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Paul does not specifically reference speaking in tongues in Ephesians but that does not change what he points out in another epistle. Paul makes it clear that those speaking in an unknown tongue are speaking to God. He also mentions praying and singing in the spirit as well as his regular language. All of these are ways the Holy Ghost edifies His children.
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Baptism of the spirit
Rom 6
Col 2
1 cor 12
Gal 3
Just like God baptised the children of Isreal into moses, He baptises us into Christ.
The OT symbol of baptizing priests and gentiles are an example of what this baptism would be, (as for the priesthood. The fact the ANOINTING of oil, and the fact Jesus was anointed wiht the spirit proves baptism and anointing are two different events)
The NT symbol of water baptism also symbolises the baptism of the spirit.
Baptism of the spirit is not some religious act that gave you a gift of tongues.
John the baptist said jesus would baptise with the HS (this baptism would be the MEANS by with the wheat (the people God has salved out of this world) and with Fire (the means by whihc he will totally immerse the chaff into the fire that shall never be quenched or hell)
Everyone will be baptized, You better chose the correct baptism.
So yes, I do have jesus on my side.
The gifts of the spirit come through the ANNOINTING ministry of the hs (the holy spirit COMING INTO YOU)
But BAPTISM of God MUST occur first. The fact that the gifts appeared AFTER they were baptised by the spirit is just by coincidence,
If they were NOT baptized by God. They would not be saved, and HENCE would never have had the HS come INTO THEM, , (anoint) and hence they would not have a gift of the spirit.
You need to take the whole counil of god, not just a few small verses, to make a doctrine work.
Rom 6
Col 2
1 cor 12
Gal 3
Just like God baptised the children of Isreal into moses, He baptises us into Christ.
The OT symbol of baptizing priests and gentiles are an example of what this baptism would be, (as for the priesthood. The fact the ANOINTING of oil, and the fact Jesus was anointed wiht the spirit proves baptism and anointing are two different events)
The NT symbol of water baptism also symbolises the baptism of the spirit.
Baptism of the spirit is not some religious act that gave you a gift of tongues.
John the baptist said jesus would baptise with the HS (this baptism would be the MEANS by with the wheat (the people God has salved out of this world) and with Fire (the means by whihc he will totally immerse the chaff into the fire that shall never be quenched or hell)
Everyone will be baptized, You better chose the correct baptism.
So yes, I do have jesus on my side.
The gifts of the spirit come through the ANNOINTING ministry of the hs (the holy spirit COMING INTO YOU)
But BAPTISM of God MUST occur first. The fact that the gifts appeared AFTER they were baptised by the spirit is just by coincidence,
If they were NOT baptized by God. They would not be saved, and HENCE would never have had the HS come INTO THEM, , (anoint) and hence they would not have a gift of the spirit.
You need to take the whole counil of god, not just a few small verses, to make a doctrine work.
E
Wrong, Paul did not mention baptism in eph 1 because it was not required. It was an immediate affect of placing ones faith in Christ (as was the baptism of the spirit. Which had to occurs first BEFORE the anointing.
baptism in water will not save you,
Your trying to replace the baptism of God with the baptism of men,
You are pretty much making the same mistake the jews made in trying to force people to be circumcized to be saved.
baptism in water will not save you,
Your trying to replace the baptism of God with the baptism of men,
You are pretty much making the same mistake the jews made in trying to force people to be circumcized to be saved.
As I have stated many times, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
It was He who gave Peter instructions to give those who believed in Him. It was He who joined His disciples while they water baptized people. (He did not discourage anyone from administering it) It was He who told His disciples not to go forth in ministry until they were endued with power through the infilling of the Holy Ghost. It was He who gave the great commission:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19-20
So if you have a problem with people doing what they were told to do by Jesus you are going to have to take it up with Him.
It was He who gave Peter instructions to give those who believed in Him. It was He who joined His disciples while they water baptized people. (He did not discourage anyone from administering it) It was He who told His disciples not to go forth in ministry until they were endued with power through the infilling of the Holy Ghost. It was He who gave the great commission:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19-20
So if you have a problem with people doing what they were told to do by Jesus you are going to have to take it up with Him.
I did in post # 802, you even responded to it in post #810.
I have said and have always said those of Pentecostal or charismatics who ( and I have done so to them personally ) in fact some have a short term memory loss of post and different threads of the past of the same topic.
I have not only disagreed with Pentecostals & Charismatic members generally in a post and I have done so personally. And I will so add some who question yet again my integrity responded with their own Icon meme in support for what I said. here are a few
These are just a few where those with short term memory loss have not only responded to them but gave me green checks, Thumbs ups, and other memes. Not to mention under the old format I received from these very same people Citations up to 1000.
I have said and have always said those of Pentecostal or charismatics who ( and I have done so to them personally ) in fact some have a short term memory loss of post and different threads of the past of the same topic.
I have not only disagreed with Pentecostals & Charismatic members generally in a post and I have done so personally. And I will so add some who question yet again my integrity responded with their own Icon meme in support for what I said. here are a few
- hyper-grace
- tongues required for salvation
- baptism in the Holy Spirit
- Jesus name only for salvation
- errors, ignorance, unlearned false teachings, and spirit of antichrist
These are just a few where those with short term memory loss have not only responded to them but gave me green checks, Thumbs ups, and other memes. Not to mention under the old format I received from these very same people Citations up to 1000.
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as you said yourself, this thread is about tongues
not baptizing by water
if you can state that to Angela, then perhaps take note also
things are bad enough with the tongues debate as is...this just throws gas on the flames
of course you don't have to acknowledge this...but it would be helpful IMO
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I read your response and was replying to it. This is what you said, "don't confuse what is recorded in Acts. the disciples and other followers of Christ were ALREADY SAVED."
Yes, they were already saved because they had accepted Christ into their life according to Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
So, what was the additional blessing they received in Acts please?
And a second question is, What is the separate baptism in the Holy Spirit that you speak of? You seem to be speaking of two baptisms.
Yes, they were already saved because they had accepted Christ into their life according to Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
So, what was the additional blessing they received in Acts please?
And a second question is, What is the separate baptism in the Holy Spirit that you speak of? You seem to be speaking of two baptisms.
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well we agree they were already saved
we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and then baptism IN the Holy Spirit is after...for those who go on with God anyway
I am not speaking of 2 baptisms...unless you include water there, but that is physical and not a part of salvation and that has been discussed until the rubber on the tires is gone
if you believe that a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion, where do you see that in the Bible?
at this point, I am not quite sure what it is you are saying other than I read that you responded to someone they only had God and Jesus but no Holy Spirit
your post 1101
is where I understood you to say no Holy Spirit
we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and then baptism IN the Holy Spirit is after...for those who go on with God anyway
I am not speaking of 2 baptisms...unless you include water there, but that is physical and not a part of salvation and that has been discussed until the rubber on the tires is gone
if you believe that a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion, where do you see that in the Bible?
at this point, I am not quite sure what it is you are saying other than I read that you responded to someone they only had God and Jesus but no Holy Spirit
your post 1101
is where I understood you to say no Holy Spirit
Paul was referring to the spiritual gift of tongues. "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way." 1 Cor 12:30-31
Paul's comment has nothing to do with speaking in tongues that are produced when one is filled with the Holy Ghost.
Paul's comment has nothing to do with speaking in tongues that are produced when one is filled with the Holy Ghost.
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When Jesus ascended into heaven he said he would send the Comforter. The Comforter is the Holy Spirit the apostles were filled with. This is the third person of the Trinity. We receive Christ into our life when we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour but the Comforter has more blessings to bestow upon us.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit for those who seek them, are an additional empowerment for those who seek to be further used by God in the furtherance of His work, to His glory.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit for those who seek them, are an additional empowerment for those who seek to be further used by God in the furtherance of His work, to His glory.