life by keeping that ministration engraved on stones)) but with God, all things are possible.
all things.
including the possibility that this rich man went home and the truth dawned on him one day, and he believed. he did, after all, go away sad: and there is a great inference to be made from that fact - why was he sad?

Greetings PH,

I have a question about the Rich Young Ruler account.

Looking at The Matthew verses there are several things being discussed;

eternal life
perfection
Kingdom of Heaven entrance

Do you feel these are all synonymous?

 

[Dan_473]

Regarding an allegedly better version of Matthew, one may wish to check out this link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_Tob's_Hebrew_Gospel_of_Matthew

As well as this one
https://toolong.com/the-hebrew-version-of-matthew-shem-tob-matthew-shem-tov/

 

[SimpleGardner]

Regarding an allegedly better version of Matthew, one may wish to check out this link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_Tob's_Hebrew_Gospel_of_Matthew

As well as this one
https://toolong.com/the-hebrew-version-of-matthew-shem-tob-matthew-shem-tov/

Thanks

 

[Dan_473]

Also about the idea of the words of Jesus quoted in a gospel versus the words of an apostle writing a letter.

If Jesus spoke Aramaic, then the words contained in for example Matthew are already a translation. We assume that whoever human agent was the channel through whom God wrote the book of Matthew, it's just tradition that it was Matthew the apostle, we assume that human agent translated Jesus' words correctly. And that he remembered correctly, since most every scholar dates things like Matthew to be about 30 years after Jesus spoke the words.

So why it would be that the words of Paul or Luke who were obviously writing in Greek, copies of which we have today, why they are somehow considered less reliable channels of God's communications is something I don't understand.

 

[SimpleGardner]

no, it is not a sincere question, it is trap question.

I answer " yes" you respond and say " then what do you have against them? " in would say " nothing " them you say " well, why don't do your best to follow them"

you see, the law and the Sabbath have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION THROUGH FAITH IN CHIST.

and, once again, you have no comment on the Fruits of the Sprit.

No you are assuming again. I would not ask you why you wouldn't do your best to follow them or anything like that.

What a mess huh!?

 

[Marcelo]

Why would jesus tell people to follow something they can never attain?

The law requires perfection.

Moses laid it out. Paul confirmed it in gal 3. And james re-iterate it in james.

So why would jesus not give us somethig we CAN ATTAIN, instead of force us to follow somethign we can never attain?

The fact is Jesus expounded the law of Moses to the point that the disciples were astonished and asked: Who then can be saved?

Yes, the Law requires perfection and Jesus once said: "Be perfect for your heavenly father is perfect". Perfection is something we cannot attain and yet Jesus told us to be perfect.

Jesus did give us (after His death) something we can attain: the doctrine of the apostles

 

[DeighAnn]

THERE ARE GOING TO BE ALOT OF CAPITOL LETTERS, THEY ARE ALMOST ALL TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AND NOT TO YELL, WHICH I APARENTLY MUST STATE BECAUSE THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST SO PICKY ABOUT EVERY SINGLE JOT AND TITTLE. WE THOUGHT STUFF LIKE THAT WAS PUT AWAY BUT I AM REMINDED DAILY THAT THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. SO TO BE CLEAR FOR THOSE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND, I USED ALOT OF CAPITOL LETTERS IN MY LAST 3 POST AND THEY WERE TAKEN AS ALL YELLING. I WAS NOT GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN YET I FIND I WILL TO DISTINGUISH THE STATEMENT FROM THE ANSWER.

The more you post the more you prove you have no idea about what true grace believers believe.

What made you think I was trying to speak to the subject of "true grace"?

You cant wait till judgment day? Niether can we. As paul said, to be absent from the ody is to be present with the Lord. I only pray you HAD that assurance.

No need for you to pray for me to have that assurance. But if you feel led please do. I do not understand how after all these posts you do not comprehend. But for the sake of saving time for now and hopefully for always, I received that assurance same as you. I myself do not question the GRACE OF GOD. God gives to whom ever He wants and by what measure He wants, I myself do not judge Gods servants, you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, as did I. I repented and I was baptized, same flesh death, same rising to spiritual life led by the Holy Spirit., a new creature spirit led, my past sins forgiven. Is there something within here that would rob me of my assurance?


How you can believe in NOSAS and not be scared for your eternity simply amazes me.
Most likely it would., but I have read and studied much of the book and the Grace given me by God has never even hinted at a different way. I do not question the Grace of God. I love and accept the gifts of God happily and without question. I must admit, I am not a prodigal son, I have never turned my back on the Lord. and I have never questioned my eternal status, and have in fact only been made more secure in its fact through my study of the Word. When the books are opened, yes, books, bad books and good book, I know all my sins have been blotted out and I only look forward to the good book. Is there something within here that would rob me of my eternal status?


And do not strt your we love sin, and hate being obedient crap. Thats a lie.
You do know why we think you hate being obedient right? Just in case I will explain. It is most natural for the flesh body to be angry, uncivil, disobedient. The law written upon our hearts confirms it for all of us just the same. When every single approach to all who oppose you comes from a very flesh place, we can see it is not your spirit leading you. As such, you are not being obedient to the Holy Spirit and hence it comes across as if you love sin. Even when admonished by brothers with love, there is no signs what so ever of a contrite spirit. There are no messages of love just condemnation. How do you lead others to the Lord by brow beating them. Do you see this as the way of the Lord. Do you think I do not do this with a hope and a prayer for you, NOT to see it my way, but to find a different way for yourself so that others see the light shinning from within you. Just so you can be sure, these feelings have been mine since way before the internet. Anything to keep me from going on to my Lord and Savior here?


And we are quite frankly getting sick of hearing this non truth about Gods true children. Who not only LOVE GOD but in FAITH seek to love and serve him and serve others.
To seek after the things of the spirit. And in doing so. KNOW we will not succumb to the lusts of the flesh.
I was going to break this down but I feel there is just a typo word mix up kinda thing going on, and I might get a but unruly if I continue here.

You all think you do that bt following the law. Taking Gods law outside its purpose and thinking it is what makes you so righteous,, and boasting how thankful your not like “us sinners”!
Would you prefer we do it by following Satans example? Of course we follow the law. We like the law. We like not only law we like law and order. We know God likes law and order. God set up His entire creation based upon law and order. Without law is chaos, God is not the God of chaos. All the heavens and the earth live by law and order. Math science, nature, all of it. We are born in sin. When we were baptized into the Spirit led life we did not become all wise, we did not become suddenly no longer a soul and spirit that would never sin again. No, we took on help of the Spirit to turn from fleshly sin and be led by spiritual righteousness., the Holy Spirit. Baptism is not a "miracle" dunk. It is a proclamation to the world of your love and acceptance of Christ. We set our feet upon a path, we are on a road, a progress towards perfection. When we stumble and start to fall He catches us, when we can't go it on our own He carries us, when we need correction He takes care of that too!! Just like any father who so loves His child would. Being baptized doesn't "implant" the Word of God in our brains. It implants the Spirit in our hearts. The wish to follow Christ and live as He lived. Does something here take away my salvation?


You may feel I am taking Gods Law outside its purpose but I am not trying to put it out. Without Gods law in every area of life, there is no life. That is just a basic fact. ALL LIFE IS DEPENDANT ON GODS LAWS..

Not like us sinners, all of us are sinners. I feel stupid writing it. Anything suggesting I "make" my own righteousness?

Well yeah, we can not wait until judgment day. We just pray God does not tell so many, he never knew them because they THOUGHT they were so obedient doing all these works of CHrist in his name, yet as it turned out. All they did was practice unrighteousness, Because they NEvER came to saving faith

I went to school for lots of years and I left my schoolmaster behind. None of my teaching. That all stayed with me. Just as the study of the laws gave me guidance and direction, not to mention an open door to my Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name thy kingdom com THY WILL be done on earth as it is in heaven, give us this day, our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses or debts how ever you read it as we forgive others who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil for thine is the power and thee kingdom and the glory forever and ever amen.

The laws bring about love, and peace and harmony, and trust, and self control, and right thinking and we are perfected through them. We come to the same saving faith. You don't like it, I don't know why. You don't believe me when I say I find peace and joy in them. When I say I like them. They are so light I barely have to even think about them anymore. They have become a part of me. My flesh so rarely even asks for anything anymore. My walk it easy. Do you see anything in the way I am led of God that would preclude me from the gifts of the Father?

The laws you have seem to be much more strict than the ones I follow. They are so intolerant of anything outside of the circle. And severe penalties imposed by breaking them. The way they force you to approach other believers is "less than ideal" The ones I follow are full of forgiveness at any and every moment. They not only free me, but they free me instantly. I have no doubt.

I am not going to read this over as I think I have gotten the "basics" out and am sure I made some mistakes. If it is not a huge one and common sense covers it, cool. That is all I wanted to do.

 

[posthuman]

man lives by every word, every word, every word that proceeds from the Father.

Every word.

Physical circumcision is commanded in the Torah.

Galatians 5:1-8
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion does not [come] from Him who calls you.


Can you explain this?

as explained by Paul.

 

[DeighAnn]

Physical circumcision is commanded in the Torah.

Galatians 5:1-8
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion does not [come] from Him who calls you.


Can you explain this?

Yes. The blood on the Cross. No more blood sacrifice. This is of blood. Circumcision of heart. Jesus is the answer.

 

[posthuman]

Yes. The blood on the Cross. No more blood sacrifice. This is of blood. Circumcision of heart. Jesus is the answer.

that means there are at least some words in the law that Christians are not only not obligated to keep, but must not.

right?

so even though we live by every word of God, we do not live by every word of the law -- in fact, by at least some of the words of the law, we would die in a sense if we were to keep it, right?

 

[NayborBear]

Hey NayborBear,

Did my reply come across messed up?

Looking back over it and can't make sense of what I sent.

Apologies for any confusion.

SG

Apologies, not necessary, my brother!
If anything, it is I who needs beg forgiveness, for writing such long winded posts, in trying to esplain that which I believe, and have learned, as well, as have been learnt, regarding this "Forever Priesthood", in my Spiritual journeyings. aka "Roving sidewalk reporter!" I jest! Tis really of Spiritually significant import!

That, and the fact, that this thread, during my time of huntin' n peckin' 2 fingered long winded posts, which requires much thought, in prayerful meditory journeyings, requring the application/s of disciplines, in the keeping from turning too far left, or too far right? Became quite active. Almost as active as a chatroom in the speed of postings.
Being of a "spiritually sensitive nature", has shown me, that it is as much a "curse" as it is a "blessing." As the testimony I try to write gets lambasted through this "wretched man" that I am, to the only 2 fingers that have the ability of remembering where the letters on the keyboard are, from that semester of typing I had in highschool, some 51 years ago.

So, it takes me a little while longer then some, it seems, in "catching up."

Unconditional "love?" Unconditional "tolerance?"....Would me saying "6 of 1, half dozen of another" be correct?
Would the application of "tough love" in applications towards the "godless and lawless" direction/s the U.S. of A., not to mention the whole friggin' planet, be seen as "intolerance", by those upon whom "tough love" needs be applied?

Being not as "successful", as it sounds like you are, in "getting off the grid?" I found myself very much, some 15 years ago, or longer, feeling the "urgency" of getting off the grid. In the joining up with a "Church" that was (then) "off the grid", and mainly "patch farming", as my dad called it. Coupla acres, here. coupla acres there. Yanno? Patches! (for the benefit of city dwellers, or suburbanites...lol)
Didn't work out for me, as I later was "learnt", that God, had "something else" in mind, for that which He wanted for me, and from me. (sighs) I digress!

Ok!...Reading the mail, so to speak. I apologize for any posts, I haven't yet responded to.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The fact is Jesus expounded the law of Moses to the point that the disciples were astonished and asked: Who then can be saved?

Yep. Thats the point of the law.. Who then can be saved..

Thats the purpose jesus came,

Yes, the Law requires perfection and Jesus once said: "Be perfect for your heavenly father is perfect". Perfection is something we cannot attain and yet Jesus told us to be perfect.

Actually the word there can be translated mature or complete. It does not always mean perfect. Jesus did not tell us to be something he knows we can not do.

Jesus did give us (after His death) something we can attain: the doctrine of the apostles

He gave us the good news of Jesus. And gave us salvation. That is not somethign we can attain, that is just something we can receive, thats why it is called a gift. If we could attain it, it would not be of grace, it would be of works.

The law STILL required perfection. The 1st sin you ever commited as a child did you in, There was no hope of you earning salvation after that.

You can look at it like this. Every sin requires the death penalty, no matter how small that sin is.

No how many death penalties have you recieved for your whole entire life. How many did you receive for your sins today? And How many will recieve for sins you will commit for the rest of your life?

Now how can you make up for these death penalties. Do you see how impossible it is for you to earn salvation? Or work hard enough to make up for one sin, let alone all the rest you have commited and will commit?

See, this is what we have found out. Yet we are judged for loving sin, Hating Gods commands and all the other lies against us

Who is lying to themselves? It is not us my friend. I pray you see this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

THERE ARE GOING TO BE ALOT OF CAPITOL LETTERS, THEY ARE ALMOST ALL TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AND NOT TO YELL, WHICH I APARENTLY MUST STATE BECAUSE THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST SO PICKY ABOUT EVERY SINGLE JOT AND TITTLE. WE THOUGHT STUFF LIKE THAT WAS PUT AWAY BUT I AM REMINDED DAILY THAT THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. SO TO BE CLEAR FOR THOSE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND, I USED ALOT OF CAPITOL LETTERS IN MY LAST 3 POST AND THEY WERE TAKEN AS ALL YELLING. I WAS NOT GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN YET I FIND I WILL TO DISTINGUISH THE STATEMENT FROM THE ANSWER.

The more you post the more you prove you have no idea about what true grace believers believe.

What made you think I was trying to speak to the subject of "true grace"?

You cant wait till judgment day? Niether can we. As paul said, to be absent from the ody is to be present with the Lord. I only pray you HAD that assurance.

No need for you to pray for me to have that assurance. But if you feel led please do. I do not understand how after all these posts you do not comprehend. But for the sake of saving time for now and hopefully for always, I received that assurance same as you. I myself do not question the GRACE OF GOD. God gives to whom ever He wants and by what measure He wants, I myself do not judge Gods servants, you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, as did I. I repented and I was baptized, same flesh death, same rising to spiritual life led by the Holy Spirit., a new creature spirit led, my past sins forgiven. Is there something within here that would rob me of my assurance?


How you can believe in NOSAS and not be scared for your eternity simply amazes me.
Most likely it would., but I have read and studied much of the book and the Grace given me by God has never even hinted at a different way. I do not question the Grace of God. I love and accept the gifts of God happily and without question. I must admit, I am not a prodigal son, I have never turned my back on the Lord. and I have never questioned my eternal status, and have in fact only been made more secure in its fact through my study of the Word. When the books are opened, yes, books, bad books and good book, I know all my sins have been blotted out and I only look forward to the good book. Is there something within here that would rob me of my eternal status?


And do not strt your we love sin, and hate being obedient crap. Thats a lie.
You do know why we think you hate being obedient right? Just in case I will explain. It is most natural for the flesh body to be angry, uncivil, disobedient. The law written upon our hearts confirms it for all of us just the same. When every single approach to all who oppose you comes from a very flesh place, we can see it is not your spirit leading you. As such, you are not being obedient to the Holy Spirit and hence it comes across as if you love sin. Even when admonished by brothers with love, there is no signs what so ever of a contrite spirit. There are no messages of love just condemnation. How do you lead others to the Lord by brow beating them. Do you see this as the way of the Lord. Do you think I do not do this with a hope and a prayer for you, NOT to see it my way, but to find a different way for yourself so that others see the light shinning from within you. Just so you can be sure, these feelings have been mine since way before the internet. Anything to keep me from going on to my Lord and Savior here?


And we are quite frankly getting sick of hearing this non truth about Gods true children. Who not only LOVE GOD but in FAITH seek to love and serve him and serve others.
To seek after the things of the spirit. And in doing so. KNOW we will not succumb to the lusts of the flesh.
I was going to break this down but I feel there is just a typo word mix up kinda thing going on, and I might get a but unruly if I continue here.

You all think you do that bt following the law. Taking Gods law outside its purpose and thinking it is what makes you so righteous,, and boasting how thankful your not like “us sinners”!
Would you prefer we do it by following Satans example? Of course we follow the law. We like the law. We like not only law we like law and order. We know God likes law and order. God set up His entire creation based upon law and order. Without law is chaos, God is not the God of chaos. All the heavens and the earth live by law and order. Math science, nature, all of it. We are born in sin. When we were baptized into the Spirit led life we did not become all wise, we did not become suddenly no longer a soul and spirit that would never sin again. No, we took on help of the Spirit to turn from fleshly sin and be led by spiritual righteousness., the Holy Spirit. Baptism is not a "miracle" dunk. It is a proclamation to the world of your love and acceptance of Christ. We set our feet upon a path, we are on a road, a progress towards perfection. When we stumble and start to fall He catches us, when we can't go it on our own He carries us, when we need correction He takes care of that too!! Just like any father who so loves His child would. Being baptized doesn't "implant" the Word of God in our brains. It implants the Spirit in our hearts. The wish to follow Christ and live as He lived. Does something here take away my salvation?


You may feel I am taking Gods Law outside its purpose but I am not trying to put it out. Without Gods law in every area of life, there is no life. That is just a basic fact. ALL LIFE IS DEPENDANT ON GODS LAWS..

Not like us sinners, all of us are sinners. I feel stupid writing it. Anything suggesting I "make" my own righteousness?

Well yeah, we can not wait until judgment day. We just pray God does not tell so many, he never knew them because they THOUGHT they were so obedient doing all these works of CHrist in his name, yet as it turned out. All they did was practice unrighteousness, Because they NEvER came to saving faith

I went to school for lots of years and I left my schoolmaster behind. None of my teaching. That all stayed with me. Just as the study of the laws gave me guidance and direction, not to mention an open door to my Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name thy kingdom com THY WILL be done on earth as it is in heaven, give us this day, our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses or debts how ever you read it as we forgive others who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil for thine is the power and thee kingdom and the glory forever and ever amen.

The laws bring about love, and peace and harmony, and trust, and self control, and right thinking and we are perfected through them. We come to the same saving faith. You don't like it, I don't know why. You don't believe me when I say I find peace and joy in them. When I say I like them. They are so light I barely have to even think about them anymore. They have become a part of me. My flesh so rarely even asks for anything anymore. My walk it easy. Do you see anything in the way I am led of God that would preclude me from the gifts of the Father?

The laws you have seem to be much more strict than the ones I follow. They are so intolerant of anything outside of the circle. And severe penalties imposed by breaking them. The way they force you to approach other believers is "less than ideal" The ones I follow are full of forgiveness at any and every moment. They not only free me, but they free me instantly. I have no doubt.

I am not going to read this over as I think I have gotten the "basics" out and am sure I made some mistakes. If it is not a huge one and common sense covers it, cool. That is all I wanted to do.

All I see here is you still you have no idea what we believe

When you are ready to sit down and understand, come talk to us, we will be happy to share.

As for the law. As paul said to those who wanted to be circumcised, if your goin gto add that, your indebted to the whole law. The law is a unit, not just a few commands we can pick or chose to follow or say we have made it because we have never broken them, it is a unit, break one, your cursed.

Thats the point and the reason the law came. To make it anything else is to take it out of context..