is bible the word of God

[Dino246]

You know how amazing it is that christian concept is totally opposite of Islamic concept.Islam teaches muslims to respect all prophets of God because God is only one so they came with same message i.e.worship one God and do good deeds.Now about the counterfeit bill,they run in market for years until they go through scrutiny that is what I said to you.put QUran to a regiorous scrutiny.If it is not God's word it will fail.that simple.

Here's your error (one of many!): Christians do respect prophets of God, such as Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, and Daniel. We don't respect Muhammad as a prophet of God... because he isn't one!

Your argument is based on supposed moral superiority. It's not valid , because you're appealing to your own sense of morality, which is tied up in your belief. It's a circular argument.

 

[mjkhan]

Look let us be clear there is a difference between proof and explanation which could be true or false but doesn't replace proof.e,g I sell you house for 2000K$ and want you to buy it on my showing you look mail comes on my name,look my kids were born here and their birth cert have this address or say look utility bills come for this address on my name.Is that proof ?will you pay me money on just this?
No because this is only explanation and not proof.Same here at least to me Jesus is much bigger than the house.SO where is the proof in which Jesus himself says I am God or worship me?Can you show me that.You seem educated man so just pause and think the difference between explanations and proof.

 

[mjkhan]

Here's your error (one of many!): Christians do respect prophets of God, such as Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, and Daniel. We don't respect Muhammad as a prophet of God... because he isn't one!

Your argument is based on supposed moral superiority. It's not valid , because you're appealing to your own sense of morality, which is tied up in your belief. It's a circular argument.

so proof Muhamamd wrong by quoting QUran and showing me the writings.He was an unlettered man.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Read Quran yourself so you can refute QUran with references and facts here is the link www.englishtafsir.com

My friend, I am not interested in refuting the Quran from the Quran, because it basically is a waste of time.
Unless a book or theology holds defined positions which can be refuted there is an argument to be had.

Taking murder as the moral high ground. The Koran says

Because of this did We ordain unto the children of Israel that if anyone slays a human being-unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind. Kor 5:32

God says this :
13 You shall not murder.
Exodus 20

The Koran is saying simply do not kill someone, unless as a judgement for murder or for spreading corruption.

"Spreading corruption" - is like opening the door to any believer interpreting whatever they like as long as they
regard it as corruption. So if someone says something wrong, or offends Islam, dead.

An example was a coffee seller who was selling coffee to a group of muslim fighters who asked for the coffee to
be given for free. The response was not until Muhammed returned would they give them the coffee for free.
That was deemed an insult to Islam, so they were killed.

This kind of change of mindset is not unusual in Islamic groups, because the boundary between evil and good
deeds has been so blurred and corrupted they cannot tell the difference.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

so proof Muhamamd wrong by quoting QUran and showing me the writings.He was an unlettered man.

Muhammed was wrong because he does not teach the way of the God of Israel, but a different faith.
Jesus was the fulfilment of the law and prophets, salvation of sinners into the Kingdom.

Muhammed quoted from apostate books like The Testament of Abraham

Islamic grouping

Sunni - Schools of thought (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi, Hanbali) , Salafi (Wahabbi), Barelvi, Dioband movement

Shia - Ismilism Sevener(Qaranita), Bizari(Druze), Mustali(Tayyibi)
Jafri, Twelver(Akbari(Shaykhi),Usuli), Alawi, Alevi
Zaidiyyah

Khararij - ibadiyya
Ithnashari,

Sufi - Bektahi, Chishti, Mawlawi, Naqshband, Oveyssi, Qadiriyyah, Subrawandiyya, Tijanlyyah, Muridiyya, Shadhil

Ahmadiyya

Though some would want to believe this is a monolithic faith, it is not, nor is it a simple
road to truth and reality.

Copied sections from other faiths

J1viii: Heaven and Hell
There are Qur'anic accounts which deal with heaven and hell, which have no parallels with our Biblical accounts. It is not difficult, however, to find out where these stories originated. Take for instance the following:

Seven Heavens and Seven Hells
In suras 15:43-44 and 17:44 we find reference to the seven hells and the seven heavens. Without asking where these seven heavens and hells are located, it will be helpful to note that the same number of hells and heavens can be found in the tradition called Jagigah and Zuhal.

Mi'raj
In sura 17:1 we have the report of Muhammad's journey by night from the Sacred mosque to the farthest mosque. From later traditions we know this aya is referring to Muhammad ascending up to the 7th Heaven, after a miraculous night journey (the Mi'raj) from Mecca to Jerusalem, on a "horse" called Buraq.

More detail is furnished us in the Jewish Mishkat al Masabih. We can trace the story back to a fictitious book called The Testament of Abraham, written around 200 B.C., in Egypt, and then translated into Greek and Arabic.

Another account is that of The Secrets of Enoch, which predates Muhammad by four centuries. In chapter 1:4-10 and 2:1 we read:

"On the first day of the month I was in my house and was resting on my couch and slept and when I was asleep great distress came up into my heart and there appeared two men. They were standing at my couch and called me by name and I arose from my sleep. Have courage, Enoch, do not fear; The Eternal God sent us to thee. Thou shalt today ascend with us into heaven. The angels took him on their wings and bore him up to the first heaven."

Hell
The Qur'anic description of Hell resembles the descriptions of hell in the Homilies of Ephraim, a Nestorian preacher of the sixth century (Glubb, pg.36)

Balance
The author of the Qur'an in suras 42:17 and 101:6-9, utilized The Testament of Abraham to teach that a scale or balance will be used on the day of judgment to weigh good and bad deeds in order to determine whether one goes to heaven or to hell.

 

[mjkhan]

My friend, I am not interested in refuting the Quran from the Quran, because it basically is a waste of time.
Unless a book or theology holds defined positions which can be refuted there is an argument to be had.

Taking murder as the moral high ground. The Koran says

Because of this did We ordain unto the children of Israel that if anyone slays a human being-unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind. Kor 5:32

God says this :
13 You shall not murder.
Exodus 20

The Koran is saying simply do not kill someone, unless as a judgement for murder or for spreading corruption.

"Spreading corruption" - is like opening the door to any believer interpreting whatever they like as long as they
regard it as corruption. So if someone says something wrong, or offends Islam, dead.

An example was a coffee seller who was selling coffee to a group of muslim fighters who asked for the coffee to
be given for free. The response was not until Muhammed returned would they give them the coffee for free.
That was deemed an insult to Islam, so they were killed.

This kind of change of mindset is not unusual in Islamic groups, because the boundary between evil and good
deeds has been so blurred and corrupted they cannot tell the difference.

Few interesting points you raised.First Muslims were not drinking coffee in time of prophet.Second I am then opposite to you I read the books on chrisitianity written by christians because I want to increase my solid knowledge because reading christianity books written by Muslims will first be only biased and then I do not the propaganda points agaisnt them rather solid points of knowledge.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The problem with Islam is there are so many problems, it cannot actually stand up to proper scrutiny.
It is such a diverse vast set of documents and ideas, it often takes years to begin to get a grip of the
differing threads.

The core problem is a lack of internal integrity or desire for truth as an objective reality.
This means such societies get lost is lies, deception and propoganda.

The key issue that has lead to the freedom in the west is that truth above everything else has value.
No matter the cost, you cannot stop truth.

 

[mjkhan]

The problem with Islam is there are so many problems, it cannot actually stand up to proper scrutiny.
It is such a diverse vast set of documents and ideas, it often takes years to begin to get a grip of the
differing threads.

The core problem is a lack of internal integrity or desire for truth as an objective reality.
This means such societies get lost is lies, deception and propoganda.

The key issue that has lead to the freedom in the west is that truth above everything else has value.
No matter the cost, you cannot stop truth.

OK I make it easy for you,why I chose Islam over all other faiths?
Islam is the only religion which professes strict monotheism.
Islam is the religion that was sent with all the prophets to mankind from Adam to Muhammad.
Quran is the only divine book that is same from the revelation to today dot by dot ,coma by coma
Prophet Muhammad came for whole mankind he said so and Quran says so while all the previous prophets and their books including Jesus came for one people or one area or one time.Prophet Muhammad was a complete role model to follw ,he was father,husband and leader,a general a judge a head of the state etc.
Islam is the only religion that has a mechanism to create and maintain spiritualtiy.no other faith does it.CHrisitanity unknowlingly condones sins and thus makes the work of Satan easy.He entices people to do sins and this saying without apporval of Jesus,that he died for your sins condones one to do sins.
Prove me wrong if you can.I studied christinatiy and then came to Islam.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Few interesting points you raised.First Muslims were not drinking coffee in time of prophet.Second I am then opposite to you I read the books on chrisitianity written by christians because I want to increase my solid knowledge because reading christianity books written by Muslims will first be only biased and then I do not the propaganda points agaisnt them rather solid points of knowledge.

Unfortunately I had many years talking to muslims, listening to their reasoning and wondering at
why they were so disfunctional on so many levels.

Put simply it came down to a mindset that bound them to the Koran as defining truth and everything
that was held in regard and that which should be rejected.

The only thing that had real meaning was when we talked about life issues outside of islamic references,
because nothing within Islam progressed to something meaningful.

One simple discussion was was the earth flat. Or is predicting the weather blasphemy against the will of God.
Now it was not uncommon that both of these positions were held as if they were true, even though both things
can be shown the earth is round and that weather forcasting is just using cause and effect logic.

The reason why slavery, abuse of other peoples, domination died is because of the enlightenment and education
without boundaries.

Jesus interests me above all else because He declared some basic moral focuses, living life from love.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

OK I make it easy for you,why I chose Islam over all other faiths?
Islam is the only religion which professes strict monotheism.
Islam is the religion that was sent with all the prophets to mankind from Adam to Muhammad.
Quran is the only divine book that is same from the revelation to today dot by dot ,coma by coma
Prophet Muhammad came for whole mankind he said so and Quran says so while all the previous prophets and their books including Jesus came for one people or one area or one time.Prophet Muhammad was a complete role model to follw ,he was father,husband and leader,a general a judge a head of the state etc.
Islam is the only religion that has a mechanism to create and maintain spiritualtiy.no other faith does it.CHrisitanity unknowlingly condones sins and thus makes the work of Satan easy.He entices people to do sins and this saying without apporval of Jesus,that he died for your sins condones one to do sins.
Prove me wrong if you can.I studied christinatiy and then came to Islam.

Sounds like you are aesthetic. I can see for an aesthetic which Muhammed was for a period, would have some
appeal.

Muhammed though did not know love for God or love for his neighbour.
No where in the Koran did he copy these core principles of Jesus and of the God of Israel.

Now that equally suggests to me these are not principles you know of or follow.
Maybe you are just a legalist, and believe through brutal imposition of death and chopping off of hands
you get an obedient society.

If anything what our society shows is with love, care, support, education and health support you get
a functioning society with some fantastically good traits. But the main reason for this is technology and
empowerment of the individual to discover themselves and how they can meaningfully contribute.

Both these principles are ones Jesus encourages us to follow. It is inherent in the way of openness and love.

 

[PennEd]

Look let us be clear there is a difference between proof and explanation which could be true or false but doesn't replace proof.e,g I sell you house for 2000K$ and want you to buy it on my showing you look mail comes on my name,look my kids were born here and their birth cert have this address or say look utility bills come for this address on my name.Is that proof ?will you pay me money on just this?
No because this is only explanation and not proof.Same here at least to me Jesus is much bigger than the house.SO where is the proof in which Jesus himself says I am God or worship me?Can you show me that.You seem educated man so just pause and think the difference between explanations and proof.

You CAN'T be serious! I just posted a bunch of passages that show crystal clear that not only did Jesus say He was God, but everybody around Him either said He was God, bowed down and worshiped Him as God, or wanted to kill Him BECAUSE HE CLAIMED TO BE GOD.

How is it possible you are capable of deceiving yourself that He isn't God?

Reject the allah of quran and the false prophet muhammed, believe and accept Jesus and be saved!

 

[PennEd]

OK I make it easy for you,why I chose Islam over all other faiths?
Islam is the only religion which professes strict monotheism.
Islam is the religion that was sent with all the prophets to mankind from Adam to Muhammad.
Quran is the only divine book that is same from the revelation to today dot by dot ,coma by coma
Prophet Muhammad came for whole mankind he said so and Quran says so while all the previous prophets and their books including Jesus came for one people or one area or one time.Prophet Muhammad was a complete role model to follw ,he was father,husband and leader,a general a judge a head of the state etc.
Islam is the only religion that has a mechanism to create and maintain spiritualtiy.no other faith does it.CHrisitanity unknowlingly condones sins and thus makes the work of Satan easy.He entices people to do sins and this saying without apporval of Jesus,that he died for your sins condones one to do sins.
Prove me wrong if you can.I studied christinatiy and then came to Islam.

Islam rejects that Jesus IS God, and that His atoning death is the ONLY way to Salvation. Therefore, like every other religion on Earth it is satanic.

 

[mjkhan]

Sounds like you are aesthetic. I can see for an aesthetic which Muhammed was for a period, would have some
appeal.

Muhammed though did not know love for God or love for his neighbour.
No where in the Koran did he copy these core principles of Jesus and of the God of Israel.

Now that equally suggests to me these are not principles you know of or follow.
Maybe you are just a legalist, and believe through brutal imposition of death and chopping off of hands
you get an obedient society.

If anything what our society shows is with love, care, support, education and health support you get
a functioning society with some fantastically good traits. But the main reason for this is technology and
empowerment of the individual to discover themselves and how they can meaningfully contribute.

Both these principles are ones Jesus encourages us to follow. It is inherent in the way of openness and love.

Look my friend I am an educated man and reach to conclusion after doing intense research and comparison and thus I reached this conclusion.SUrprisingly many pastors and priests have also reached this conclusion.What ever you do is just good as long as you have reached the conclusion after detail indepth study.DOn't forget would you be a christian if you were born in a Budhist or Hindu or Jew home.ANswer clearly is NO.meaning an impartial research is always necessary orif we don't beleive init then we can be secular or atheist or whatever.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Look my friend I am an educated man and reach to conclusion after doing intense research and comparison and thus I reached this conclusion.SUrprisingly many pastors and priests have also reached this conclusion.What ever you do is just good as long as you have reached the conclusion after detail indepth study.DOn't forget would you be a christian if you were born in a Budhist or Hindu or Jew home.ANswer clearly is NO.meaning an impartial research is always necessary orif we don't beleive init then we can be secular or atheist or whatever.

I am a believer because I love Jesus, not because of the family I was born into.
You seem to believe your conclusions stand up, when you have said nothing that is new to me
but just tells me of your emotional allegiance. And unfortunately nothing is ever impartial.

Jesus put it simply, unless you are called you will never know Him. I have met many who know
of Jesus and do not respond while others listen and follow. Jesus is unique. He asks us to learn
from Him in our lives, to prove His words and status, to not just accept but to explore, to ask,
to seek, to make things real in our hearts, to know what love is in the depths of our being.

In Islam and from muslims I have never heard such things, even though they claim to know
Jesus and follow His gospel. You cannot know Jesus and miss His commands to love, to forgive,
to be a light in the darkness, to follow the road of humbleness and service.

But it appears though you claim to have looked at christianity you missed Jesus himself.

The fact you do not know the fundamentals of Jesus being God and how he was worshipped and
just accept islamic propoganda, you sound like just a superficial investigator.

But equally as important, what type of muslim are you, sunni or shia? Who do you rever among
the scholars and why? What of the fundamentalists and their revolutionary view of sharia and
taking over the west?

What for me speaks so much is Israel verses Pakistan. Which country works and which is failing?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I always like words like this
"I am an educated man, after intense research and impartial weighing of the facts this is the conclusion
you should also accept"

Imams stand up spout nonsense, literally, and all the muslims bow and nod in agreement, because to do
otherwise is blasphemy. The term critical thinking has not crossed their mind, because you cannot criticise
Muhammed for sexual activity with a 6 year old girl. Now if you want a definition of a pedophile this is it.

Or take a woman who has been raped. She is traumatised so goes to the police for help. They ask are there
witnesses? 4 male witnesses. No. So you admit sex outside marriage, so should be killed for adultery.

Now this is not uncommon behaviour and a problem. So go to afghanistan and the prisons are full of women
caught in abuse and no where to go. And to object to this is blasphemy because it is calling Muhammed wrong.

Now Shia go as far a babies can be abused. In some views all children are owned by the father and can be
killed if they dishonour the family. So punishing such acts again is thought of as blasphemy against Islam.

This pit of human behaviour does not stop. The worst psychopaths can take over, eliminate who they want and
carry on. It is evil to speak the truth about another if it brings them into a bad light in public. So any journalism
is a target to be attacked as evil. Little wonder journalists are attacked, imprisoned and abused.

If you want to destroy any society, any justice and truth, let Islam rule.

 

[PennEd]

Look my friend I am an educated man and reach to conclusion after doing intense research and comparison and thus I reached this conclusion.SUrprisingly many pastors and priests have also reached this conclusion.What ever you do is just good as long as you have reached the conclusion after detail indepth study.DOn't forget would you be a christian if you were born in a Budhist or Hindu or Jew home.ANswer clearly is NO.meaning an impartial research is always necessary orif we don't beleive init then we can be secular or atheist or whatever.

Sadly, I can envision you on judgement day if you are not born again by believing and accepting Jesus.

" But Lord, I am an educated man! I have done intensive research and determined that You are NOT God!"

He will say, "Depart from Me into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels!"

Please FORGET your research. Maybe the Lord drew you here to hear the One True Gospel unto Salvation. Don't reject His offer to you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

As a foot note to write the above criticism would be life risking.
In Saudi certainly.

But these are simple truths that stand up anywhere, but the society denies them.
In Iran women do not want to wear the burka. They are protesting.
The clerics want to imprison them.

Domination and forcing people to behave is this faith. It is not a debate it is just submission,
even if the idiology does not work, does not make sense, destroys peoples lives and is best just
ignored, and no one would notice.

This is why Turkey has prospered in the last 60 years, but is starting to go backwards.
In the west most do not understand our basic life assumptions are banned in the enforced
sharia states or regions, and all that prospers is more blind submission to a dysfunctional world
view and life style.

 

[Dino246]

so proof Muhamamd wrong by quoting QUran and showing me the writings.He was an unlettered man.

Whether he was "lettered" (formally educated) is irrelevant. Muhammad led people to follow a false god. That makes him a false prophet. The god of Muhammad is not God of the Bible.

 

[mjkhan]

I always like words like this
"I am an educated man, after intense research and impartial weighing of the facts this is the conclusion
you should also accept"

Imams stand up spout nonsense, literally, and all the muslims bow and nod in agreement, because to do
otherwise is blasphemy. The term critical thinking has not crossed their mind, because you cannot criticise
Muhammed for sexual activity with a 6 year old girl. Now if you want a definition of a pedophile this is it.

Or take a woman who has been raped. She is traumatised so goes to the police for help. They ask are there
witnesses? 4 male witnesses. No. So you admit sex outside marriage, so should be killed for adultery.

Now this is not uncommon behaviour and a problem. So go to afghanistan and the prisons are full of women
caught in abuse and no where to go. And to object to this is blasphemy because it is calling Muhammed wrong.

Now Shia go as far a babies can be abused. In some views all children are owned by the father and can be
killed if they dishonour the family. So punishing such acts again is thought of as blasphemy against Islam.

This pit of human behaviour does not stop. The worst psychopaths can take over, eliminate who they want and
carry on. It is evil to speak the truth about another if it brings them into a bad light in public. So any journalism
is a target to be attacked as evil. Little wonder journalists are attacked, imprisoned and abused.

If you want to destroy any society, any justice and truth, let Islam rule.

Debate for the sake of debate is not the goal but facts are here and speak for themselves.Inquest,slavery,colonialisation,crusade,holocaust,wars for profit are done by whom?Today in western society we see all kind of sad evils like depression,homicide,pronography,child sex,drinking,divorces,out of wed children,fights why?BEcause the only guidance is religion but christianity(not christ)led followers towards sin and more sin by creating concept of"Jesus died for our sinsIslam on the other hand creates and maintains a culture of spirituality.which basically starts from self control,coming from accountability concept,then moral incentive then morality and then spirituality.
You don't have to agree with me.You are to think what you think is right.In Quran God many times says "if we wanted we would have made every one Muslim"but we wanted to see how people fear an unseen God and thus try to self control themselves so make life easy for other human beings.
Good luck.

 

[posthuman]

You CAN'T be serious! I just posted a bunch of passages that show crystal clear that not only did Jesus say He was God, but everybody around Him either said He was God, bowed down and worshiped Him as God, or wanted to kill Him BECAUSE HE CLAIMED TO BE GOD.

How is it possible you are capable of deceiving yourself that He isn't God?

Reject the allah of quran and the false prophet muhammed, believe and accept Jesus and be saved!

Yes Jesus was tried and executed on the charges of blasphemy: on claiming to be God manifested in the flesh.