Born Again Speaking in Tongues

[stonesoffire]

The comment is mine.

I choose to accept the scriptures for what they say. No interpretation is needed. Peter's instructions were consistently followed and believers were added to the church daily. (Acts 2:41-42, 46-47) And, God continues to add to the church in the same fashion.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:41-42

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:46-47

Sister

I agree with you that baptism in water should be part of our life in the Spirit. I agree that it should be declared as in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to us English speaking people.

But, if this understanding isn’t received by all, yet the hearts of those who believe baptism in water is done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and we both are born from above, then the hearts are united in Spirit and we are one in His body.

To take a stance that one is error and would cause a difference in our salvation, is to make water baptism law. That ended with John. Now, it’s the heart. And the circumcised heart of flesh. Here is our purification and this is achieved through precious blood. The blood and body of Jesus is life giving. There’s no disease in His blood, only life. And we see that the atonement is what gives freedom or remission from our sin nature and the actions of it. The Cross alone sister puts it to death.

The serpent on the pole of the OT shows this is revelation truth. The serpents head has been crushed and we are released from that dominion.

So what ritual is really important? Would it not be communion? Communion makes us one in and with Jesus, and with one another.

If we make water baptism law, then the truth would be we all must be baptized in the Jordan river and in the name of Yeshua ha Messhiah.

Doctrines divide. The circumcised heart and the body of Christ (anointing) makes us one. Blood sets us free, and we walk in His resurrection life. Another revelation truth. 😍

 

[garee]

It’s too bad Garee that you don’t know, and never will in the sin of unbelief.

Unbelief (no faith) of what and who?. Your understanding? The faith of God? Or the faith of a unknown wonderment of experience?

The Son of man, Jesus in Mathew 4 did not give into mysticism . With every new experience of what some call out of the body or near death, unknow tongue or falling backward.. as a wonderment. The Father not seen would give Jesus words to say. . . . as it is written . Three time to s denote the end of the matter. The it in regard to as it is written it which represents the unseen it is our interpreting power that we have in us. ? It easy when yoked remember he also beings to our minds the things he has taught us. He is not finished with us yet

2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Many fail to realize that the Apostle Paul followed the plan of salvation as spoken of by Jesus and confirmed by His disciples beginning in Jerusalem. (Acts 9:17; 22:16, 1 Cor. 14:18)

Notice in Hebrews below, Paul said that salvation was first spoken of by the Lord and was confirmed, to him (Paul) and others, by them that heard Jesus; the “them” that heard Jesus, were His disciples:

“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” Heb 2:3-4

Salvation spoken of by Jesus:

• Jesus said the salvation message would begin in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)
• Jesus gives Peter the key(s) to the kingdom. (Matt 16:18-19)
• Jesus says that he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:16, John 7:38)
• Jesus says repentance and remission of sins would be preached in His name BEGINNING in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)
• Jesus Himself declared that he who believes on Jesus, as the scripture says, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water; referring to the Holy Ghost. (John 7:38-39)

After Jesus resurrection, He taught and provided Kingdom information to His disciples for 40 days prior to ascending. (Acts 1:3) Surely the disciples were well aware of what was required concerning salvation after Jesus’ extensive teaching pertaining to the kingdom.

Confirmation of salvation as spoken of by Jesus:

• After Jesus ascension, the disciples traveled to Jerusalem. (Acts 1:12) If you recall, Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached first in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)
• While gathered in the upper room waiting for the promise spoken of by Jesus, (Luke 24:49) the Holy Ghost fills everyone in the room and they speak in tongues. (Acts 2:2-4)
• Unbelievers doubt and mock what they clearly see and hear. (Acts 2:12-13)
• Peter (the one who was given the keys) immediately stands and addresses the unbelievers. (Acts 2:14) He preaches to those present. (Acts 2:15-36) The unbelievers are upset when they realize the truth; Jesus is the promised Messiah. And they ask what is required of them; WHAT MUST WE DO? (Acts 2:37)

Peter’s response “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Notice how Peter’s words confirm the teachings spoken of by Jesus Christ:

• Repent (Luke 24:47)
• Be water baptized (Mark 16:16) In the name of Jesus for the remission of sin (Luke 24:47)
• Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (John 7:38

Eternity is a long, long time. Everyone must seek out and adhere to the word of God regardless of what worldwide denominations teach. Jesus clearly says: “…the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

Some are so desperate to make paul preach repentance from baptism. They fail to realise

1. Everytime Paul gave th egospel wherever he went in the book of Acts, He never mentioned baptism as a means of salvation.
2. In NONE of his epistles. When he speaks of how one has been granted salvation did he mention baptism as a means.

This persons example and proof is offset by the facts that paul never once taught immersion by baptism (in water) (Paul did however, mention baptism of the spirit in quite a few of his writings.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith does come by hearing. One's faith is then evidenced by the obedience to what is seen in the word:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:16-17

The process of faith is required after seeing the salvation message presented on the Day of Pentecost. Everyone must believe in Jesus, repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. These instructions are clearly seen in the word.

Faith comes by hearing, Not by being baptised

Salvation comes by Faith, Not by works

Baptism is no where to be found in the equation. Your trying to replace the baptism of God with the baptism of men, thats blasphemy!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which website did you copy and paste this information from?

Acts 2:38 remains a stumbling block for Oneness Pentecostals, as it does for Roman Catholics, Mormons and other works-salvationists as well. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47). In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

Regardless of what false religions and cults teach. Jesus clearly says: “…the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48) -- *John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

They bas their entire eternity on one or two verses.. Yet for some reason are oblivious to how dangerous this is..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are entitled to choose which scriptures you will believe. I choose to believe them all.

No you don’t

You chose to believe the few you have twisted and distorted out of context. And reject the rest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The comment is mine.

I choose to accept the scriptures for what they say. No interpretation is needed. Peter's instructions were consistently followed and believers were added to the church daily. (Acts 2:41-42, 46-47) And, God continues to add to the church in the same fashion.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:41-42

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:46-47

If you did, You would not say peter contradicted both Christ and paul.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He who believes in Jesus will be obedient to His word.

Yep. In many areas. Not just one

And they were saved the moment they had faith, All the works FOLLOW salvation, not precede it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't see any response to the scripture proofs given.
As usual your tactic is to belittle and deviate from the points given.
I choose to accept God's word for what it says.

Believe what you want,

But you do not believe in Gods word. Period.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I missed this earlier.

I understood your question to be is a person made alive in Christ or just born again but not yet baptized in Holy Spirit, a spiritual person.

I said no because it’s the baptism in Spirit that empowers us to walk and live as Spirit.

If your not baptised in the spirit. Your dead, and not saved sis.

You can not be granted remission of sin apart from being baptized by God into his death, burial body and cross.

Until then, Your dead in your sin.

The ANOINTING of the spirit (the HS coming inside us, just as he came on Christ at his baptism) as a symbol of what happens to us when we are spiritually baptized into him, is what gives us the power to walk.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus' question was directed to the Pharisees who refused to accept John's God-inspired message. Water baptism as well as the infilling of the Holy Ghost were both commands that came directly from heaven. The following scripture concerning Pharisees rejecting the counsel of God says it all:

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." Luke 7:29-30

If water baptism could clean a person from their sin

Jesus wasted his time going to the cross.

Think on that..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture includes God-given instructions that all must follow. No one can discard scriptures just because they do not fit one's perception of the truth.

Yes it does

Believe in the name of jesus and you will be saved, the promise is to you and your household

Believe in your heart and call out his name, and you will be saved.

Believe in the name of Jesus christ, and you will have eternal life

Eat the bread which was sent from heaven, and you will never die, lve forever, have eternal life, and be raised on he last day.

The bible is clear. All through the NT how one is saved.

 

[PennEd]

If your not baptised in the spirit. Your dead, and not saved sis.

You can not be granted remission of sin apart from being baptized by God into his death, burial body and cross.

Until then, Your dead in your sin.

The ANOINTING of the spirit (the HS coming inside us, just as he came on Christ at his baptism) as a symbol of what happens to us when we are spiritually baptized into him, is what gives us the power to walk.

I mean when you think about it, it really IS a false Gospel!

IMPOSSIBLE to get past THIS with the double Salvation stuff being promoted here:

Romans 8:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone DOES NOT have the Spirit of Christ, he is NOT His.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God will give the increase to those who pursue Him with an open heart.

Only if your born again, If your not saved, God will give you nothing until you repent and give it all to him. The phaarisees refused to do this, because they wanted their religious deeds to account for salvation.

You are no different than they are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I mean when you think about it, it really IS a false Gospel!

IMPOSSIBLE to get past THIS with the double Salvation stuff being promoted here:

Romans 8:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone DOES NOT have the Spirit of Christ, he is NOT His.

Scripture is clear..

People are too focused on doctrines, not the word.. And they can not see past what they have been taught, it is sad. Even sadder, than they will be held responsive for what they believe, not what they were taught, although the men will have be held accountable in a greater way, they will also. Because they refused to test.

 

[garee]

But, if this understanding isn’t received by all, yet the hearts of those who believe baptism in water is done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and we both are born from above, then the hearts are united in Spirit and we are one in His body.

Yes as new creatures we are His bride . He is our Spirit as source of all life typified as our husband Christ. . The creation could never become the Faithful Creator. The Holy Spirt has no beginning or end. God is not a man as us. We are united by His spirit not us. the flesh profits for nothing.

The Bible speak of another ceremonial foundation found in the Old testament having to do with the priesthood of believers .Ceremonies are used to reveal the unseen work of the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that did follow. The graves were opened, opening the gate of the first ressurection of believers .

we must look to the foundation of the doctrines of God. Which one is the good ground foundation of the doctrine. Like David mentioned in Psalm" what can the believer do if the foundation of the doctrine are destroyed. How could His word reveal His gospel without the foundation ?

Can't serve two infallible masters. It either done in the name or power of authority in respect to God not seen the eternal One or water seen the temporal.

Which one foundation serves as the interpretation master. . . the things of men seen, or that of God not seen?

I say water as that seen the temporal serve the things seen not the eternal

WWJD What would Jesus do as the Son of man? Serve the flesh he said does not profit?

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[BillG]

Even Wikipedia spots Oneness Pentecostal heresy. - Besides their beliefs about the Godhead, Oneness Pentecostals differ significantly from most other Pentecostal and Evangelical Christians in matters of soteriology. Whereas most Pentecostals and evangelicals believe that only faith in Jesus Christ is the essential element for salvation, Oneness Pentecostalism defines salvation as repentance, full-submersion water baptism (in the name of Jesus Christ) and baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism

It's not hard to find websites that point out the heretical teachings of Oneness Pentecostals. - The truth is, Oneness Pentecostals have an anti-Trinitarian view of God, an unbiblical doctrine of Jesus Christ, and unbiblical requirements for salvation (speaking in tongues, water baptism in “Jesus’ name,” and a legalistic moral code). Thus, those churches or preachers adhering to its basic doctrines cannot be regarded as authentically Christian. Any group or church that claims to be Christian yet deviates at any point from historical Christian faith is, by definition, a cult. Oneness Pentecostal churches are, therefore, cultic in nature and outside the theological parameters of historic Christianity. - http://www.marketfaith.org/the-hidden-cult-of-oneness-pentecostalism/

Oneness Pentecostalism: (Jesus Only) A heresy that emerged from the mainstream Pentecostal movement during the years 1914–1916. Unlike traditional Pentecostals, "Oneness" followers deny the doctrine of the Trinity in favor of a view similar to Monarchianism. In addition to this heresy, most Oneness Pentecostal organizations also teach that speaking in tongues, baptism (in Jesus' name only), and maintaining various moral "standards" are necessary for salvation. - https://www.watchman.org/index-of-cults-and-religions/#O

https://carm.org/religious-movements/oneness-pentecostal/what-does-oneness-pentecostal-teach

View attachment 200335

It's amazing how such doctrines can truly mess up a genuine believers walk.
I fell foul of the above.

I used to go to an Anglican Church.
I wanted to be baptised, this denomination does it be sprinkling on the head.
Before they did that that you have to say out loud why.
They asked you questions and you answered.

This was my confession.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

A few years later I ended up in a Baptist Church.
That was the first time I heard tongues and to be honest it frightened me and I thought it was evil.

You don't hear tongues in an Anglican Church.

With regards baptism I was asked if I was. I said yes.
When they asked by immersion I said no.
Then I was told that was not baptism and I need to be fully immersed.
They did not say that I was not saved because I had not been.
But the fact is for me it negated my confession of faith that I had made.
The irony is that I had to make the same confession with full immersion as with a sprinkling.

That really messed with my mind, my first confession was irrelevant and therefore by inference I was not saved.

I went to a big Christian gathering of a few thousand people with this church.
I was struggling at the time.
I went forward for prayer.

The first question was "Do you speak in tongues?
I said no I do not.
I was then told "That's evidence you are not saved, and why you are struggling would you like to pray in tongues?

I said how can I do this.
They gave me the following to say (and this is true)

"She will come on a Honda"
Say it slowly and then start to speed it up.
Then they walked away, practice it at home then your mind will get used to it then you will get real tongues.

Boy did that cause me an issue for many many years.

For me with regards to tongues and baptism.

Neither save a person.

It's confession and belief that save and wanting to be like Jesus.
The remission of sins comes through the death and resurrection of Jesus and being United with him through the Holy Spirit.

Therefore I always encourage people who come to Jesus to be baptised.
The problem is that the church puts lots of pressure on people who want to be baptized that causes them to shrink back.

With regards to tongues.
Well I don't speak in tongues. I don't get it.
Is it relevant for today?

I have to be honest and say yes I think it is.
I don't speak in tongues yet my wife does.
She speaks tongues when we are praying for others, prays in tongues in church underneath her breath.

It's a gift, it's one that I do not have.
It's not a right of passage for evidence of salvation or a means to salvation.
I have gifts that I seek after and have.

Did Jesus ever speak in tongues?
Was he baptised to be saved?

 

[BillG]

Even Wikipedia spots Oneness Pentecostal heresy. - Besides their beliefs about the Godhead, Oneness Pentecostals differ significantly from most other Pentecostal and Evangelical Christians in matters of soteriology. Whereas most Pentecostals and evangelicals believe that only faith in Jesus Christ is the essential element for salvation, Oneness Pentecostalism defines salvation as repentance, full-submersion water baptism (in the name of Jesus Christ) and baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism

It's not hard to find websites that point out the heretical teachings of Oneness Pentecostals. - The truth is, Oneness Pentecostals have an anti-Trinitarian view of God, an unbiblical doctrine of Jesus Christ, and unbiblical requirements for salvation (speaking in tongues, water baptism in “Jesus’ name,” and a legalistic moral code). Thus, those churches or preachers adhering to its basic doctrines cannot be regarded as authentically Christian. Any group or church that claims to be Christian yet deviates at any point from historical Christian faith is, by definition, a cult. Oneness Pentecostal churches are, therefore, cultic in nature and outside the theological parameters of historic Christianity. - http://www.marketfaith.org/the-hidden-cult-of-oneness-pentecostalism/

Oneness Pentecostalism: (Jesus Only) A heresy that emerged from the mainstream Pentecostal movement during the years 1914–1916. Unlike traditional Pentecostals, "Oneness" followers deny the doctrine of the Trinity in favor of a view similar to Monarchianism. In addition to this heresy, most Oneness Pentecostal organizations also teach that speaking in tongues, baptism (in Jesus' name only), and maintaining various moral "standards" are necessary for salvation. - https://www.watchman.org/index-of-cults-and-religions/#O

https://carm.org/religious-movements/oneness-pentecostal/what-does-oneness-pentecostal-teach

View attachment 200335

It's amazing how such doctrines can truly mess up a genuine believers walk.
I fell foul of the above.

I used to go to an Anglican Church.
I wanted to be baptised, this denomination does it be sprinkling on the head.
Before they did that that you have to say out loud why.
They asked you questions and you answered.

This was my confession.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

A few years later I ended up in a Baptist Church.
That was the first time I heard tongues and to be honest it frightened me and I thought it was evil.

You don't hear tongues in an Anglican Church.

With regards baptism I was asked if I was. I said yes.
When they asked by immersion I said no.
Then I was told that was not baptism and I need to be fully immersed.
They did not say that I was not saved because I had not been.
But the fact is for me it negated my confession of faith that I had made.
The irony is that I had to make the same confession with full immersion as with a sprinkling.

That really messed with my mind, my first confession was irrelevant and therefore by inference I was not saved.

I went to a big Christian gathering of a few thousand people with this church.
I was struggling at the time.
I went forward for prayer.

The first question was "Do you speak in tongues?
I said no I do not.
I was then told "That's evidence you are not saved, and why you are struggling would you like to pray in tongues?

I said how can I do this.
They gave me the following to say (and this is true)

"She will come on a Honda"
Say it slowly and then start to speed it up.
Then they walked away, practice it at home then your mind will get used to it then you will get real tongues.

Boy did that cause me an issue for many many years.

For me with regards to tongues and baptism.

Neither save a person.

It's confession and belief that save and wanting to be like Jesus.
The remission of sins comes through the death and resurrection of Jesus and being United with him through the Holy Spirit.

Therefore I always encourage people who come to Jesus to be baptised.
The problem is that the church puts lots of pressure on people who want to be baptized that causes them to shrink back.

With regards to tongues.
Well I don't speak in tongues. I don't get it.
Is it relevant for today?

I have to be honest and say yes I think it is.
I don't speak in tongues yet my wife does.
She speaks tongues when we are praying for others, prays in tongues in church underneath her breath.

It's a gift, it's one that I do not have.
It's not a right of passage for evidence of salvation or a means to salvation.
I have gifts that I seek after and have.

Did Jesus ever speak in tongues?
Was he baptised to be saved?

 

[BillG]

Waggles,

Hi.

Why the sad face and the red x

Not angry or upset
Just asking.

Bill.

 

[BillG]

Not sure why my post was double posted.

Sorry about that.