Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[KelbyofGod]

Well, when I became a christian in 1987 i met in the beginning also believers from penteostal church who told me about this baptising and speaking in tongues. And I have asked my father in heaven if this teaching is right, i want have this speaking in tongues, too.
Well, i did not got it and i find no wrong in it to get it not.
Since I became a christian, I also could identify if some teaching is wrong. I met in the beginning many people from cults and strange believings
which want to convince me from their believe. I always " felt" that their is something wrong. In this time i did not know much about christianity.
The same " feeling" i got concern this teaching about the baptising with the Holy Spirit and the evidence is the speaking in tongues.
When I now recognize that this teaching was not taught in the bible and was not realized in the churchhistory till 1901, then i have no reason to trust that this teaching is from God.
Doing healings, miracles and speakimg in tongues is no realy a proof that something is from God. Jesus himself said this.
And when i then realize that millions of "spiritfilled"believers have no problem to accept the f.e.RCC doctrine, ore that woman become eldest, ore preach a health and wealth gospel. I cant believe that the same Spirit is behind, as the Spirit who is said from that he comes for to teach the truth.

This teaching splittet christianity in spiritfilled(speaking in tongues) and not spiritfilled(do not speak in tongues)
And they proclaime a teaching that someone who can speak in tongues cam be more intimate with God then somebody who speaks not in tongues.

But it is interesting that in the moral and ethik behaviour is no different between a believer who speaks in tongues and and a believer who does not.

Thank you for all your explaining, but this teaching i cant find from our heavenly father.

I forgot to include the part about the Roman Catholic Church, but I also don't know what all doctrines they hold.

 

[wolfwint]

completely opinionated and based on personal experience. Did not see one Biblical context or verse to support the claim. I see I asked God for something He did not do it. 12 times you use "I", yet not one verse. You suggest one divides, accepts RCC doctrine? Acts chapter 2, 1cor chapter 12 to 14 Jesus words HIMSELF in Matt and in Mark are they RCC doctrine? You are just a bias person.

Thank you, how you should react different as you did? I asked several times for scripture which shows that this doctrine was taught in the bible,to other believer, but no one could show me. Otherwise I would believe it.
You believe to an man made doctrine.
Why I should do also?

 

[Waggles]

Thank God there are other people out there seeking the truth, seeking something real with God …
my sheep hear my voice
go out into the highways and byways and bring them to the marriage feast.

 

[wolfwint]

This quote feels a lot more like something that a person can answer in a friendly way rather than with a scriptural line in the sand....and I appreciate it. I hope it's OK that I paraphrase it back to you to see if I understand it in a way where we will be starting at a place of agreement. Here's what I heard:

1. You discovered and believed in Jesus in 1987.
2. When you met some pentecostals and they told you about speaking in tongues as a part of baptism in the Holy Ghost, you were open to receive it as long as it was from God.
3. However, you did not receive it at that time.
4. You also did not see it as a scriptural necessity.
5. Since becoming a christian you have met many cults and feel confident that you can tell when something is wrong.
6. You get the same feeling that something is wrong about the doctrine that speaking in tongues is a necessity.
7. That, plus the fact that you don't see it in historical documents or spelled out in the bible, leads you to conclude that it is not necessary.

8. Miracles do not guarantee Godliness
9. Speaking in tongues is a divisive doctrine, if preached as a necessity. Especially when they claim a deeper level of intimacy w/God.
10. In real life, tongues-speakers don't seem to live any better than any other proclaiming christian. Sometimes even worse.

Is that a fair summary of what you said? (I only numbered them so it would be easy for you to say "Number 'X' is wrong". Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Thank you for your numbering. So far you understand me right. Some points I have to more clarify.
No 4. I dont see a scriptual teaching.
No 5. feel confident is maby not the right description. Is something in me is making me thinking this is not from God. I would say the Holy Spirit in me.
To 6. Yes, the same says, that this teaching is not right.
To 7: Yes, but the right word is: wrong; rather then nesassary.
To 9: the teaching that speaking in tongues is the proof that someone is filled ore baptised with the Holy Spirit divides christianity. You can see also in CC.

And to add, many spiritfilled believers have no difficulties to accept false teachings( f.e. RCC theologie )

I can understand that this is difficult to understand for someone who raised up in pentecostal ore charismatic background. And i dont wright this for to attack someone.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Pentecostals do not teach that you must be baptized in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues to be a "real believer". There may be a minority group out there, an ignorant extremist, who might say such a thing. but they do not express the views of most Pentecostals. The examples in Acts are of believers who are already born again receiving this gift. The largest Pentecostal group Assemblies of God (70 million worldwide) have published doctrinal papers on this subject and they are worth reading. They make it clear that they believe a person is born again by faith in Jesus Christ and that the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in the believer at that time and that person is saved or a "real believer". This is not the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to receive power to be a witness. When people make the accusation that Pentecostals teach that you have to speak in tongues to be saved I often wonder if they actually heard someone make such a stupid statement or if they are just making that accusation up on the fly in an attempt to get people to agree with their views. As if they are hoping people will believe that Pentecostals teach that, when they know they do not. Like the Judaizers accusing Paul of teaching something extreme that they knew he did not teach but spreading the lies anyway just to turn people away from hearing anything he preached.
Now you may have heard that speaking in tongues is the biblical evidence that one was baptized in the Holy Ghost. I challenge you to search the scriptures in Acts and come up with better scriptural evidence. The following passage from Acts tells us that speaking in tongues was how Peter knew they had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

I know it can be divisive to make dogmatic statements that are not found in the scriptures such as "..with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues" however if we take a step back and reexamine the question "What is the biblical pattern that occurred in the book of Acts when believers were Baptized in the Holy Ghost?" And I think we can safely say "most of the time they spoke in tongues." Remember this is not the born again experience but a separate secondary work of grace. At least it appears to be so when we examine the scriptures.

Paul even says that not all speak in tongues

consistently telling people you must speak in tongues, is in conflict with what he says in Corinthians

I don't understand it. you present scripture which they probably actually know and yet continue to state otherwise

IMO, this is also religion and not freedom. you bind people when you deviate from what is actually written

I'll take it a step further and state that 'fake' tongues are created in this manner as people feel pressured to reassure themselves and their 'teachers' that they too 'have' the Holy Spirit

 

[garee]

Thank God there are other people out there seeking the truth, seeking something real with God …
my sheep hear my voice
go out into the highways and byways and bring them to the marriage feast.

I think you meant seeking sign as wonderments .. Seeking something real with God as if God was a man as us and had real substance by which we could play the kingdom of God does come by observation. Who needs faith . Get it now while the supply lasts. …Wondering is not a source of faith.

Wondering could cause a person to fall backward in a hope someone will catch them . And yet for all that they still refuse to belive prophecy in any to include tongues.

Go back to step one the foundation of the doctrine of tongues .It as it is written won't bite.....prophecy heals

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

 

[Dino246]

I think you meant seeking sign as wonderments .. Seeking something real with God as if God was a man as us and had real substance by which we could play the kingdom of God does come by observation. Who needs faith . Get it now while the supply lasts. …Wondering is not a source of faith.

Wondering could cause a person to fall backward in a hope someone will catch them . And yet for all that they still refuse to belive prophecy in any to include tongues.

Go back to step one the foundation of the doctrine of tongues .It as it is written won't bite.....prophecy heals

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

Still misrepresenting the beliefs of others?

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

 

[garee]

Still misrepresenting the beliefs of others?

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

LOL Only with my wife. She is a picture of grace that loves hard, a true gift. Both needing prayer .

Don't you ever get tired of not answering. What does the sign of tongues as a law confirm? belief (faith) or unbelief (no faith) ? Can't love both masters.


What is tongues if not one of the manners God brought prophecy, the gospel and applied it to the heart of men,. They believed as a result of that work of God. 3, 000 experienced that work of God in the twinkling of the eye. There was no need to say go find a private interpretation of man .God's interpretation is a perfect law. it gives his understanding to us simple ones among other good works of God. No such thing as a sign gift .Spiritual unseen gifts like the manner of tongues revelations of God called prophecy. All of the same Spirit not the spirit of man .But the very breath of God as two walking together . .

Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

 

[CS1]

Thank you, how you should react different as you did? I asked several times for scripture which shows that this doctrine was taught in the bible,to other believer, but no one could show me. Otherwise I would believe it.
You believe to a man made doctrine.
Why I should do also?

YOU WERE SHOWN yet, you did not accept it. You were given in the Book Acts account where each person documented 1. speaking in tongues 2. or prophesying being empowered by the Holy Spirit. more than times in Acts it is shown. You did not accept what the Bible shows. You created a false narrative of " show me any of any of the church fathers teaching this doctrine". Only after you admitted their teaching are not authoritative. And hold those outsides of the Book of Acts as needing to teach what is clearly seen in the word of God.

You suggest we have devils, false teaching and now members of RCC and even a cult. Yet you did not provide any scripture to refute the doctrine you say is not in the word of God. Only attacks to discredit those who have had the wonderful experience seen in the word of God and what our Lord Jesus Christ said in Acts 1:8 and Mark 16 and in Matt 28. Then like a baby who asked a parent for something AND DID NOT GET WHAT THEY WANTED " THROWS a tantrum :

"when I became a christian in 1987 i met in the beginning also believers from penteostal church who told me about this baptising and speaking in tongues. And I have asked my father in heaven if this teaching is right, i want have this speaking in tongues, too.
Well, i did not got it "

 

[wolfwint]

YOU WERE SHOWN yet, you did not accept it. You were given in the Book Acts account where each person documented 1. speaking in tongues 2. or prophesying being empowered by the Holy Spirit. more than times in Acts it is shown. You did not accept what the Bible shows. You created a false narrative of " show me any of any of the church fathers teaching this doctrine". Only after you admitted their teaching are not authoritative. And hold those outsides of the Book of Acts as needing to teach what is clearly seen in the word of God.

You suggest we have devils, false teaching and now members of RCC and even a cult. Yet you did not provide any scripture to refute the doctrine you say is not in the word of God. Only attacks to discredit those who have had the wonderful experience seen in the word of God and what our Lord Jesus Christ said in Acts 1:8 and Mark 16 and in Matt 28. Then like a baby who asked a parent for something AND DID NOT GET WHAT THEY WANTED " THROWS a tantrum :

"when I became a christian in 1987 i met in the beginning also believers from penteostal church who told me about this baptising and speaking in tongues. And I have asked my father in heaven if this teaching is right, i want have this speaking in tongues, too.
Well, i did not got it "

I just wrote why i dont believe this doctrine. If you believe it, do it. Everybody has to follow what he thinks that is right.
And please be fair and dont read in my writing what i dont had wrote.

 

[CS1]

I just wrote why i dont believe this doctrine. If you believe it, do it. Everybody has to follow what he thinks that is right.
And please be fair and dont read in my writing what i dont had wrote.

if you say yes you have to be baptized in Jesus name ONLY to be saved, then say God is the Judge, you judged.

 

[CS1]

I just wrote why i dont believe this doctrine. If you believe it, do it. Everybody has to follow what he thinks that is right.
And please be fair and dont read in my writing what i dont had wrote.

I repeated what you said are you really going to be dishonest?

 

[wolfwint]

if you say yes you have to be baptized in Jesus name ONLY to be saved, then say God is the Judge, you judged.

I am baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Thank God there are other people out there seeking the truth, seeking something real with God …
my sheep hear my voice
go out into the highways and byways and bring them to the marriage feast.

yes

and one of those truths would be that NOT ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES

you are in direct conflict with scripture every single time you say otherwise

you can put x's on everyone's post until the cows come home, but you are in direct conflict with scripture

do you not understand that Paul says differently? do you think you know more or perhaps your church elders know better?

I cannot fathom how someone who professes such knowledge of all things spiritual can insist that what is taught in their church is correct while the Bible is wrong

you really should check that attitude somewhere

high expectations of receiving another little token of your disapproval

 

[wolfwint]

YOU WERE SHOWN yet, you did not accept it. You were given in the Book Acts account where each person documented 1. speaking in tongues 2. or prophesying being empowered by the Holy Spirit. more than times in Acts it is shown. You did not accept what the Bible shows. You created a false narrative of " show me any of any of the church fathers teaching this doctrine". Only after you admitted their teaching are not authoritative. And hold those outsides of the Book of Acts as needing to teach what is clearly seen in the word of God.

You suggest we have devils, false teaching and now members of RCC and even a cult. Yet you did not provide any scripture to refute the doctrine you say is not in the word of God. Only attacks to discredit those who have had the wonderful experience seen in the word of God and what our Lord Jesus Christ said in Acts 1:8 and Mark 16 and in Matt 28. Then like a baby who asked a parent for something AND DID NOT GET WHAT THEY WANTED " THROWS a tantrum :

"when I became a christian in 1987 i met in the beginning also believers from penteostal church who told me about this baptising and speaking in tongues. And I have asked my father in heaven if this teaching is right, i want have this speaking in tongues, too.
Well, i did not got it "

Where i said you have mebers of RCC and Cults on CC?

If you cant find a teaching founded on the scripture, how you Call it then?
This teaching we Talk about was not taught in the scripture. But began in around 1900. What reason i should have to trust this teaching?

 

[Waggles]

and one of those truths would be that NOT ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES
you are in direct conflict with scripture every single time you say otherwise

No you are.
You are not reading scripture correctly.
All true worshippers speak in tongues as the evidence [sign] of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Paul in Corinthians is teaching the wayward Corinthians about the operation of the voice gifts in a church meeting.

Your church would of course be operating the voice gifts in accord with the teachings of Paul?
Diversity of tongues, followed by an interpretation. And then the gift of prophecy.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No you are.
You are not reading scripture correctly.
All true worshippers speak in tongues as the evidence [sign] of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Paul in Corinthians is teaching the wayward Corinthians about the operation of the voice gifts in a church meeting.

Your church would of course be operating the voice gifts in accord with the teachings of Paul?
Diversity of tongues, followed by an interpretation. And then the gift of prophecy.

I understand your need to be right

you would have to apologize to alot of people and change how you think and act and that would really upset your little world

you defy scripture and yet have the nerve to talk about 'true worshippers'

dude...Paul was correcting wayward BELIEVERS for all time.

such as yourself

at least now I know why you dismiss what he says about tongues. he never says all Corinthians do not speak in tongues

he says believers and does not distinguish between geological locations, but speaks to ALL

you can take that to your church leaders because they need to see it

 

[Waggles]

You just keep on getting it wrong.

 

[CS1]

I am baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

then answer the question

 

[wolfwint]

then answer the question

Which question?