Gospel or theology?
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Theology is just words that explain the concepts held within a faith position.
Some theology is simply wrong, ie a miss-representation of a group or an idea.
I saw one yesterday when someone claimed Paul was of the circumcision group.
It is possible to get away with some statements to people who do not know the belief system
of others and their arguments, but there are definitive positions that are clear over time when
all the facts are put together.
One common one is Paul preaches a different position to Jesus.
And superficially this appears to be true. But when you start to look at the nature of love, and
how love and the cross transforms the heart, you see they are saying the same thing.
The problem is the "word", Jesus, the commands, our lives, our expressions are interwoven in the
Kingdom. We become what He has planted in us, as we see reality and how it works out, obedience
is less a thing we have to do, rather a reflection of who we are.
In a conversation with a believer he stated that Jesus could have died for our sin anywhere at any
time, except in this they actually declared they did not know Jesus or why being friends with the disciples
was the whole point. Blind, lost, drifting, wondering what the focus was was were the disciples were.
Until the Holy Spirit fell on them, they were good men, following Jesus, but not quite knowing how.
Afterwards they knew the words and the transformation of the Kingdom come to earth, the word made
flesh and living within them.
So we are both in the Kingdom, in theology, in the word, becoming and putting to death the old man and
bringing to life the new man in Christ Jesus our Lord, Amen.
Some theology is simply wrong, ie a miss-representation of a group or an idea.
I saw one yesterday when someone claimed Paul was of the circumcision group.
It is possible to get away with some statements to people who do not know the belief system
of others and their arguments, but there are definitive positions that are clear over time when
all the facts are put together.
One common one is Paul preaches a different position to Jesus.
And superficially this appears to be true. But when you start to look at the nature of love, and
how love and the cross transforms the heart, you see they are saying the same thing.
The problem is the "word", Jesus, the commands, our lives, our expressions are interwoven in the
Kingdom. We become what He has planted in us, as we see reality and how it works out, obedience
is less a thing we have to do, rather a reflection of who we are.
In a conversation with a believer he stated that Jesus could have died for our sin anywhere at any
time, except in this they actually declared they did not know Jesus or why being friends with the disciples
was the whole point. Blind, lost, drifting, wondering what the focus was was were the disciples were.
Until the Holy Spirit fell on them, they were good men, following Jesus, but not quite knowing how.
Afterwards they knew the words and the transformation of the Kingdom come to earth, the word made
flesh and living within them.
So we are both in the Kingdom, in theology, in the word, becoming and putting to death the old man and
bringing to life the new man in Christ Jesus our Lord, Amen.
Are you serious to call salvation by faith in the atonement of Jesus insufficient?
You can’t even decide what the term theology means. Ones theology is always colored by its source. The history of theology is interesting and a study of its principals and evolution highlight today’s diversity of interpretations, and its remedies.
You need to go back to square one in your understanding of who God is and how He relates to us, and we to Him. For without pure humility before God and man we humans tend to inflate our egos and become “teachers” by our own will, and not God’s.
You can’t even decide what the term theology means. Ones theology is always colored by its source. The history of theology is interesting and a study of its principals and evolution highlight today’s diversity of interpretations, and its remedies.
You need to go back to square one in your understanding of who God is and how He relates to us, and we to Him. For without pure humility before God and man we humans tend to inflate our egos and become “teachers” by our own will, and not God’s.
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A knowledge of theology is not required to receive Christ as Savior and be eternally saved. A knowledge of theology generally prevents people from coming to Christ and becoming saved.
We study God after we receive the Holy Spirit who is imparted to us when we are saved. Discipleship is a study in theology. Sound doctrine guides us in our study of theology not the other way around.
The gospel remains a simple truth that even a child is able to comprehend. Men are sinners. God condemns sinners. Jesus came to redeem lost sinful men. Salvation is a gift of God given to all who receive Jesus as Savior. God saves because He is great in mercy and love. God condemns because men reject His Son as Savior. Men are condemned because they reject the gift of God which is eternal life in His presence.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We study God after we receive the Holy Spirit who is imparted to us when we are saved. Discipleship is a study in theology. Sound doctrine guides us in our study of theology not the other way around.
The gospel remains a simple truth that even a child is able to comprehend. Men are sinners. God condemns sinners. Jesus came to redeem lost sinful men. Salvation is a gift of God given to all who receive Jesus as Savior. God saves because He is great in mercy and love. God condemns because men reject His Son as Savior. Men are condemned because they reject the gift of God which is eternal life in His presence.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Some 'gospels' are also wrong...
Galatians 1:6-9 NASB
[6] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; [7] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. [8] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! [9] As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Galatians 1:6-9 NASB
[6] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; [7] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. [8] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! [9] As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
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Preston
Thank you for correcting my error above with "I'm sure you mean"
Let me correct you.
It's Baptising (which I'm sure you meant)
Your conclusion was incorrect.
Had you bothered to read what I was saying
I said theology can mess up the gospel.
I gave the above as examples as theology that is not right.
But as you usually do, you like to have a little swipe without fully trying to understand what a poster is saying.
Thank you for correcting my error above with "I'm sure you mean"
Let me correct you.
It's Baptising (which I'm sure you meant)
Your conclusion was incorrect.
Had you bothered to read what I was saying
I said theology can mess up the gospel.
I gave the above as examples as theology that is not right.
But as you usually do, you like to have a little swipe without fully trying to understand what a poster is saying.
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Just proves my point above.
I ask you a question and you come back with the above response to me.
Yet I notice someone asked you the same question after me and answered the question.
Different response than the one you gave to me.
I wonder why?
Mind you you haven't responded to a lot of my posts in other threads, nor many others.
The reason being is that it exposes your false theology that detracts from the true gospel.
Or if you do like earlier with MMD who gave his thoughts you say "Wrong just wrong"
Very sad that some so called Chrisrians just want to impose and not discuss.
I have left a correction for you to make in my last sentence.
I'm sure you will if you don't know what I mean.
Good day sir.
I ask you a question and you come back with the above response to me.
Yet I notice someone asked you the same question after me and answered the question.
Different response than the one you gave to me.
I wonder why?
Mind you you haven't responded to a lot of my posts in other threads, nor many others.
The reason being is that it exposes your false theology that detracts from the true gospel.
Or if you do like earlier with MMD who gave his thoughts you say "Wrong just wrong"
Very sad that some so called Chrisrians just want to impose and not discuss.
I have left a correction for you to make in my last sentence.
I'm sure you will if you don't know what I mean.
Good day sir.
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Please note carefully what stated in this verse: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23)
It is quite unfortunate that when the Gospel is preached, the evangelists or preachers generally fail to tell their audience that it is God who commands you to repent and to believe.
It is quite unfortunate that when the Gospel is preached, the evangelists or preachers generally fail to tell their audience that it is God who commands you to repent and to believe.
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Would you agree with what I think?
Jesus said that he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come.
One of the reasons he said why is that the Holy Spirit would convict the world of its sin.
That sin is unbelief in Jesus.
So when we believe in Jesus (genuine belief) then we have repented and believe.
Then the Holy Spirit will work in us to conform us to the image of Jesus.
Jesus said that he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come.
One of the reasons he said why is that the Holy Spirit would convict the world of its sin.
That sin is unbelief in Jesus.
So when we believe in Jesus (genuine belief) then we have repented and believe.
Then the Holy Spirit will work in us to conform us to the image of Jesus.
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That is certainly a major part of repentance. But that is not all that is included in repentance.
1. Peter speaks of conversion, and conversion means a turning around, an about face, a 180 degree change in everything, a turning from sins and idols and a turning to God and Christ completely.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted*, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19)
*Strong's Concordance
epistrephó: to turn, to return
Original Word: ἐπιστρέφω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epistrephó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-stref'-o)
Definition: to turn, to return
Usage: (a) trans: I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself.
2. Paul told the Thessalonians that the impact of the Gospel on their lives was that they turned to God from idols, in order to serve the living God. The same Greek word is used by Paul.
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned* (epistrephó) to God from idols to serve the living and true God (1 Thess 1:8,9)
1. Peter speaks of conversion, and conversion means a turning around, an about face, a 180 degree change in everything, a turning from sins and idols and a turning to God and Christ completely.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted*, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19)
*Strong's Concordance
epistrephó: to turn, to return
Original Word: ἐπιστρέφω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epistrephó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-stref'-o)
Definition: to turn, to return
Usage: (a) trans: I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself.
2. Paul told the Thessalonians that the impact of the Gospel on their lives was that they turned to God from idols, in order to serve the living God. The same Greek word is used by Paul.
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned* (epistrephó) to God from idols to serve the living and true God (1 Thess 1:8,9)
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That I agree with.
My assumption is that when a person repents of the sin of unbelief that is the 180 degree turn.
As a result they will want to turn away from sins and idols and anything that blocks the relationship with God.
Which is why I said the Holy Spirit will work in us to conform us to the image of Jesus.
I gave my thoughts in another thread an hour or so back.
If a person professes faith with no desire to change then that needs to be addressed.
I hope I did not come across as a greasy gracers.
That I am certainly not.
I hope I made a bit more sense.
Always happy to discuss or clarify if needed.
My assumption is that when a person repents of the sin of unbelief that is the 180 degree turn.
As a result they will want to turn away from sins and idols and anything that blocks the relationship with God.
Which is why I said the Holy Spirit will work in us to conform us to the image of Jesus.
I gave my thoughts in another thread an hour or so back.
If a person professes faith with no desire to change then that needs to be addressed.
I hope I did not come across as a greasy gracers.
That I am certainly not.
I hope I made a bit more sense.
Always happy to discuss or clarify if needed.
The gospel is the news that we are born broken, that we are born separated from God, spiritually dead. Because of the fall we were cut off from God and being cut of from the source is death for that which was cut off. And just like the branch cut off of the tree, it will die and cannot in and of its own power do ANYTHING to save itself. We are born with only the flesh to turn to for answers, and without some kind of outside revelation, are doomed to forever seek answers for a question we don't even know. No matter which direction we turn, or how far we make it NOTHING in the flesh will ever satisfy, it can't because what we are missing cannot be found in the flesh, can not be found in all we have and are.
This does present quite a dilemma no question, but this is just our condition, just reality, not "the good news". The "good news" is that God is SO GOOD, He is SO WORTHY, just so beyond our comprehension of good, that He in His infinite wisdom, grace, mercy, justice, and perfectness loved us like this, He sent His only begotten Son, He sent His Son to fulfill the law, God stepped into His creation to show us how to live as we were created to, to teach us the truth, to teach us that God is Spirit, and is to be worshipped in spirit. That our spirits were dead, and that He was the Way to reconciliation. Then He not only laid down His perfect sinless life, the perfect Godman, sacrificing His life, laying it down, taking the full price of our sin on the cross, not only the flesh price, but every bit of the wrath that abides on our heads, the wrath I stored up sinning against a perfect God, so that God's justice would be fulfilled when He blesses us with His mercy resulting in salvation. When the sacrificed King, the one worthy that lay down His life for the unworthy, was resurrected the third day and had victory over death sealing His promises.
So now He is alive and seated at the right hand of the Father on high and ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth is His, and He calls all to come to Him. We are to see "our way" for the futile pile of filthy rags it is and turn to Him, then He saves us, He gives us life, our spirits are made alive and reconciled to His, forever changing our very natures and opening our eyes for the first time to Truth, to Him. This is just the very beginning of your life, the beginning of understanding your purpose, understanding the past and looking to the future like never before. This is rebirth and it's just the beginning.
This does present quite a dilemma no question, but this is just our condition, just reality, not "the good news". The "good news" is that God is SO GOOD, He is SO WORTHY, just so beyond our comprehension of good, that He in His infinite wisdom, grace, mercy, justice, and perfectness loved us like this, He sent His only begotten Son, He sent His Son to fulfill the law, God stepped into His creation to show us how to live as we were created to, to teach us the truth, to teach us that God is Spirit, and is to be worshipped in spirit. That our spirits were dead, and that He was the Way to reconciliation. Then He not only laid down His perfect sinless life, the perfect Godman, sacrificing His life, laying it down, taking the full price of our sin on the cross, not only the flesh price, but every bit of the wrath that abides on our heads, the wrath I stored up sinning against a perfect God, so that God's justice would be fulfilled when He blesses us with His mercy resulting in salvation. When the sacrificed King, the one worthy that lay down His life for the unworthy, was resurrected the third day and had victory over death sealing His promises.
So now He is alive and seated at the right hand of the Father on high and ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth is His, and He calls all to come to Him. We are to see "our way" for the futile pile of filthy rags it is and turn to Him, then He saves us, He gives us life, our spirits are made alive and reconciled to His, forever changing our very natures and opening our eyes for the first time to Truth, to Him. This is just the very beginning of your life, the beginning of understanding your purpose, understanding the past and looking to the future like never before. This is rebirth and it's just the beginning.
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The good new is the kind of religion. (one kind) that comes by hearing God not seen Atheism is a religion set on a certain set belief.many kinds ( no faith) that come from hearing God.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Why fatherless and widows as a summary?
If we look to the parable above. We understand it not by any work we can do but works of the unseen spirit working in us. To visit the widows and fatherless in there afflictions is a picture of the gospel It works in the widowed when a husband or wife passes to represent we were once widows without Christ and fatherless with no father in heavenas special care to his children . Mix the gospel they hunger for to share and feed them the bread necessary of this life the food to the poor in spirit .... help to heal those who have no power, widows and children. . as sign of mixing faith in what a person does (Hebrew4:1-4) The answer given to John the Baptist doubt... the answer as the food given to John to continue doing the will till death.
Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Why fatherless and widows as a summary?
If we look to the parable above. We understand it not by any work we can do but works of the unseen spirit working in us. To visit the widows and fatherless in there afflictions is a picture of the gospel It works in the widowed when a husband or wife passes to represent we were once widows without Christ and fatherless with no father in heavenas special care to his children . Mix the gospel they hunger for to share and feed them the bread necessary of this life the food to the poor in spirit .... help to heal those who have no power, widows and children. . as sign of mixing faith in what a person does (Hebrew4:1-4) The answer given to John the Baptist doubt... the answer as the food given to John to continue doing the will till death.
Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
This may sound pedantic but I would like to bring clarity.
Within a christian context as we speak believer to believer our study of theology is the study of God.
In the wider social context, theology is the study of belief systems and the ideas around them.
So a theologian can be an atheist, because the language and academic definitions do not rely upon
personal faith.
For me only a real theologian in a christian sense can exist because they have a living relationship
with the Father through the Son.
Within a christian context as we speak believer to believer our study of theology is the study of God.
In the wider social context, theology is the study of belief systems and the ideas around them.
So a theologian can be an atheist, because the language and academic definitions do not rely upon
personal faith.
For me only a real theologian in a christian sense can exist because they have a living relationship
with the Father through the Son.
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