Not By Works

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UnderGrace

Guest
#101,841
#101,841
gb9 said:
yes, what lordship salvation is basically " pleagianism lite " ( pleagianism ) denies the sin nature, or in some cases, teaches that when one is truly saved, the sin nature is 100% gone, and a person no longer sins at all, and if that do, it is willful rebellion .
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Of course this teacher is not the only one that teaches this, it is ubiquitous across the land, but I did want to substantiate my concern with a quote..

"The renewal of the mind in salvation brings not simply a renovation of character, but transformation of the old to the new self. In Christ, the old self no longer exists" [Study Bible (MacArthur) Note under Ephesians 4:24].

You are right this does open that door to a sinless perfectionism...I never really noticed that before. :(
Very scary doctrine.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#101,842
#101,842
dcontroversal said:
100% Jesus or it is fraudulent........faith plus for, to keep, maintain, top off or finish salvation = false and lost <---according to scripture......Having begun in the spirit are you now made complete by the flesh (works) <--he calls them fools and bewitched
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It seems the number grows less and less daily who "get it" :(
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#101,843
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#101,843
GracethroughfaithinChrist said:
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
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Macabeus said:
Yep, if it is of grace, then work is no more work. VERY GOOD scripture. KUDOS

And to Him that has received grace, work is no longer reckoned as meritorious work, it becomes an expression of gratitude and love. 1 JOHN 5:3.

AND no one has room to boast, for WHAT DO WE HAVE THAT WE DID NOT RECEiVE FROM GOD. 1 Corinthians 4:7

All of Grace, it is all of grace, naught of myself, but all from Him, it is all of grace, that is all.
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2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#101,844
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
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#101,844
VCO said:
You do know that NO ONE EVEN PLAYS YOUR HATE CATHOLICISM PROPAGANDA, don't you ? ? ?

NOT EVEn US DIE HARD PROTESTANTS.
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Your false accusations against some who speak the truth, and don't see things as you do, is very telling.

We love Catholics Orv.

We don't love Roman Catholicism.

Are Catholics Christians?

1 John 2:9-11
He that says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10He that loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no occasion of stumbling in him.
11But he that hates his brother is in darkness, and walks in darkness, and knows not where he goes, because that darkness has blinded his eyes.
 
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Rasputin_OZ

Guest
#101,845
#101,845
Time for Roman Catholics to move on and reject those parts of their faith that are wrong and follow Jesus.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#101,846
#101,846
Rasputin_OZ said:
Time for Roman Catholics to move on and reject those parts of their faith that are wrong and follow Jesus.
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That would be quite a bit. I do not think the church can reform itself, it failed with the counter reformation and with the Vatican II.
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#101,847
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#101,847
Rasputin_OZ said:
Time for Roman Catholics to move on and reject those parts of their faith that are wrong and follow Jesus.
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Yes, but rather, move on from Roman Catholicism, and follow Jesus.

John 14:6
Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
 
S

safswan

Active member
#101,848
Jan 19, 2019
151
46
28
#101,848
VCO said:
I am going to explain this one more time. I am too OLD to have a so-called TIRADE. I was just answering questions.
Also I am OLD SCHOOL, and bold type was USED for ONLY Emphasis. I do not Care what FACEBOOK calls it, I have never had a FACEBOOK ACCOUNT. I AM 70 years old, and I like my bold print for Emphasis, and my Colors strictly for Emphasis. Better read this Verse: 1 Tim 5:1
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I am sorry if you are offended by my mild correction of your misunderstanding.I do not consider anything I have said to be a rebuke.However in my understanding and practice,when I emphasize in speech,then unfortunately,I do shout.It would be good for you to read these verses too:

James 3:1;I Timothy 5:19,20.

I had stopped responding to this thread but decided to respond to your concern,as I came across it today and I hope you will carefully consider all that I have said.You are never too old to learn.
 
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Rasputin_OZ

Guest
#101,849
#101,849
UnderGrace said:
That would be quite a bit. I do not think the church can reform itself, it failed with the counter reformation and with the Vatican II.
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no but people can reform themselves with christs help,
once they do that they may leave the church

but be aware , many so called Chrisitan churches also with false doctrine much worse than the catholics, at least they seek forgiveness when they sin, some churches teach chrisitans are no longer sinners and do not sin and no longer need forgiveness
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#101,850
May 3, 2017
3,754
4,119
113
63
#101,850
UnderGrace said:
Of course this teacher is not the only one that teaches this, it is ubiquitous across the land, but I did want to substantiate my concern with a quote..

"The renewal of the mind in salvation brings not simply a renovation of character, but transformation of the old to the new self. In Christ, the old self no longer exists" [Study Bible (MacArthur) Note under Ephesians 4:24].

You are right this does open that door to a sinless perfectionism...I never really noticed that before. :(
Very scary doctrine.
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@UnderGrace ...
I have John Macs study bible , and in his notes , he says there is still sin in the believers unredeemed flesh , he does not preach sinless perfection on Ephesians 4:24...xox...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101,851
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#101,851
UnderGrace said:
It seems the number grows less and less daily who "get it" :(
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Of course.....what I love are the deceivers that red x biblical truths and or plain factual truths......like rat circus......go look at the thread about is the bible the word of GOD.......red x'ing my stance against ISLAM while by default supporting ISLAM......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101,852
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
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#101,852
GracethroughfaithinChrist said:
Yes, but rather, move on from Roman Catholicism, and follow Jesus.

John 14:6
Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Click to expand...
We have the same issue today within Christianity that Israel had......remember what Balaam........COMPROMISE......and to be frank the acceptance of false religions, fellowship with false religions and the modern ecumenism is not of GOD.......it is idiotic to believe that ALL of "Christendom" worships the same GOD........by gospel, hence by default we do not worship the same God.........the root of ANY so called Christian group is the GOSPEL.....and if it (the root) is corrupt the whole TREE is corrupt........
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#101,854
#101,854
dcontroversal said:
Of course.....what I love are the deceivers that red x biblical truths and or plain factual truths......like rat circus......go look at the thread about is the bible the word of GOD.......red x'ing my stance against ISLAM while by default supporting ISLAM......
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Hmm I will take a look...

I agree red X on what is factual is really really reflects very poorly on that person, disagreeing with a fact makes no sense.
I have those people on ignore and mostly I ask them to ignore me.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101,855
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#101,855
UnderGrace said:
Hmm I will take a look...

I agree red X on what is factual is really really reflects very poorly on that person, disagreeing with a fact makes no sense.
I have those people on ignore and mostly I ask them to ignore me.
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The problem with Christianity today....NO real power because it has been watered down, believers are easily offended, afraid to OFFEND anyone with the truth, coddling false cults/religions for the sake of trying to win one at the expense of the hard, naked truth........Jesus cut it straight and was not concerned with who got offended at the truth so did John the dipper, PAUL, Elijah etc.........they laid the AX to the root and let the chips fall where they fell......

When anyone that was offended walked away from JESUS he DID NOT coddle them, run them down and beg them to receive the truth.....and this is what Christianity has sunken to........it utterly sickens me........
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#101,856
#101,856
Rosemaryx said:
@UnderGrace ...
I have John Macs study bible , and in his notes , he says there is still sin in the believers unredeemed flesh , he does not preach sinless perfection on Ephesians 4:24...xox...
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Yes he uses unredeemed flesh, however that is not the old nature, MacArthur teaches the old nature is gone with regeneration.

MacArthur is well known for changing positions and stating things and then having to retract like stating that the blood of Jesus does not save and that people can take the mark of the beast and still be saved.

I would agree he does not directly teach it the way some on here have taught sinless perfectionism ....however I have heard him speak where he has argued the unredeemed flesh is the physical body and so he states this is where sin remains until we die not that we have an old nature.

"Christians sin because of the vestiges of sinful flesh, not because they have the same old active sinful nature" (Faith Works, p. 116).

Many would dispute this with him.....however he has had to find a way to make it work with scripture and still hold to one nature that is being progressively sanctified. (this teaching is wrong)

He does not really believe in eternal security because in his teaching the person who is not a slave to rightousness was never really saved. (works salvation)
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#101,857
#101,857
dcontroversal said:
The problem with Christianity today....NO real power because it has been watered down, believers are easily offended, afraid to OFFEND anyone with the truth, coddling false cults/religions for the sake of trying to win one at the expense of the hard, naked truth........Jesus cut it straight and was not concerned with who got offended at the truth so did John the dipper, PAUL, Elijah etc.........they laid the AX to the root and let the chips fall where they fell......

When anyone that was offended walked away from JESUS he DID NOT coddle them, run them down and beg them to receive the truth.....and this is what Christianity has sunken to........it utterly sickens me........
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Yup saw this at the gay wedding thread....it was shocking, stating we are not to judge the world, completely misundertanding Paul when he stated this.....that leaves us pretty powerless to effect change.

I really, really, really hear you!!!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#101,858
#101,858
dcontroversal said:
We have the same issue today within Christianity that Israel had......remember what Balaam........COMPROMISE......and to be frank the acceptance of false religions, fellowship with false religions and the modern ecumenism is not of GOD.......it is idiotic to believe that ALL of "Christendom" worships the same GOD........by gospel, hence by default we do not worship the same God.........the root of ANY so called Christian group is the GOSPEL.....and if it (the root) is corrupt the whole TREE is corrupt........
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We are no longer salt....We no longer work against putrefaction.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#101,859
#101,859
Rasputin_OZ said:
no but people can reform themselves with christs help,
once they do that they may leave the church

but be aware , many so called Chrisitan churches also with false doctrine much worse than the catholics, at least they seek forgiveness when they sin, some churches teach chrisitans are no longer sinners and do not sin and no longer need forgiveness
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Well much worse that RCC would mean that they are not following any biblical truth.
 
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