Not By Works
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Romans 8:5Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ
DO you suppose the mind of the Spirit is set on promoting the Kingdom of God, seeing souls saved, bringing Glory to Christ, etc. Then those who have their minds set on the things of the Spirit will labor towards these ends, not in order to be saved, but out of love and gratitude, a desire to see souls saved, to bring glory to Christ, etc.
For example, if I am a Christian, and my child is unsaved, what kind of monster would I be to not care about their soul. Yes, I will be deeply burdened for their soul, even to the point where I might wish myself to be even accursed for their sake, if it would mean their salvation.
Works of faith and love
are the result of the promptings and yearnings of the Holy Spirit, whom we received the instant we were saved. Therefore, works of love are the effect of salvation, not the cause.
DO you suppose the mind of the Spirit is set on promoting the Kingdom of God, seeing souls saved, bringing Glory to Christ, etc. Then those who have their minds set on the things of the Spirit will labor towards these ends, not in order to be saved, but out of love and gratitude, a desire to see souls saved, to bring glory to Christ, etc.
For example, if I am a Christian, and my child is unsaved, what kind of monster would I be to not care about their soul. Yes, I will be deeply burdened for their soul, even to the point where I might wish myself to be even accursed for their sake, if it would mean their salvation.
Works of faith and love
are the result of the promptings and yearnings of the Holy Spirit, whom we received the instant we were saved. Therefore, works of love are the effect of salvation, not the cause.
The above proves that you do not believe a faith only based salvation......and you still have not answered the question....a deceiver that blends faith plus works...
Yes or no.....a man that has faith but DOES NOT WORK saved or not?
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Yes or no.....a man that has faith but DOES NOT WORK saved or not?
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
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Everyone take NOTE how Macaroni states he believes in a faith ONLY salvation but refuses to acknowledge the truth of the following simple question based upon the following verse....
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
MAN "A" believes in HIM that JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY but DOES NOT WORK.....is he saved or not.....YES or NO
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
MAN "A" believes in HIM that JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY but DOES NOT WORK.....is he saved or not.....YES or NO
Someone put an x on a post that contains a statement of fact, ie those who do not live after the Spirit are by default living after the flesh, and then referenced a passage that states that very thing.
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Did not Jesus die for us to take sins upon him?
Those sins that seperated us from God.
The temple curtain was torn in two and as a result we can come before God.
The purpose to reconcile us to God through faith in Jesus.
So Jesus did not die for us to redeem us as a zealous people of good works.
When a person comes to Jesus they are not zealous of good works, if they were doing such works, would there be a need for Jesus to die?
So does the following apply, given your statement?
Romans 4:1-4
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen. 17:10)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 4:5-8
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
So I say that when a person who comes to faith in Jesus they are not thinking "Whey hey I'm going to do great works"
They come to Jesus for many reasons, but not the above.
That does not mean that works do not follow.
But the majority of people come to Jesus out of their pain of life, hurts etc.
Such people are who I walk with in my church. It's my ministry.
In fact today I spent 3 hours with a guy.
Very shocking upbringing, similar to mine.
Sexual abuse, broken family and everything that results from it.
Addiction, anger, pain, broken heart and so on.
We looked and walked through forgiveness.
It broke my heart to see this pain and hurt but I was reminded that I was there and God brought me through me it.
I quoted to him
Romans 8:28-29
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Most people stop at v28 and also misinterprete it.
Most that I have walked with think it means that God makes all the bad things that happened to them good.
I told him that is not the case.
But he will work in those things and then quoted v29.
He works good in the bad in order to conform you to the image of Jesus.
As he does then
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
You see unless we understand what is said in Romans and allow God to work in us and understand we are saved by faith then it is going to be very difficult to walk in the good works he has called us to.
Now these good works are not just sin management.
These good works are what God gives us to walk with others who have been through what we have been through.
What use would I be to this guy if I hadn't been through it, experience the pain and consequences?
NADA, zilch, zero.
So I encourage him to work through this so that God will heal him and use him to help others.
When he came to Jesus he was not thinking of zealous works.
In fact the opposite. He was looking for Security, Acceptance and Significance that can only be found in Jesus, out of which everything flows.
Sorry for the long post but I'm responding to your quote based on my interpretation of it.
Those sins that seperated us from God.
The temple curtain was torn in two and as a result we can come before God.
The purpose to reconcile us to God through faith in Jesus.
So Jesus did not die for us to redeem us as a zealous people of good works.
When a person comes to Jesus they are not zealous of good works, if they were doing such works, would there be a need for Jesus to die?
So does the following apply, given your statement?
Romans 4:1-4
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen. 17:10)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 4:5-8
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
So I say that when a person who comes to faith in Jesus they are not thinking "Whey hey I'm going to do great works"
They come to Jesus for many reasons, but not the above.
That does not mean that works do not follow.
But the majority of people come to Jesus out of their pain of life, hurts etc.
Such people are who I walk with in my church. It's my ministry.
In fact today I spent 3 hours with a guy.
Very shocking upbringing, similar to mine.
Sexual abuse, broken family and everything that results from it.
Addiction, anger, pain, broken heart and so on.
We looked and walked through forgiveness.
It broke my heart to see this pain and hurt but I was reminded that I was there and God brought me through me it.
I quoted to him
Romans 8:28-29
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Most people stop at v28 and also misinterprete it.
Most that I have walked with think it means that God makes all the bad things that happened to them good.
I told him that is not the case.
But he will work in those things and then quoted v29.
He works good in the bad in order to conform you to the image of Jesus.
As he does then
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
You see unless we understand what is said in Romans and allow God to work in us and understand we are saved by faith then it is going to be very difficult to walk in the good works he has called us to.
Now these good works are not just sin management.
These good works are what God gives us to walk with others who have been through what we have been through.
What use would I be to this guy if I hadn't been through it, experience the pain and consequences?
NADA, zilch, zero.
So I encourage him to work through this so that God will heal him and use him to help others.
When he came to Jesus he was not thinking of zealous works.
In fact the opposite. He was looking for Security, Acceptance and Significance that can only be found in Jesus, out of which everything flows.
Sorry for the long post but I'm responding to your quote based on my interpretation of it.
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U
I have just noticed that people really cannot tolerate the plan of salvation....they always state yes there are no works involved, but then they stipulate the saved person will work and persevere.
What they cannot see is they make it a condition of salvation...if they truly believe the Gospel message they would more accurately state the believer is called/exhorted/led to walk the Spirit, in the newness of life and thereby do the works God has set before them.
HOWEVER............one can grieve the Spirit and one can work against their relationship with God because we still have our flesh, people need a lot of support and truth to have a worthy walk, and @eternally-gratefull mentioned it a post way back, lordship salvation is a grace killer and people do become the prodigal sons because of it.
What they cannot see is they make it a condition of salvation...if they truly believe the Gospel message they would more accurately state the believer is called/exhorted/led to walk the Spirit, in the newness of life and thereby do the works God has set before them.
HOWEVER............one can grieve the Spirit and one can work against their relationship with God because we still have our flesh, people need a lot of support and truth to have a worthy walk, and @eternally-gratefull mentioned it a post way back, lordship salvation is a grace killer and people do become the prodigal sons because of it.
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The guy I spent time with today smokes joints in the evening.
It's his escape from the hurt and pain.
He was ashamed of it and worried I would reject him.
I said to him "Smoking dope is not the issue here, the issue is the cause, that is what needs to dealt with"
Telling him to just stop does not work, because if he could he would not be seeking help.
It's his escape from the hurt and pain.
He was ashamed of it and worried I would reject him.
I said to him "Smoking dope is not the issue here, the issue is the cause, that is what needs to dealt with"
Telling him to just stop does not work, because if he could he would not be seeking help.
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But you trying to help him is a result of the fact that you have experienced the love of God. And through experiencing the love of God through you, he can have victory at some point in His life
I was a pothead that would start smoking weed as soon as I woke up, and would stay high all day, including smoking at bedtime to help me sleep, at least when I had it. When I was converted, I did not promise to stop. I just trusted for salvation, and didn’t need it anymore. I know not everyone gets instant deliverance, but I believe if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
I believe that God’s Grace is limitless, and can take you as far as you are willing and as far as you are able to believe
Sometimes it is the willingness that gets in the way
I was a pothead that would start smoking weed as soon as I woke up, and would stay high all day, including smoking at bedtime to help me sleep, at least when I had it. When I was converted, I did not promise to stop. I just trusted for salvation, and didn’t need it anymore. I know not everyone gets instant deliverance, but I believe if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
I believe that God’s Grace is limitless, and can take you as far as you are willing and as far as you are able to believe
Sometimes it is the willingness that gets in the way
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U
You sir have a lens, a paradigm that is my point....skid row is just another lens, we all have them, the key is to know we have them and try to step outside of them....not an easy task.
I am aware of the fact that our own life experiences have a lot to do with how we interpret scripture ...if you go to the Gay Wedding thread you will see how evident that is.
I am aware of the fact that our own life experiences have a lot to do with how we interpret scripture ...if you go to the Gay Wedding thread you will see how evident that is.
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