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Well the translation of Joel 2 you are using is not as good as it should be. I guess it's a newer translation and it is just a little off.
Joel 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel is prophesying to Israel. So in context the prophesy is to and about Israel first.
It does say God will pour out His Holy Spirit upon all flesh. This is teaching that all men can be saved both Jew and Gentile. It further teaches that the sons and daughters of Israel will dream dreams and have visions. There is no indication that all men will dream dreams and have vision. The servants and handmaids again refers to Israel and not to the Gentile nations.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Joel 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel is prophesying to Israel. So in context the prophesy is to and about Israel first.
It does say God will pour out His Holy Spirit upon all flesh. This is teaching that all men can be saved both Jew and Gentile. It further teaches that the sons and daughters of Israel will dream dreams and have visions. There is no indication that all men will dream dreams and have vision. The servants and handmaids again refers to Israel and not to the Gentile nations.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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It's you who is resorting to assumptions here and most likely in an effort to accommodate a preconceived idea or theology. Once again, in Acts 10:43-44, we read - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
*So the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message and not on those who heard nothing at all. These Gentiles heard the message in verse 43 and believed, received the Holy Spirit and were saved before water baptism. Acts 10:44 says, while he was "still speaking," which means, he already started talking and said, "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM RECEIVES REMISSION OF SINS." So I don't have to assume anything and lost unbelievers do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Before these Gentiles were water baptized they "received" the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47). In view of this, there are two passages that clearly demonstrate they were saved. They are Romans 8:9 and 1 John 4:13.
Romans 8:9 - However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If one has received the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.
1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. Because they received the gift of the Holy Spirit, these Gentiles abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized. *There are no examples of lost unbelievers receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament and also, spiritual gifts are ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12)
The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and a part of the body of Christ before water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of these Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. Praise God!
*So the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message and not on those who heard nothing at all. These Gentiles heard the message in verse 43 and believed, received the Holy Spirit and were saved before water baptism. Acts 10:44 says, while he was "still speaking," which means, he already started talking and said, "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM RECEIVES REMISSION OF SINS." So I don't have to assume anything and lost unbelievers do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Before these Gentiles were water baptized they "received" the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47). In view of this, there are two passages that clearly demonstrate they were saved. They are Romans 8:9 and 1 John 4:13.
Romans 8:9 - However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If one has received the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.
1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. Because they received the gift of the Holy Spirit, these Gentiles abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized. *There are no examples of lost unbelievers receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament and also, spiritual gifts are ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12)
The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and a part of the body of Christ before water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of these Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. Praise God!
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It's you who is resorting to assumptions here and most likely in an effort to accommodate a preconceived idea or theology. Once again, in Acts 10:43-44, we read - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
*So the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message and not on those who heard nothing at all. These Gentiles heard the message in verse 43 and believed, received the Holy Spirit and were saved before water baptism. Acts 10:44 says, while he was "still speaking," which means, he already started talking and said, "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM RECEIVES REMISSION OF SINS." So I don't have to assume anything and lost unbelievers do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Before these Gentiles were water baptized they "received" the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47). In view of this, there are two passages that clearly demonstrate they were saved. They are Romans 8:9 and 1 John 4:13.
Romans 8:9 - However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If one has received the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.
1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. Because they received the gift of the Holy Spirit, these Gentiles abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized. *There are no examples of lost unbelievers receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament and also, spiritual gifts are ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12)
The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and a part of the body of Christ before water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of these Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. Praise God!
*So the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message and not on those who heard nothing at all. These Gentiles heard the message in verse 43 and believed, received the Holy Spirit and were saved before water baptism. Acts 10:44 says, while he was "still speaking," which means, he already started talking and said, "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM RECEIVES REMISSION OF SINS." So I don't have to assume anything and lost unbelievers do not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Before these Gentiles were water baptized they "received" the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47). In view of this, there are two passages that clearly demonstrate they were saved. They are Romans 8:9 and 1 John 4:13.
Romans 8:9 - However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If one has received the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.
1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. Because they received the gift of the Holy Spirit, these Gentiles abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized. *There are no examples of lost unbelievers receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament and also, spiritual gifts are ONLY for the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12)
The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and a part of the body of Christ before water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of these Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. Praise God!
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awww
look what you've done to this poor cat
look what you've done to this poor cat
The ones that look cross eyed, cockeyed seem to by pass the understanding for some unknown reason or "unknown tongue"
Do you need the color Code" to make sure just who it is that yet for all that they still refuse to belive God.. . through any manner of prophecy to include, tongues .
Who are those in orange. The ones that fall backward to verify confirm the law?
What's your take ? What does the sign confirm?
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get off it
you are ridiculous and you can't dismiss anyone
in fact, you said you said you would ignore me then you make ridiculous excuses for responding by saying someone told you what I wrote or you just looked to see what I said or some other nonsense. you can't help yourself
you are not the judge of anyone's 'fruit'. you speak in cliche and you don't know what you are talking about
have whatever day you choose because you are choosing to try and make others leave this thread so you can continue to spout your nonsense unabated
you have to have an audience and I guess this is where you get it
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Gifts of the Spirit - What Are They?
Gifts of the Spirit are special abilities provided by the Holy Spirit to Christians for the purpose of building up the body of Christ. The list of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 includes wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. Similar lists appear in Ephesians 4:7-13 and Romans 12:3-8. The gifts of the Spirit are simply God enabling believers to do what He has called us to do. 2 Peter 1:3 says, "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness." The gifts of the Holy Spirit are part of the "everything we need" to fulfill His purposes for our lives.
don't let anyone fool you
every person I know who knows the spiritual gifts are real, believes that only the blood of Christ shed for us, cleanses us from sin
there is no other way to God but through our Lord Jesus Christ
a few people here are claiming we have more than one gospel and this is a disgusting lie and they know it
certain people try to spread false information to have things the way they want. they have a deep need to be in control and when they cannot get what they want, they stoop to lying and spreading false information and accusations
this is being done in this thread
there is but one gospel and myself and others here have never said anything else
don't give credence to the false accusation that we believe more than one gospel
when people lie like that, you have to wonder what spirit is behind that lie
certainly not the Holy Spirit because He does not lie
Gifts of the Spirit are special abilities provided by the Holy Spirit to Christians for the purpose of building up the body of Christ. The list of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 includes wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. Similar lists appear in Ephesians 4:7-13 and Romans 12:3-8. The gifts of the Spirit are simply God enabling believers to do what He has called us to do. 2 Peter 1:3 says, "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness." The gifts of the Holy Spirit are part of the "everything we need" to fulfill His purposes for our lives.
don't let anyone fool you
every person I know who knows the spiritual gifts are real, believes that only the blood of Christ shed for us, cleanses us from sin
there is no other way to God but through our Lord Jesus Christ
a few people here are claiming we have more than one gospel and this is a disgusting lie and they know it
certain people try to spread false information to have things the way they want. they have a deep need to be in control and when they cannot get what they want, they stoop to lying and spreading false information and accusations
this is being done in this thread
there is but one gospel and myself and others here have never said anything else
don't give credence to the false accusation that we believe more than one gospel
when people lie like that, you have to wonder what spirit is behind that lie
certainly not the Holy Spirit because He does not lie
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Gifts of the Spirit - What Are the Gifts Used For?
The Apostle Paul indicated that the gifts of the Spirit are equally valid, but not equally valuable. Their value is determined by their worth to the church. In dealing with this matter, he used the analogy of the human body. All members of the body have functions, Paul declared, but some are more important than others (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). The service of each Christian should be in proportion to the gifts which he possesses (1 Corinthians 12-14). All believers, as members of the body of Christ, must be serving together in order for the body to be fully-functional. That is why a church needs pastors, teachers, helpers, servants, administrators, those with great faith, etc. All of the gifts of the Holy Spirit working together are needed to produce the full potential of the church. Since the gifts of the Spirit are gifts of grace, their use must be controlled by the rule of love - the greatest of all the gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 13).
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The Apostle Paul indicated that the gifts of the Spirit are equally valid, but not equally valuable. Their value is determined by their worth to the church. In dealing with this matter, he used the analogy of the human body. All members of the body have functions, Paul declared, but some are more important than others (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). The service of each Christian should be in proportion to the gifts which he possesses (1 Corinthians 12-14). All believers, as members of the body of Christ, must be serving together in order for the body to be fully-functional. That is why a church needs pastors, teachers, helpers, servants, administrators, those with great faith, etc. All of the gifts of the Holy Spirit working together are needed to produce the full potential of the church. Since the gifts of the Spirit are gifts of grace, their use must be controlled by the rule of love - the greatest of all the gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 13).
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The measure by which you carelessly judge others you will be judged by as well.
Pouring out the Holy Spirit on all flesh is God bringing to Christ all peoples not just Israel. Jesus came to Israel first then to the Gentiles when Israel rejected Him.
You are so desperate to make your interpretation correct that you have resorted to less than noble tactics to accomplish your objective.
Jesus said of the gospel that some will turn their back and return to the darkness. You do not need to be from Iran to covet darkness over the light of the gospel. John3:19-20. The word of God converts the souls of even folks in Iran. The souls in the USA need to hear the gospel with the same urgency as the souls in Iran.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Pouring out the Holy Spirit on all flesh is God bringing to Christ all peoples not just Israel. Jesus came to Israel first then to the Gentiles when Israel rejected Him.
You are so desperate to make your interpretation correct that you have resorted to less than noble tactics to accomplish your objective.
Jesus said of the gospel that some will turn their back and return to the darkness. You do not need to be from Iran to covet darkness over the light of the gospel. John3:19-20. The word of God converts the souls of even folks in Iran. The souls in the USA need to hear the gospel with the same urgency as the souls in Iran.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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The Holy Spirit in fact is the agent that leads men to Christ confirming his unseen call of faith ..he is already aware they can make noises and get wet.
No such thing as a "sign gift" those two words with are never used to represent a one doctrine .. Spiritual gifts "not seen". . Yes. Signs. . . Yes .
It seems you forget we walk by faith the unseen eternal .
Its says when Peter was speaking the Holy Spirit was teaching bringing new prophecy (HIS TEACHING TOOL).. They both heard the gospel in the name of Christ .The baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Not to be confused with the desire to become a priest in the priesthood of believers after the new testament manner., The foundation for water baptism (Exodus 40:12. . . John3:25)
If they were amongst those who did not speak the language of Peter (each other) . They were both given the hearing of faith so that they could both. Not one makes a unknow sound than the other repeats ugh so that they could have a faithful conversation .
The idea of trying to make it into a signs and wonders or sign as a wonderment gospel like those of the faithless Jews. It gives rise to the understand to their three rings circus. Like for instance.... "Lets make Jesus into a circus seal to confirm we walk by sight refusing to hear the spiritual unseen understanding. .
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Rather than; That we might believe having been given the faith of Christ to in order to believe God..
John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth "not for them that believe not", but for them which believe.
I would think if you are looking for evidence of hearing God. Simply believe as he gives the faith to make it possible. There are a series of metaphors used to show that in Mark 16 .
looking for a sign to follow, means believing before. Its one of exist signs that follow after the unseen experiences of believing . Like... thankyou you have just left your experience in Chicago. . . hope you took many snap shots....Milwaukee is 42 mile ahead .
Its not a sign a person can seen with their eyes .But is a sign of the gospel showing it was preached .
Spiritual unseen matters. There value is determined by the word of God not the separate sects. They all hold the same importance ."hearing God".
Look to the foundation in the Old testament then after finding out what tongues are and why the sign of God mocking. Then you can find what the law confirms something?
No short cuts as in cutting off the foundation.. Why do you think... "yet for all that they refuse to hear" God?
Clue. . . . it has something to do with hearing or not hearing prophecy?
Look to the foundation in the Old testament then after finding out what tongues are and why the sign of God mocking. Then you can find what the law confirms something?
No short cuts as in cutting off the foundation.. Why do you think... "yet for all that they refuse to hear" God?
Clue. . . . it has something to do with hearing or not hearing prophecy?
The new tongue is the gospel. No difference than saying they have believed and are equipped to go out and make disciples of men with the gospel . It the new tongue (gospel) that can drive out demons . . . .the kind the disciples could not drive out.
It is one of the many metaphors as "one sign" made up of many that follows those who do believe.
it is Not today; I will drink poison as one sign sought after, and tomorrow I will make noises without understanding .and the next day I will seek after another sign.... a walk in the cemetery and raise the dead and the next day heal a room full in the local hospital .
Again its the new tongue called gospel that can .Making noise without understanding. The demons are used to that .It ould not cast out any thing other than silence.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.And these signs shall follow "them that believe"; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mark 16:16-17
It is one of the many metaphors as "one sign" made up of many that follows those who do believe.
it is Not today; I will drink poison as one sign sought after, and tomorrow I will make noises without understanding .and the next day I will seek after another sign.... a walk in the cemetery and raise the dead and the next day heal a room full in the local hospital .
Again its the new tongue called gospel that can .Making noise without understanding. The demons are used to that .It ould not cast out any thing other than silence.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.And these signs shall follow "them that believe"; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mark 16:16-17
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get off it
you are ridiculous and you can't dismiss anyone
in fact, you said you said you would ignore me then you make ridiculous excuses for responding by saying someone told you what I wrote or you just looked to see what I said or some other nonsense. you can't help yourself
you are not the judge of anyone's 'fruit'. you speak in cliche and you don't know what you are talking about
have whatever day you choose because you are choosing to try and make others leave this thread so you can continue to spout your nonsense unabated
you have to have an audience and I guess this is where you get it
you are ridiculous and you can't dismiss anyone
in fact, you said you said you would ignore me then you make ridiculous excuses for responding by saying someone told you what I wrote or you just looked to see what I said or some other nonsense. you can't help yourself
you are not the judge of anyone's 'fruit'. you speak in cliche and you don't know what you are talking about
have whatever day you choose because you are choosing to try and make others leave this thread so you can continue to spout your nonsense unabated
you have to have an audience and I guess this is where you get it
Good day maam. Your attacks are meaningless because they are baseless.
You can not even admit what started this conversation was something which stones said about myself and others which was not true. And what I was trying to correct.
Like I said. Reality means nothing to you when it comes to you defending your belief in gifting, anyone who disagrees gets attacked, This has been proven time and time again, I am sick of your attacks.. So I will let you go.
Once more. Good day ma’am. Think whatever you want,
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well let's see
60, 457 posts outta you?
LOL! we sure do know what you are thinking!
stones said nothing about you and most people don't. you misinterpret and twist what people say
it's actually all about you wanting to control the conversation and getting very angry when people say what they want to say and you cannot stop them
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the Bible teaches on the gifts
so if someone thinks people should not discuss them, you have to ask why that is
Gifts of the Spirit - What Are the Gifts Used For?
The Apostle Paul indicated that the gifts of the Spirit are equally valid, but not equally valuable. Their value is determined by their worth to the church. In dealing with this matter, he used the analogy of the human body. All members of the body have functions, Paul declared, but some are more important than others (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). The service of each Christian should be in proportion to the gifts which he possesses (1 Corinthians 12-14). All believers, as members of the body of Christ, must be serving together in order for the body to be fully-functional. That is why a church needs pastors, teachers, helpers, servants, administrators, those with great faith, etc. All of the gifts of the Holy Spirit working together are needed to produce the full potential of the church. Since the gifts of the Spirit are gifts of grace, their use must be controlled by the rule of love - the greatest of all the gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 13).
so if someone thinks people should not discuss them, you have to ask why that is
Gifts of the Spirit - What Are the Gifts Used For?
The Apostle Paul indicated that the gifts of the Spirit are equally valid, but not equally valuable. Their value is determined by their worth to the church. In dealing with this matter, he used the analogy of the human body. All members of the body have functions, Paul declared, but some are more important than others (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). The service of each Christian should be in proportion to the gifts which he possesses (1 Corinthians 12-14). All believers, as members of the body of Christ, must be serving together in order for the body to be fully-functional. That is why a church needs pastors, teachers, helpers, servants, administrators, those with great faith, etc. All of the gifts of the Holy Spirit working together are needed to produce the full potential of the church. Since the gifts of the Spirit are gifts of grace, their use must be controlled by the rule of love - the greatest of all the gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 13).
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I am amazed at how people can not hear themselves talk and see what kind of image they are leaving for others to see.
One thing which is true, the people that matter KNOW what started the discussion about what Stones said, not only this, Most actually know what this thread is about. While some still seem to think it is about defending tongues.
Well it just shows once again their true fruit. A fruit inspector does not have to inspect to see what kind of fruit it is.
Defend at all costs. No matter what.
One thing which is true, the people that matter KNOW what started the discussion about what Stones said, not only this, Most actually know what this thread is about. While some still seem to think it is about defending tongues.
Well it just shows once again their true fruit. A fruit inspector does not have to inspect to see what kind of fruit it is.
Defend at all costs. No matter what.
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Once again, This thread is NOT ABOUT TONGUES? it is about the FALSE GOSPEL of SALVATION by water baptism and speaking in tongues. So continueing to support this tongues aspect is in reality defending this position that we are saved by these works. Which supposedly the people defending it claim to reject.. Yet how can anyone believe it when they CONTINUE to defend it?
Some people can not get out of their own way to realize this.
Some people can not get out of their own way to realize this.
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the irony is lost on you
however, this is not about Stones. it is about how angry you get when people have a mind of their own
relax
it is not going to change. everyone in this forum has an opinion about something or someone
why are you so hung up on tongues? those who speak in tongues don't answer to you and if you don't care to, that is also your choice
get over it. you can't change it
you cannot control others. possibly try to control what you say to others. that would help
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