Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Dan_473]

Poorly written on my part. Jesus brings the two extremes and meets them in the middle.

Here is my problem with the "Spirit Led Life"

1. If Gods people could exist without Gods Law, He wouldn't have it. He didn't have it, then He did. Now that Satan and his evil spirits are on their way and God is going to say this is a great time to just let my people be just spirit led If that worked no one would need to read the Word.

2 How do you know Whos Spirit you are being led by.

3 If you really love God, you love His laws because they are good and God is good and you love God and you love God as not only your Creator, and Savior, and Father but your government, your society rules,

You know, I erase a lot more than I ever send. I really can be funny, but I thank God I can see that others wouldn't think so

Lots of great ideas in your post, there!

Let's take them one at a time so we don't get confused.
So starting with the first one, that at first there was no law.

Genesis 1: 28. God blessed them. God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Is this a law? A rule that God gave to humans to instruct them how to live?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I believe God reveals so much of Himself through every word written to us in this letter. I can feel His presence in me and my life, but to really get to know some one you have to sit down and talk to them and listen to them and there is only one way we can be sure we are talking to God and that is through the words written to us. We will never meet anyone more loving, or smarter, or more powerful....And when I was young and saved and baptized and "I knew God loved me and we had a special relationship that no one else understood" and one day I figured out He really did know all about me, but what did I with in my "spirit led I love you, you love me I am a good person" life REALLY know about HIM? And I got to thinking "WHY was I made to feel so comfortable in my life NOT READING THE LETTER?" And that is a really long letter, and by the grace of God, I went to prove something to someone about God and I was 100% wrong. Thank you God.
And now I know. And now I understand. And now it is the love of my life. There isn't anything about God and the Word that I don't love. And the first time one of His promises comes true, You are nothing but thankful and amazed and wanting more. And all you have to do is seek. And I needed a lot of improvement and you are not kidding when you said "I need His grace every minute to become more like Him". Is there anything better to aspire to? And it has nothing to do with the "brownie points", He has blessed me more than I ever deserved already, Its about becoming that better person because the better I am the more I can relate to Him. It is the best being captured by the Lord. God Bless You, enjoy the walk and until me meet....

Amen. This is my heart and experience also.
Some simply do not know this or understand it. Not sure there is an answer to this, because what one
does not know, one does not know.

We share to connect, and praise God there are others who know, Amen.

 

[NayborBear]

I

I have no idea what your saying, So will not even try to respond. Your not making any sense..

You have already proven you and those like you have no idea what true grace believers believe. So it is fruitless to continue to try to show you or them. The slander will continue because of closed hearts.

Are the reason/s why that that which you see as "works for, and/or maintaining of one's salvation", is just so much "futile effort/s", or "folly" in your eyes, and opinions, and teaching/s.

In other words because YOU, and others LIKE you see these efforts as "folly" in your eyes. Which is precisely what you ARE saying when you state that you have NO IDEA what I'm saying? Makes me, and others WRONG?
Because that's what you're doing, isn't it? Pretty narrow minded isn't it?
Allow me, if you will to shine a little light here.
The "many membered body of Christ?" Is NOT "THE government" on Christ's shoulders!
PART of "the government?" Yes! But ONLY part!
The grace God gives in giving rest in Christ? Goes away, the MOMENT one chooses, or in some cases "been chosen", to "pick up one's cross" and FOLLOW Christ!
You are probably asking. "Now WHY would ANYONE do such a thing?"
Like I stated earlier? I didn't call on God, nor ask God for help in any way, when I had had enough of crack cocaine, and just "turned my back" to it, and walked away from it!
God? CHOSE me! It was such an experience, and I have to liken it to what it must have been like for Saul on the road to Tarsus. Only it wasn't Jesus! It was His Father! Telling me several things. One being that I had done "acts ATTRIBUTABLE towards righteousness!" Another being, that "My WORD doesn't go out from ME, and RETURN to ME void!" Another being, "EVERYTHING you learned in church?" "Is WRONG!" Can't tell ya what else He said. He won't allow it!
Anyway, just as Saul didn't refuse Christ? I didn't refuse His Father! To be quite honest? "REFUSING?" Was NOT an option! As I imagine it was the same for Saul!

So, it's not for you, or your kind, that I post these testimonies. It's for the others, that have not, as yet, been given "strong delusion."
And, if this seems wrong in your eyes? And, I haven't had any indication in your posts that what I am posting is right in your eyes, and others eyes?
Then VIVA la PERSECUTION!
For I shall ENDURE it! TILL the end!

 

[Dan_473]

Until you read the written law and meditate on it you will fall short of all the wise council that is available to you. You don't get to say "Hey Holy Spirit, I know it's written, but you tell me! God is efficient and He knows you can read! There are pearls there that you will not receive any other way. Like it or not that's the way it is! You may have fewer questions and better answers if you do!

Absolutely read God's law! And meditate!
Psalm 1: 2. But whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and whose mind is on his law day and night.

I am thankful to that in addition to the law given through Moses in the wilderness, we also have the words of Jesus and his apostles and Prophets

Matthew 7: 12. Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

And we know there are more things Jesus wanted to say while here on Earth but couldn't communicate them
John 16: 12. "I have yet many things to tell you, but you can't bear them now.

 

[DeighAnn]

1 Timothy 1:9-10
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 8:2-3
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Galatians 3:10-11
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

GRANDPA PLEASE STOP ADDRESSING ME as you can not seem to comprehend what my values and beliefs are and all you see me as is a "judaizer and under sin and death"

I quote "But when God manifested in the flesh, became the sacrifice, and His death upon the accursed tree the ransom, then the Sufferer being of infinite worth, His free-will sufferings were of infinite value. The atoning sacrifice must be one capable of consenting, and must of His own will, place himself in the sinner's stead"

He got rid of that old law, He did HIMSELF. Someone LIED to you when they told you that a CHRISTIAN could be "under that old law". GOD DID AWAY WITH IT way before we were ever born. It was done away with to bring in A NEW AND BETTER. Please go look it up yourself. Don't believe me or any one else.

so HOPEFULLY LOUDLY ENOUGH, I deighann EMBRACE THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW OF JESUS CHRIST WRITTEN UPON MY HEART AND IN MY MIND, THAT DOES NOT/CAN NOT TRANSFER EVER, OVER TO A LAW THAT DOESN'T EXIST. PLEASE QUIT ACCUSING ME OF "BEING UNDER THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH" and a judaizer and whatever things you say.

Again, to be clear,
I EMBRACE THE NEW COVENANT OF JESUS CHRIST, understanding the old was done away with because THE LETTER KILLETH, and the new came in place of it because THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE.

I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE JUSTIFIED, OR TO FIND MY SALVATION or to BE MADE RIGHTEOUS EITHER IN OR THROUGH THE LAW. NEVER, NOT ONCE. I REALLY HOPE AND PRAY YOU CAN HEAR THIS.

 

[Dan_473]

We are all the bride

Very true!

And in ancient Israel, and according to the letter of the law, women would often find themselves required to marry someone they might not have wanted to.

 

[Dan_473]

Just wondering, do you think all new converts to Christ are instantly wise enough to make complicated spiritual decisions.

No, and that's why it's good for a new Christian to be surrounded by mature Christians, and to read their Bible frequently, and to pray without ceasing!

And I would say that even a new Christian would very likely be able to see that in 21st century America requiring a woman to marry her rapist does not fit with the basic teachings of Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are the reason/s why that that which you see as "works for, and/or maintaining of one's salvation", is just so much "futile effort/s", or "folly" in your eyes, and opinions, and teaching/s.

In other words because YOU, and others LIKE you see these efforts as "folly" in your eyes. Which is precisely what you ARE saying when you state that you have NO IDEA what I'm saying? Makes me, and others WRONG?
Because that's what you're doing, isn't it? Pretty narrow minded isn't it?
Allow me, if you will to shine a little light here.
The "many membered body of Christ?" Is NOT "THE government" on Christ's shoulders!
PART of "the government?" Yes! But ONLY part!
The grace God gives in giving rest in Christ? Goes away, the MOMENT one chooses, or in some cases "been chosen", to "pick up one's cross" and FOLLOW Christ!
You are probably asking. "Now WHY would ANYONE do such a thing?"
Like I stated earlier? I didn't call on God, nor ask God for help in any way, when I had had enough of crack cocaine, and just "turned my back" to it, and walked away from it!
God? CHOSE me! It was such an experience, and I have to liken it to what it must have been like for Saul on the road to Tarsus. Only it wasn't Jesus! It was His Father! Telling me several things. One being that I had done "acts ATTRIBUTABLE towards righteousness!" Another being, that "My WORD doesn't go out from ME, and RETURN to ME void!" Another being, "EVERYTHING you learned in church?" "Is WRONG!" Can't tell ya what else He said. He won't allow it!
Anyway, just as Saul didn't refuse Christ? I didn't refuse His Father! To be quite honest? "REFUSING?" Was NOT an option! As I imagine it was the same for Saul!

So, it's not for you, or your kind, that I post these testimonies. It's for the others, that have not, as yet, been given "strong delusion."
And, if this seems wrong in your eyes? And, I haven't had any indication in your posts that what I am posting is right in your eyes, and others eyes?
Then VIVA la PERSECUTION!
For I shall ENDURE it! TILL the end!

Once again you have proved you do not understand what we think. And I am personally sick of trying to explain it to you because I have tried so many times and you refuse to see it

 

[SimpleGardner]

So true!
James 1: 19. So, then, my beloved brothers, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger; 20. for the anger of man doesn't produce the righteousness of God.

Yes, and don't you know our Brother James read about Simion and Levi's anger and Jacobs pronouncement many times over. Not to mention what he saw in real life every day, but Simeon and Levi were examples of the end result of that kind of anger that he could actually see and quantify with his own eyes.

 

[NayborBear]

Once again you have proved you do not understand what we think. And I am personally sick of trying to explain it to you because I have tried so many times and you refuse to see it

Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?

And so it goes. Like playing chess with a pigeon! Knocks over all the pieces, poops on the board. Then struts around acting like it won!

 

[SimpleGardner]

Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?

And so it goes. Like playing chess with a pigeon! Knocks over all the pieces, poops on the board. Then struts around acting like it won!

I sense your frustration!

Interesting analogy. &

When it comes down to it we are all free to pick our path. I prefer the lighted path!

Psa 119:105-106 KJV NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. (106) I have sworn, and I will perform it, that I will keep thy righteous judgments.

 

[UnderGrace]

GRANDPA PLEASE STOP ADDRESSING ME as you can not seem to comprehend what my values and beliefs are and all you see me as is a "judaizer and under sin and death"

I quote "But when God manifested in the flesh, became the sacrifice, and His death upon the accursed tree the ransom, then the Sufferer being of infinite worth, His free-will sufferings were of infinite value. The atoning sacrifice must be one capable of consenting, and must of His own will, place himself in the sinner's stead"

He got rid of that old law, He did HIMSELF. Someone LIED to you when they told you that a CHRISTIAN could be "under that old law". GOD DID AWAY WITH IT way before we were ever born. It was done away with to bring in A NEW AND BETTER. Please go look it up yourself. Don't believe me or any one else.

so HOPEFULLY LOUDLY ENOUGH, I deighann EMBRACE THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW OF JESUS CHRIST WRITTEN UPON MY HEART AND IN MY MIND, THAT DOES NOT/CAN NOT TRANSFER EVER, OVER TO A LAW THAT DOESN'T EXIST. PLEASE QUIT ACCUSING ME OF "BEING UNDER THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH" and a judaizer and whatever things you say.

Again, to be clear,
I EMBRACE THE NEW COVENANT OF JESUS CHRIST, understanding the old was done away with because THE LETTER KILLETH, and the new came in place of it because THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE.

I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE JUSTIFIED, OR TO FIND MY SALVATION or to BE MADE RIGHTEOUS EITHER IN OR THROUGH THE LAW. NEVER, NOT ONCE. I REALLY HOPE AND PRAY YOU CAN HEAR THIS.

I hear and read you!!!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Are the reason/s why that that which you see as "works for, and/or maintaining of one's salvation", is just so much "futile effort/s", or "folly" in your eyes, and opinions, and teaching/s.

In other words because YOU, and others LIKE you see these efforts as "folly" in your eyes. Which is precisely what you ARE saying when you state that you have NO IDEA what I'm saying? Makes me, and others WRONG?
Because that's what you're doing, isn't it? Pretty narrow minded isn't it?
Allow me, if you will to shine a little light here.
The "many membered body of Christ?" Is NOT "THE government" on Christ's shoulders!
PART of "the government?" Yes! But ONLY part!
The grace God gives in giving rest in Christ? Goes away, the MOMENT one chooses, or in some cases "been chosen", to "pick up one's cross" and FOLLOW Christ!
You are probably asking. "Now WHY would ANYONE do such a thing?"
Like I stated earlier? I didn't call on God, nor ask God for help in any way, when I had had enough of crack cocaine, and just "turned my back" to it, and walked away from it!
God? CHOSE me! It was such an experience, and I have to liken it to what it must have been like for Saul on the road to Tarsus. Only it wasn't Jesus! It was His Father! Telling me several things. One being that I had done "acts ATTRIBUTABLE towards righteousness!" Another being, that "My WORD doesn't go out from ME, and RETURN to ME void!" Another being, "EVERYTHING you learned in church?" "Is WRONG!" Can't tell ya what else He said. He won't allow it!
Anyway, just as Saul didn't refuse Christ? I didn't refuse His Father! To be quite honest? "REFUSING?" Was NOT an option! As I imagine it was the same for Saul!

So, it's not for you, or your kind, that I post these testimonies. It's for the others, that have not, as yet, been given "strong delusion."
And, if this seems wrong in your eyes? And, I haven't had any indication in your posts that what I am posting is right in your eyes, and others eyes?
Then VIVA la PERSECUTION!
For I shall ENDURE it! TILL the end!

Amen. Pick up our cross and follow Jesus.

We need hearts of flesh to be able to do this, knowing the Holy Spirit talking
to our hearts.

It does not dawn on some, that if the words of Jesus are too hard, it is not
Jesus who has the problem but the listener.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I sense your frustration!

Interesting analogy. &

When it comes down to it we are all free to pick our path. I prefer the lighted path!

Psa 119:105-106 KJV NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. (106) I have sworn, and I will perform it, that I will keep thy righteous judgments.

I have seen people mention the word of power LOVE and then be attacked by
"believers".

In the house group I attend, over the years I have begun to see the Lord
move in openness, love and His Spirit, healing, encouraging and bringing blessing
on His people. Last night we had 7 people give their testimonies of the Lord in
their lives. And they all spoke of things they cared about and how the Lord had
brought love meaning and focus to their lives.

As sisters and brothers in Christ, this is what I call true fellowship. And in our group
they are not terribly theological, but they know Jesus and His love at work.

God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Once again you have proved you do not understand what we think. And I am personally sick of trying to explain it to you because I have tried so many times and you refuse to see it

"you have proved" "sick of trying" "you refuse"

This is how you communicate being upset, because this poor self sacrificing
individual is putting so much effort in to communicate, to someone who refuses
to listen, they are literally sick of it. lol

I do not remember Jesus reacting like this to anyone.
He wept for peoples blindness to love and openness, reconciliation with God
through faith and repentance. And carrying our cross each day, we expect rejection
and hurt, because that is what sinners do.

It makes me wonder if this is the approach and life style of an individual, does
anyone want to know more? I praise God for His empathy and love to us sinners,
to turn us into saints. Amen.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I have seen people mention the word of power LOVE and then be attacked by
"believers".

In the house group I attend, over the years I have begun to see the Lord
move in openness, love and His Spirit, healing, encouraging and bringing blessing
on His people. Last night we had 7 people give their testimonies of the Lord in
their lives. And they all spoke of things they cared about and how the Lord had
brought love meaning and focus to their lives.

As sisters and brothers in Christ, this is what I call true fellowship. And in our group
they are not terribly theological, but they know Jesus and His love at work.

God bless you

The "quote" believers "unquote" was not lost on me. I sense many have simply wandered into the wrong crowd and they better open their eyes!

We cannot say that they will not be in the Kingdom of Heaven because Jesus did say:

Mat 5:18-19 KJV For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Not sure what "being least in the kingdom of heaven" translates to, but, The Holy Spirit has shown me that these who resist Gods order are "without excuse" They put something else, pride, family, fellowship, etc etc, above the Law. So, that said, perhaps we have been one of their opportunities to reconsider, and some may still and I know every one of us will open our hearts and arms.

Also note; that when Jesus was speaking of His many audiences in "that day" with those who chose to work within the church "without the law" he said:


Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So a mans position and actions with regard to His commandments is a very serious matter! It is an absolute indicator of a mans love or lack of love for Him.

 

[Grandpa]

GRANDPA PLEASE STOP ADDRESSING ME as you can not seem to comprehend what my values and beliefs are and all you see me as is a "judaizer and under sin and death"

And now I know. And now I understand. And now it is the love of my life. There isn't anything about God and the Word that I don't love. And the first time one of His promises comes true, You are nothing but thankful and amazed and wanting more. And all you have to do is seek. And I needed a lot of improvement and you are not kidding when you said "I need His grace every minute to become more like Him". Is there anything better to aspire to? And it has nothing to do with the "brownie points", He has blessed me more than I ever deserved already, Its about becoming that better person because the better I am the more I can relate to Him. It is the best being captured by the Lord. God Bless You, enjoy the walk and until me meet....

All I did was quote scripture that you professed to love.

Not sure why you got so upset over that.

Unless you were just kidding about there being nothing about God and the Word that you don't love.

You have to be more obvious when you are just kidding about something. I can't tell over the internet.

 

[DeighAnn]

All I did was quote scripture that you professed to love.

Not sure why you got so upset over that.

Unless you were just kidding about there being nothing about God and the Word that you don't love.

You have to be more obvious when you are just kidding about something. I can't tell over the internet.

That was all you did? Is that Gods honest truth.? That is all you meant? That is what "the Spirit" leads you to do? or is that gods honest truth?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?

And so it goes. Like playing chess with a pigeon! Knocks over all the pieces, poops on the board. Then struts around acting like it won!

Please stop responding to me, You continue to prove you have no clue what I believe, proven by these ridiculous posts. As if I do not believe those things.

You want me to respect you show me some respect by showing you can at least learn what I believe, and not continue to be in darkness and THINK YOU KNOW.

 

[DeighAnn]

No, and that's why it's good for a new Christian to be surrounded by mature Christians, and to read their Bible frequently, and to pray without ceasing!

And I would say that even a new Christian would very likely be able to see that in 21st century America requiring a woman to marry her rapist does not fit with the basic teachings of Jesus.

Makes you realize not only the reason but also the difference between the "Letter of the Law" and the "Spirit of the Law" and how the Holy Spirt leads us. Thank God for the wisdom and knowledge of God for the common sense to be able to discern between the times and the relevance and/or irrelevance of each of the laws that past away and/or was changed. Do you think common sense comes from a gift of God direct, or from study in the Word of God as a gift. I think He may gift people but more than not it comes from studying. I know for me it, it has been a huge leap. Some questions people ask can't be answered by another person, they can only be found, one on one with God in deep study. Some people get so mad when you tell them to find the answer in the bible themselves. And even with deep study, He gives it to you in His time not yours. Don't you agree?
Do you think that the rapist had to marry the girl because she was considered "not clean" after and as such would never marry and it was a way to make sure she did? Do you think there were many rapists? I think society was much different.
Where did it say the girl had to marry the rapist? I thought they were to be stoned to death? I have always found comfort in that. I think that all rapists and murderers should be stoned in public with the family allowed to throw the first stone. I think if we followed Gods laws on this today there would be much less of it happening.

The good side is it must have worked out really well for those star crossed lovers from different tribes who were told they would never be together, and they couldn't live without each other. But as with everything in this life it is the battle between Good and Evil every step of the way isn't it? People seem to forget that Everything is vanity. The only things that truly count are of the Sprititual world even here even now. God even tells us how fleeting this life is. I guess when you can divide a spirit from a soul it doesn't take to much flesh life to see how much of what we did back then was of love and goodness and strength and courage, or an evil influence or if the evil was really a part of us and we can't overcome. I know I can't wait till Judgment Day either.