"... and the Word was GOd. ..."

jaybird88 · Jun 25, 2019

Mark 12:29
Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

strange that the Shema, which was so important to Jesus and all the Jews, the proclamation that emphasizes the Most High is ONE and no more than ONE, does not seem that important in the faith today. why do Christians not proclaim this many times a day like the Jews did in the days of Jesus.
and what does the Shema mean anyway, one? one opposed to what exactly?

RevAutrey · Jun 25, 2019

The mystery is this:

We must understand that God in his manifested state, especially in the Gospels, always presents himself to as one person, just as we are one person. This has to be true because we are made in his image and likeness, and each of us is one person. And as you know all persons have names, and so it is with God. In fact, God has three names.

So what we see in the Gospels is God calling himself the Father as he decides his affairs: "Only the Father knows." And as he inspires us to believe in himself he uses the name Holy Spirit: "Receive ye the Holy Spirit." But in all cases as he speaks to us he calls himself Jesus: "I Jesus say unto you."

This should not seem strange to us because almost every person we know has three names. And we have no problem understanding who they are talking about when they use one of there other names. And so it should be with God. It's just that with God he speaks to us in symbolic language and we don't understand that he is speaking about himself.

See, with God it's not the dividing of himself into three parts, as many people believe. It's name recognition. It's by what name he speaks to us!

What I am saying is, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are all references to him as the brings us to salvation.

Rev Autrey

Deuteronomy · Jun 25, 2019

jaybird88 said:

Hi Jaybird, the Father wasn't speaking to Himself, He was speaking with the other Members of the Godhead (God the Son and God the Holy Spirit).

Genesis 1

26 God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness........."

27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

The Bible seems clear about this (please take particular note of what is highlighted in bold above).

Just to be clear about this as well, you are, of course, free to believe whatever you'd like to believe. I have chosen to believe what the historic Christian church teaches/has taught for millennia now, not simply because the church teaches it, but because after a long and fairly thorough study, it checks out Biblically. IOW, I, like millions of others before me, confirmed the truth of the church's Trinity doctrine by using the Bible.

You asked two more questions, but I've gotta run right now, so I'll need to address those later today (Dv).

~Deut

Waggles · Jun 25, 2019

RevAutrey said:

Jesus is referred to in the OT in many various ways - not just as LORD - Yahweh - I AM

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee [Jesus], to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Exodus 23:
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
2Samuel 7:13
And the LORD said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in
thine heart.
1Kings 8:18
Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of
my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:
1Kings 9:7
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place
incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 1:11
And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
Matthew 12:21
Jesus is God - Yahweh - LORD - I AM - the angel of God - the name of God - the word of God - Jesus is one with the Father:

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who
created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom
of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Ephesians 3:

eternally-gratefull · Jun 25, 2019

jaybird88 said:

"nice try" ??? what in the world are you talking about? there has got to be one hundred plus times the Father is refereed to as "He" and not once anywhere refereed to as a "they".

let US in the Gen passage does not prove what you are trying to teach. the passage could just as easily be the Most High speaking to the Sons of the Most High, just the same as when you lead a group of men and say "let us go plow that field.
only twice do we have the the Father using this phrase and both times its followed by an action taking place down on our world. IMO this is the Father interacting with His council. just like He did when He sent the lying spirit.
the us could be the Father speaking to Himself, you never know, but the truth of it is there is nothing in that passage that says who He is talking to, your assuming He is talking to Himself. assumptions are not fact.
"let us" is used two times in all the scriptures by the Father. no where in scripture do you have Moses, Elijah, Jesus or anyone else calling the Father "they" or "them". three persons are a "they".

Yet you completely ignored the passage I spoke of which shows the God of Israel was sent by the father and spirit as savior.

And elohime is the term used, And god said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE.

Your wrong dude, Your wrong.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 25, 2019

jaybird88 said:

Why would he?

This makes no sense, The father is not three persons

eternally-gratefull · Jun 25, 2019

jaybird88 said:

You mean the same Jesus that refused to correct Thomas when he called jesus God

The same jesus who when his birth was announced, was given the title God

The same jesus who claimed before abraham was, He always existed (I am who I am) Using the same exact verbiage as the God in the burning Bush used when Moses asked him his name? (Which is why the pharisees feel back and considered him a blasphemer)

You need to study man.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 25, 2019

RevAutrey said:

The mystery is this:

We must understand that God in his manifested state, especially in the Gospels, always presents himself to as one person, just as we are one person. This has to be true because we are made in his image and likeness, and each of us is one person. And as you know all persons have names, and so it is with God. In fact, God has three names.

So what we see in the Gospels is God calling himself the Father as he decides his affairs: "Only the Father knows." And as he inspires us to believe in himself he uses the name Holy Spirit: "Receive ye the Holy Spirit." But in all cases as he speaks to us he calls himself Jesus: "I Jesus say unto you."

This should not seem strange to us because almost every person we know has three names. And we have no problem understanding who they are talking about when they use one of there other names. And so it should be with God. It's just that with God he speaks to us in symbolic language and we don't understand that he is speaking about himself.

See, with God it's not the dividing of himself into three parts, as many people believe. It's name recognition. It's by what name he speaks to us!

What I am saying is, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are all references to him as the brings us to salvation.

Rev Autrey

Why do you ignore posts.. You given passages which proved you wrong, and never even responded to them.

Your hurting your own cause when you refuse to acknowledge and explain why passages which appear to contradict you do not

Waggles · Jun 25, 2019

jaybird88 said:

That does not necessarily mean one is in a single unit - supposition at best
Given the many references to the different natures of God interacting with the world it is equally valid and far more plausible to
understand this as one in fellowship and shared attributes.
"We are all one on this matter, " said the team leader ...

12 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.
14 And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites:
have not I sent thee?
20 And the angel of God said unto him, Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay them upon this rock, and pour out the
broth. And he did so.
21 Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes;
and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of
his sight.
Judges 6: Gideon

Noose · Jun 25, 2019

Deuteronomy said:

Hi Jaybird, the Father wasn't speaking to Himself, He was speaking with the other Members of the Godhead (God the Son and God the Holy Spirit).

Genesis 1

26 God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness........."

27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

The Bible seems clear about this (please take particular note of what is highlighted in bold above).

Just to be clear about this as well, you are, of course, free to believe whatever you'd like to believe. I have chosen to believe what the historic Christian church teaches/has taught for millennia now, not simply because the church teaches it, but because after a long and fairly thorough study, it checks out Biblically. IOW, I, like millions of others before me, confirmed the truth of the church's Trinity doctrine by using the Bible.

You asked two more questions, but I've gotta run right now, so I'll need to address those later today (Dv).

~Deut

Why can't men also say "we","us","our" about themselves if they are made in the image of God?

Waggles · Jun 25, 2019

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days,
and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of
power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Matthew 26:64
compare also with Revelation 1:13-15

Noose · Jun 25, 2019

There's a great deal of misunderstanding and people won't accept that what they have been made to believe all their lives is wrong.

I also thought Trinity explained our God but came to the realization by myself that it doesn't, it means non existence just like a square- circle doesn't exist, anything being described as a square-circle doesn't exist. There is no such thing as three persons in one being, if there was, God would have plainly said so. A person is a being, three persons are three beings- the reason Trinitarians would start an explanation and finish with something like "...it something that our finite mind can not grasp.."

So our finite minds can not understand God yet God has set out to explain so that we know and understand Him?!
It is also illogical to say, someone else is wrong in their explanation of God but in the same breathe claim that you can't fully grasp and explain the nature of God.

NWL · Jun 25, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

Jesus being referred to as God doesn't necessitate that he is God almighty, for example in 2 Cor 4:4 it states in regards to Satan "among whom the god (ho theos) of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through".

Satan himself is called "the god", what's more interesting is that the Greek uses the term "ho theos" which is always translated with a capital G (the God), the only reason why its not in 2 Cor 4:4 is because scholars are unanimous in agreeing Satan is not God almighty, but this is beside the point. The point is Satan being called god/God here doesn't imply he is God almighty, the same way when other beings are called gods/God such as Men (John 10:34), Angels (Psalms 82:1,2) and Moses (Exo 7:1) it doesn't imply they are God almighty themselves. Likewise, Jesus being called God in John 20:28 doesn't support the idea that Thomas believed he was God almighty.

Scripture states "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”" (1 Cor 8:5), there are "many gods" according to scripture, yet the verse same chapter identifies the unique one God, see what it says when viewed in context:

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "..we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.."

There is "no God but one" and that "one God [is] the Father", plain and simple.

Noose · Jun 25, 2019

NWL said:

Jesus being referred to as God doesn't necessitate that he is God almighty, for example in 2 Cor 4:4 it states in regards to Satan "among whom the god (ho theos) of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through".

Satan himself is called "the god", what's more interesting is that the Greek uses the term "ho theos" which is always translated with a capital G (the God), the only reason why its not in 2 Cor 4:4 is because scholars are unanimous in agreeing Satan is not God almighty, but this is beside the point. The point is Satan being called god/God here doesn't imply he is God almighty, the same way when other beings are called gods/God such as Men (John 10:34), Angels (Psalms 82:1,2) and Moses (Exo 7:1) it doesn't imply they are God almighty themselves. Likewise, Jesus being called God in John 20:28 doesn't support the idea that Thomas believed he was God almighty.

Scripture states "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”" (1 Cor 8:5), there are "many gods" according to scripture, yet the verse same chapter identifies the unique one God, see what it says when viewed in context:

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "..we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.."

There is "no God but one" and that "one God [is] the Father", plain and simple.

But but but Jesus is our Father and our God. He is our Father because He is our God.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 25, 2019

NWL said:

Is 48:
“Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
They stand up together.
14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear!
Who among them has declared these things?
The Lord loves him;
He shall do His pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken;
Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16 “Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
[c]Have sent Me.”
17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
“I am the Lord your God,
Who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you by the way you should go.
18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
19 Your descendants also would have been like the sand,
And the offspring of your body like the grains of sand;
His name would not have been cut off
Nor destroyed from before Me.”

Can you please explain who this person, who was sent by the father and the spirit, the redeemer of Israel is?

tourist · Jun 25, 2019

RevAutrey said:

Actually, the earth is the hillside and one of the attributes of Jesus is that He is indeed a shepherd guarding His flock. There are three separate entities, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit comprising one God. I'm not sure how the 10 commandments is against this. Regardless, glad to have you onboard with us. Welcome to CC.

tourist · Jun 25, 2019

crossnote said:

There is nothing wrong with the screen name of the OP. I wouldn't want to be a member of such a forum as the one that you are referring to as the leadership seems to be a tad anal.

Deade · Jun 25, 2019

Noose said:

I am with you Noose, at least on this. We start throwing around labels describing our God and we fly off on some tangent and argue our cause with everyone. You label God, you limit God. That is not good as my God is limitless.

So I let the trinitarians and the oneness alone and let them argue with one another. My finite mind cannot understand the Holy Ghost at all. I mean, being everywhere at once? How can we call that a person? Clearly, when Jesus walked the earth; there was another entity in heaven for He spoke a couple of times. No labels for me.

Noose · Jun 25, 2019

Deade said:

I am with you Noose, at least on this. We start throwing around labels describing our God and we fly off on some tangent and argue our cause with everyone. You label God, you limit God. That is not good as my God is limitless.

So I let the trinitarians and the oneness alone and let them argue with one another. My finite mind cannot understand the Holy Ghost at all. I mean, being everywhere at once? How can we call that a person? Clearly, when Jesus walked the earth; there was another entity in heaven for He spoke a couple of times. No labels for me.

Mine is simple, very simple- Jesus is God.

Deade · Jun 25, 2019

Noose said:

Yeah, that is all we need to know. If we have Jesus, we are saved. Pretty simple.

"... and the Word was GOd. ..."

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