Is conspiracy, 'Mark of the Beast,' an unhealthy obsession for Christians?
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Yes. There is a fine line to tread though. Certainly gaining knowledge and understanding of prophecy and debating it is one thing. Becoming obsessed the rest of your life with it is unhealthy.
I assume with your title Mark of the Beast, its this area which you are enquiring about. First can of worms warning, you only need to do a quick search on these forums to see how much this topic is done to death. Then we have theology fall out with all the different end time senarios, including people who say everything in Revelation has already happened.
Moving on then
People become paraniod with "Mark of the Beast" which is also unhealthy. The Anti-Christ is also another unhealthy obsession with some people who try to work out who the anti-christ is, problem is might not have been born yet!
I feel sorry for the Christians who are caught in the fear of The Mark. Recently we had a huge hoo-ha over micro chip implants which can be used for all sorts of things, but easily removed if needed. "Do no have the implants, you will be taking the mark" they cry. NO.
Will the Mark be some sort of tech? Maybe. People obsess about it, interestingly enough there is artificall skin tatoo that can hold electronics powered by bodys own electronic impluses. Is this Mark? unlikely.
So what is the Mark? We will only know when it happens. Personally I think its a spiritual mark. The Anti-christ needs an army to fight Christ and Angel. What better way than to have all the human sheep take something that will change DNA maybe, definitly something that will also work on the spiritual side as well. The mark will be a visable change in the body which can be seen by other people who have taken it. With the body and spirit corrupted by DNA it will be impossible for those people to enter heaven and only place for them is hell.
So yes, do you study take an interest, but when it starts to consume you and you go looking for the Anti-christ and live in fear of the Mark, then yes that is when its unhealthy and wrong. So Stop. We will know the Anti-Christ when he emerges. However some folks think he as been and gone.
I assume with your title Mark of the Beast, its this area which you are enquiring about. First can of worms warning, you only need to do a quick search on these forums to see how much this topic is done to death. Then we have theology fall out with all the different end time senarios, including people who say everything in Revelation has already happened.
Moving on then
People become paraniod with "Mark of the Beast" which is also unhealthy. The Anti-Christ is also another unhealthy obsession with some people who try to work out who the anti-christ is, problem is might not have been born yet!
I feel sorry for the Christians who are caught in the fear of The Mark. Recently we had a huge hoo-ha over micro chip implants which can be used for all sorts of things, but easily removed if needed. "Do no have the implants, you will be taking the mark" they cry. NO.
Will the Mark be some sort of tech? Maybe. People obsess about it, interestingly enough there is artificall skin tatoo that can hold electronics powered by bodys own electronic impluses. Is this Mark? unlikely.
So what is the Mark? We will only know when it happens. Personally I think its a spiritual mark. The Anti-christ needs an army to fight Christ and Angel. What better way than to have all the human sheep take something that will change DNA maybe, definitly something that will also work on the spiritual side as well. The mark will be a visable change in the body which can be seen by other people who have taken it. With the body and spirit corrupted by DNA it will be impossible for those people to enter heaven and only place for them is hell.
So yes, do you study take an interest, but when it starts to consume you and you go looking for the Anti-christ and live in fear of the Mark, then yes that is when its unhealthy and wrong. So Stop. We will know the Anti-Christ when he emerges. However some folks think he as been and gone.
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There is an unhealthy obsession with this subject by some. The ironic aspect of it is that those who are most obsessed appear to be the
pre tribbers who are convinced that they wont be here to see him when he appears. One would expect them to be the least likely to be
concerned about it.
pre tribbers who are convinced that they wont be here to see him when he appears. One would expect them to be the least likely to be
concerned about it.
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I'm a pre tribber. I'm not obsessed.
I'm IN Jesus Christ. So I don't fear or obsess over anything. Having said that....
The WHOLE Bible is one integrated message system. We're NOT gonna toss out the Book of Revelation, or parts of Daniel, some of Jesus' prophecies etc... just because Preterists think Caesar and the Romans issued the mark of the beast, and all the judgements already happened in 70 AD, or the 1000 yr reign of Christ on Earth is allegory, doesn't mean the rest of us aren't gonna discuss it.
I'm IN Jesus Christ. So I don't fear or obsess over anything. Having said that....
The WHOLE Bible is one integrated message system. We're NOT gonna toss out the Book of Revelation, or parts of Daniel, some of Jesus' prophecies etc... just because Preterists think Caesar and the Romans issued the mark of the beast, and all the judgements already happened in 70 AD, or the 1000 yr reign of Christ on Earth is allegory, doesn't mean the rest of us aren't gonna discuss it.
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The book of Revelation, for the most part, is a book specifically describing end-time events and centering around God's coming wrath which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and which will be brought to an end by the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
God obviously wanted us to know this information, for the very first verse says: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God the Father gave to Him to show His servants the things which must suddenly come to pass."
Those things which must suddenly come to pass is referring to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and all related information. In addition, there is a blessing for those who read the words of this prophecy and for those who hear it and keep (guard, observe, watch over, maintain, preserve) it. Revelation is also the only book which specifically mentions a curse for those who add to or take away from the words of this book:
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."
Furthermore, there are many prophesies and other books dedicated to end-time events, such as the book of Daniel, which I refer to as a sister book to Revelation. All of that said, I believe that it is God's will for those who belong to Him to know this information that He gave to us and to know it well. And the only way to do that is to study it and as you call it "to be obsessed with it."
One very important aspect of End-Time events is the appearing of the Lord to gather His church according to His promise found in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess.4:13-18. This is every believers "Blessed Hope," or at least it should be. One of the problems in these last days, is that many are not looking for this bless hope, the appearing of our Lord. Following the gathering of the church is when the antichrist will be revealed and God's wrath will begin to be poured out upon a Christ rejecting world, culminating with the return of the Lord to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
The conclusion is that, every believer should be obsessed with the word of God, including end-time events. The more we see the stage being set for the time of God's wrath and the revealing of the antichrist, the closer the church is to going home, which must take place first because believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. For Jesus already suffered the wrath of God on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.
God obviously wanted us to know this information, for the very first verse says: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God the Father gave to Him to show His servants the things which must suddenly come to pass."
Those things which must suddenly come to pass is referring to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and all related information. In addition, there is a blessing for those who read the words of this prophecy and for those who hear it and keep (guard, observe, watch over, maintain, preserve) it. Revelation is also the only book which specifically mentions a curse for those who add to or take away from the words of this book:
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."
Furthermore, there are many prophesies and other books dedicated to end-time events, such as the book of Daniel, which I refer to as a sister book to Revelation. All of that said, I believe that it is God's will for those who belong to Him to know this information that He gave to us and to know it well. And the only way to do that is to study it and as you call it "to be obsessed with it."
One very important aspect of End-Time events is the appearing of the Lord to gather His church according to His promise found in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess.4:13-18. This is every believers "Blessed Hope," or at least it should be. One of the problems in these last days, is that many are not looking for this bless hope, the appearing of our Lord. Following the gathering of the church is when the antichrist will be revealed and God's wrath will begin to be poured out upon a Christ rejecting world, culminating with the return of the Lord to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
The conclusion is that, every believer should be obsessed with the word of God, including end-time events. The more we see the stage being set for the time of God's wrath and the revealing of the antichrist, the closer the church is to going home, which must take place first because believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. For Jesus already suffered the wrath of God on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.
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Regarding the title of this thread, a good example of the need to study end-time events, including the information regarding the mark of the beast is that, most Christians don't even under stand that the technology for the mark has been with us for several years!
When God first called me at age 14, I was immediately drawn to end-time events and still am. I had studied it enough to know that when the first ATM''s went up, I new that this was relevant to the mark technology. Following that came the Universal Product Code (UPC), followed by the Point of Sale system, which allowed everyone to begin to make their purchases (buying) by swiping their cards. There have been and are other methods such as FOB's and cell phone bank apps to perform the same function.
This electronic crediting and debiting system (buying and selling) is in place and has been evolving in preparation for that coming antichrist/beast and his mark. The direct technology for the mark is also here. Beginning in Sweden, businesses have been offering employees the option of having an RFID chip implanted under the skin of the hand for the purpose of building security, the use of company machines and making food purchases. This technology has now come to the US.
I believe that this RFID chip will continue to evolve into something more applicable, leading up to the revealing of the antichrist. When the time comes, all other methods of buying and selling such as cash, checks, card swiping, etc., will be made obsolete by the beasts kingdom, leaving his mark as the only valid means of electronic crediting and debiting an individuals bank account.
Yes, we should be obsessed with understanding end-time events, including the information God gave us regarding the mark. Like I said, many of those in Christ don't even understand where we are in regards to end-time events. They just think that this electronic crediting and debiting system is just man-made technology and nothing more.
Once this mark becomes the only valid means of electronic buying and selling, it will be that proverbial line being drawn in the sand. From that time forward there will be no gray area. No fence sitting. The choice will be reject it or receive it. Those who reject it will not be able to hold a job, pay their bills, mortgages, rents, food, gas, or buy anything at all. Those who will reject it, will be those tribulation saints, for they know that the beast and his mark will be against God. Those who do receive it to save their lives, will suffer the following in the lake of fire:
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Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” - NASB
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It's important for us to understand this information so that we can warn unbelievers about what is coming, as well as to other believers.
When God first called me at age 14, I was immediately drawn to end-time events and still am. I had studied it enough to know that when the first ATM''s went up, I new that this was relevant to the mark technology. Following that came the Universal Product Code (UPC), followed by the Point of Sale system, which allowed everyone to begin to make their purchases (buying) by swiping their cards. There have been and are other methods such as FOB's and cell phone bank apps to perform the same function.
This electronic crediting and debiting system (buying and selling) is in place and has been evolving in preparation for that coming antichrist/beast and his mark. The direct technology for the mark is also here. Beginning in Sweden, businesses have been offering employees the option of having an RFID chip implanted under the skin of the hand for the purpose of building security, the use of company machines and making food purchases. This technology has now come to the US.
I believe that this RFID chip will continue to evolve into something more applicable, leading up to the revealing of the antichrist. When the time comes, all other methods of buying and selling such as cash, checks, card swiping, etc., will be made obsolete by the beasts kingdom, leaving his mark as the only valid means of electronic crediting and debiting an individuals bank account.
Yes, we should be obsessed with understanding end-time events, including the information God gave us regarding the mark. Like I said, many of those in Christ don't even understand where we are in regards to end-time events. They just think that this electronic crediting and debiting system is just man-made technology and nothing more.
Once this mark becomes the only valid means of electronic buying and selling, it will be that proverbial line being drawn in the sand. From that time forward there will be no gray area. No fence sitting. The choice will be reject it or receive it. Those who reject it will not be able to hold a job, pay their bills, mortgages, rents, food, gas, or buy anything at all. Those who will reject it, will be those tribulation saints, for they know that the beast and his mark will be against God. Those who do receive it to save their lives, will suffer the following in the lake of fire:
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Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” - NASB
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It's important for us to understand this information so that we can warn unbelievers about what is coming, as well as to other believers.
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I personally think because of the time period we live in, we have the technological tools that matches the description concerning the mark of the beast, and the image of the beast as well, but this is my opinion based on evidence available currently.
Considering the time period we live in, I don't think it is a unhealthy obsession, because we could very well be witnessing the events that may actually bring about the enforcement of the mark of the beast, based on current evidence.
With the way society is and where we are headed, people have to be compatible in the society concerned, and the current generation we are living in, to put it very simply, people are being convinced that they need to be compatible with technology, or put another way, to merge with computers.
The guts of it is, if we live in a time period where this thing could be enforced, then we need to know what it is. We are seeing more and more sophisticated wireless technologies put into place (5g for example), where such technologies can be used for tracking people as well.
I think technologies like 5G, AI, Nanotech, RFID implants and Vaccines for example are all connected and play a role in the end times, but that is my opinion based on everything I have read to date.
In my personal opinion, when the time comes, those who ignore this prophecy, or those who mock this prophecy, you can bet such people will be hurrying to get their "mark".
My opinion, I see people will want to get it, and this is most troubling.
At the rate things are going, it wouldn't surprise me if those who warn others or teach not to accept the mark of the beast would be accused of promoting hate speech of some kind.
Considering the time period we live in, I don't think it is a unhealthy obsession, because we could very well be witnessing the events that may actually bring about the enforcement of the mark of the beast, based on current evidence.
With the way society is and where we are headed, people have to be compatible in the society concerned, and the current generation we are living in, to put it very simply, people are being convinced that they need to be compatible with technology, or put another way, to merge with computers.
The guts of it is, if we live in a time period where this thing could be enforced, then we need to know what it is. We are seeing more and more sophisticated wireless technologies put into place (5g for example), where such technologies can be used for tracking people as well.
I think technologies like 5G, AI, Nanotech, RFID implants and Vaccines for example are all connected and play a role in the end times, but that is my opinion based on everything I have read to date.
In my personal opinion, when the time comes, those who ignore this prophecy, or those who mock this prophecy, you can bet such people will be hurrying to get their "mark".
My opinion, I see people will want to get it, and this is most troubling.
At the rate things are going, it wouldn't surprise me if those who warn others or teach not to accept the mark of the beast would be accused of promoting hate speech of some kind.
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So your not obsessed. Good for you! I did say that MOST are not all. I agree that the Bible is one integrated system and certainly wouldn't advocate tossing out any of it. What I do maintain is that both Dispensationalism and full Preterism as complete systems
are false. Both have their roots in Jesuit Catholicism.
are false. Both have their roots in Jesuit Catholicism.
End time prophecies are not "conspiracy theories" although Satan has had a conspiracy against God, Christians, and the whole world ever since he came to be the Adversary. He wants to see everyone in Hell (the Lake of Fire) which was created for him and his evil angels.
1. There is no doubt that there is a NWO conspiracy afoot to enslave the whole world.
2. There is no doubt that the Resurrection/Rapture is a fundamental Bible doctrine.
3. There is doubt that there will be severe divine judgments coming upon the world.
4. There is no doubt that God will allow Satan and the Antichrist to take total control of the world for 3 1/2 years (42 months) in the future after the temple has been built in Jerusalem (which is in the works). Then the Mark of the Beast will be a reality.
5. And there is no doubt that some Christians and some preachers have placed an unhealthy focus on end times to the exclusion of other important doctrines.
At the same time the primary focus of Christians at this time in history (which is also the time of the Great Apostasy) should be the fulfillment of the Great Commission, and the edification of the saints.
1. There is no doubt that there is a NWO conspiracy afoot to enslave the whole world.
2. There is no doubt that the Resurrection/Rapture is a fundamental Bible doctrine.
3. There is doubt that there will be severe divine judgments coming upon the world.
4. There is no doubt that God will allow Satan and the Antichrist to take total control of the world for 3 1/2 years (42 months) in the future after the temple has been built in Jerusalem (which is in the works). Then the Mark of the Beast will be a reality.
5. And there is no doubt that some Christians and some preachers have placed an unhealthy focus on end times to the exclusion of other important doctrines.
At the same time the primary focus of Christians at this time in history (which is also the time of the Great Apostasy) should be the fulfillment of the Great Commission, and the edification of the saints.
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The Lord has been gathering his Church for 2000 plus years. Instead of warning the unsaved about micro chips we should be telling them about salvation and eternal life. Whatever views we have concerning the last days and the second coming we are all part of
the body of Christ although from some of your past posts I have the impression that anyone who disagrees with your eschatological position are not even Christian. You on the other hand and those who share your view of things seem this special Pauline revelation from the Holy Spirit that sets you apart from the rest of Christs flock. You will be raptured and us unenlightened souls will go through the tribulation as '' tribulation Saints'' I was taught that being a Saint meant being set apart and made Holy. It appears that to you set apart doesn't include the tribulation and wrath you so often mention.
By way of a challenge I ask you to confirm or deny that myself and anyone else who holds a different view regarding these matters
are in christ a part of the body, born again and Sons of God through faith in the finished work of christ. I will be interested in reading
your reply assuming there will be one.
the body of Christ although from some of your past posts I have the impression that anyone who disagrees with your eschatological position are not even Christian. You on the other hand and those who share your view of things seem this special Pauline revelation from the Holy Spirit that sets you apart from the rest of Christs flock. You will be raptured and us unenlightened souls will go through the tribulation as '' tribulation Saints'' I was taught that being a Saint meant being set apart and made Holy. It appears that to you set apart doesn't include the tribulation and wrath you so often mention.
By way of a challenge I ask you to confirm or deny that myself and anyone else who holds a different view regarding these matters
are in christ a part of the body, born again and Sons of God through faith in the finished work of christ. I will be interested in reading
your reply assuming there will be one.
Personally, I don't believe a Preterist view means that you are not a saved Christian. Just wrong is all. If you are in Christ, you will be raptured, regardless of an erroneous belief about the rapture. The tribulation Saints are those that will BECOME Christian DURING the tribulation.
But I think we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. I can give people the Gospel unto Salvation, AND be ready to answer their questions about one of the most well known passages of the Bible, even in secular circles. I'm referring to the mark of the beast, and the number 666.
People that know NOTHING else in the Bible know those passages and we need to be prepared to give answer.
But I think we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. I can give people the Gospel unto Salvation, AND be ready to answer their questions about one of the most well known passages of the Bible, even in secular circles. I'm referring to the mark of the beast, and the number 666.
People that know NOTHING else in the Bible know those passages and we need to be prepared to give answer.
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How many bodies or Brides do you think Christ has? Paul speaks of one body with many parts. With the Pre Trib view Christ
ends up with one body/Bride with him and another forming on earth. Fact is the term ''Tribulation Saint'' in the sense of
another post rapture group going through the tribulation is found nowhere in scripture. Its an invention needed to explain
why the passage in Revelation can have a vision of martyred people coming out of the tribulation when according to
Pre Tribs the Church has already been raptured.
The simple and Biblical explanation is that the Church is still here during the tribulation period and the Antichrist is persecuting and
killing its members. The rapture happens at the sound of the seventh trumpet which announces Christs return. those who are alive meet him in the air an escort him and the righteous dead back to Earth arriving at the mount of Olives.
ends up with one body/Bride with him and another forming on earth. Fact is the term ''Tribulation Saint'' in the sense of
another post rapture group going through the tribulation is found nowhere in scripture. Its an invention needed to explain
why the passage in Revelation can have a vision of martyred people coming out of the tribulation when according to
Pre Tribs the Church has already been raptured.
The simple and Biblical explanation is that the Church is still here during the tribulation period and the Antichrist is persecuting and
killing its members. The rapture happens at the sound of the seventh trumpet which announces Christs return. those who are alive meet him in the air an escort him and the righteous dead back to Earth arriving at the mount of Olives.
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The Rapture and Second Coming are clearly 2 separate events in Scripture:
Contrasts Between the Rapture and the Second Coming: This from Gotquestions answers with Scripture the difference:
The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.
The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:
1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).
2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).
4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).
Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?
1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).
3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).
The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.
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But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night in which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat and the works that are therein shall be burned up
seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved what manner of persons
ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness looking for and hasting unto
the coming of the day of the Lord wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. Nevertheless we according to his promise
look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness Wherefore beloved
seeing that ye look for such things be diligent that ye may be found in him without spot
and blameless.
11 Peter 3:10-14 KJV
But the times and seasons brethren ye have no need that I write unto you
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh like a thief
in the night. For when they say peace and safety then sudden destruction
cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not
escape. But ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should overtake you
as a thief
1 Thess 5:1-4 KJV
In both these passages we are told that the day of the Lord is coming like a thief'
According to both Peter and Paul there is to be no silent secret coming but sudden
destruction and the universe falling apart. There is no mention of a secret silent
coming in either passage only a sudden unexpected one and no indication that
either Apostles were looking for a secret rapture either
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat and the works that are therein shall be burned up
seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved what manner of persons
ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness looking for and hasting unto
the coming of the day of the Lord wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. Nevertheless we according to his promise
look for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness Wherefore beloved
seeing that ye look for such things be diligent that ye may be found in him without spot
and blameless.
11 Peter 3:10-14 KJV
But the times and seasons brethren ye have no need that I write unto you
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh like a thief
in the night. For when they say peace and safety then sudden destruction
cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not
escape. But ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should overtake you
as a thief
1 Thess 5:1-4 KJV
In both these passages we are told that the day of the Lord is coming like a thief'
According to both Peter and Paul there is to be no silent secret coming but sudden
destruction and the universe falling apart. There is no mention of a secret silent
coming in either passage only a sudden unexpected one and no indication that
either Apostles were looking for a secret rapture either
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