APOTHEOSIS
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I made a post based upon 30 years of intensive study....you know me and KNOW I do not shoot from the hip and what did you do....attack just like the one you rebuked.......you had no intention of discussing as evidenced by your first post.....I said I was NOT going to ARGUE.....I did not say I was not willing to DISCUSS.........so..whatever man
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Bro you know I have stated a few times that I stand corrected.....and I have always been open to a change of mind.....I just know what I have concluded based upon 30 to 60 plus hours a week of study on this issue for almost 30 years and Changing my MIND due to scripture, history, etc.......I KNOW this does not make me right......this is what I SEE.....cannot help it
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It was your comment that no one could change your view that got on my nerve bro. Thats arrogant, and was not even called for.
Especially on a topic which is non salvic.
I am trying to show you something, take whatever you want out of it. If it makes you mad so be it. It was uncalled for.
It did not add to your post
It did not prove your post was right
It was self centered (whether we like it or not it is)
And it does not open up conversation. All it does is put peoples defenses up.
And why should I disuss? You said no one could change your view. That ITSELF shuts off all discussion. Or in my mind, showed you had no desire to discuss..
If I came and did that, I would hope you as a brother would chasten me and call me out for my arrogance.
Especially on a topic which is non salvic.
I am trying to show you something, take whatever you want out of it. If it makes you mad so be it. It was uncalled for.
It did not add to your post
It did not prove your post was right
It was self centered (whether we like it or not it is)
And it does not open up conversation. All it does is put peoples defenses up.
And why should I disuss? You said no one could change your view. That ITSELF shuts off all discussion. Or in my mind, showed you had no desire to discuss..
If I came and did that, I would hope you as a brother would chasten me and call me out for my arrogance.
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2 THESSALONIANS 2:7
Greek Text (both the Received and the Critical texts are identical)
τὸ γὰρ μυστήριον ἤδη ἐνεργεῖται τῆς ἀνομίας· μόνον ὁ κατέχων ἄρτι ἕως ἐκ μέσου γένηται
Strong's Concordance
katechó: to hold fast, hold back
Original Word: κατέχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katechó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ekh'-o)
Definition: to hold fast, hold back
Usage: (a) I hold fast, bind, arrest, (b) I take possession of, lay hold of, (c) I hold back, detain, restrain, (d) I hold a ship, keep its head.
King James Bible
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
New American Standard Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way.
All three translations say the same thing, and identify the Restrainer as a Person.
Who is this Person who can restrain the mystery of iniquity, which includes the worldwide worship of Satan and the Antichrist?
We go to the book of Job and see that God is the Restrainer of Satan. Satan was barred from killing Job, and that is what we see in this book.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, thatthere is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. (Job 2:3-6)
Greek Text (both the Received and the Critical texts are identical)
τὸ γὰρ μυστήριον ἤδη ἐνεργεῖται τῆς ἀνομίας· μόνον ὁ κατέχων ἄρτι ἕως ἐκ μέσου γένηται
Strong's Concordance
katechó: to hold fast, hold back
Original Word: κατέχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katechó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ekh'-o)
Definition: to hold fast, hold back
Usage: (a) I hold fast, bind, arrest, (b) I take possession of, lay hold of, (c) I hold back, detain, restrain, (d) I hold a ship, keep its head.
King James Bible
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
New American Standard Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way.
All three translations say the same thing, and identify the Restrainer as a Person.
Who is this Person who can restrain the mystery of iniquity, which includes the worldwide worship of Satan and the Antichrist?
We go to the book of Job and see that God is the Restrainer of Satan. Satan was barred from killing Job, and that is what we see in this book.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, thatthere is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. (Job 2:3-6)
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Ok bro
Please stop with all the years of study you claim, That to just gets on peoples nerves. And does not prove anything,
I have read commentaries from people who have doctorate degrees in theology and have spent decades studying things, and they still get things wrong.
It is better to just post scripture. Discuss what you think that scripture means, and let people discuss it with you and discuss back. .
Puffing yourself up as you MUST be RIGHT because you studied all those years. Does not help. (I am being honest bro, that is what I hear every time you say these things)
Is this better than those who claim the church NEVER believed the way you do. So you must be wrong? (History all the way back to rome)
I am trying to be a brother and help. Not judge you..
Please stop with all the years of study you claim, That to just gets on peoples nerves. And does not prove anything,
I have read commentaries from people who have doctorate degrees in theology and have spent decades studying things, and they still get things wrong.
It is better to just post scripture. Discuss what you think that scripture means, and let people discuss it with you and discuss back. .
Puffing yourself up as you MUST be RIGHT because you studied all those years. Does not help. (I am being honest bro, that is what I hear every time you say these things)
Is this better than those who claim the church NEVER believed the way you do. So you must be wrong? (History all the way back to rome)
I am trying to be a brother and help. Not judge you..
YEP...does not say the Holy Spirit is the ONE....
Letteth -->Hold down, POSSESS, SEIZE, RETAIN, TAKE
TAKEN-->cause to BE, to become, come into being, be assembled, brought to pass, to arise
LET-->HAVE, HOLDS FAST
ONLY HE that NOW POSSESSES, HOLDS DOWN, RETAINS WILL continue to HAVE or HOLD FAST until HE is ASSEMBLED, ARISES, COMES INTO BEING
WHO is the POWER behind the rise of the MAN of SIN, SON of PERDITION?
COMING --> ADVENT, by implication PHYSICAL COMING or PRESENCE
WORKING-->ENERGY, OPERATION, EFFECTUAL WORKING, EMPOWERING, ENABLING
EVEN HIM, WHOSE ADVENT or PHYSICAL COMING is after the EFFECTUAL WORKING POWER of SATAN
NOW translate that.....it is not the HOLY SPIRIT restraining...........the power behind it is SATAN and HE WILL HOLD THAT POWER until the ONE that is to BE COMES ON THE SCENE
NO WHERE does it say it is the HOLY SPIRIT restraining.....another fallacy invented by the imminent return doctrine......
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U
I think we are allowed to make the point that we have invested time to come to a conclusion, it does add credibility,
and while you state many things that I too have learned over the years, looking through the futurist lens I cannot see New York being Babylon although at one time it did cross my mind, but it does not fit scripture on all points that I can see. imho
and while you state many things that I too have learned over the years, looking through the futurist lens I cannot see New York being Babylon although at one time it did cross my mind, but it does not fit scripture on all points that I can see. imho
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I think we are allowed to make the point that we have invested time to come to a conclusion, it does add credibility,
and while you state many things that I too have learned over the years, looking through the futurist lens I cannot see New York being Babylon although at one time it did cross my mind, but it does not fit scripture on all points that I can see. imho
and while you state many things that I too have learned over the years, looking through the futurist lens I cannot see New York being Babylon although at one time it did cross my mind, but it does not fit scripture on all points that I can see. imho
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Just gonna throw this out.......for every ONE prophecy concerning the 1st coming of Christ there are EIGHT that deal with his second coming.....
WHY is it the MOST misunderstood and argued topic.....as much as we know about the 1st coming we should KNOW Eight TIMES more about the second...........
and this is a VERY hard truth.....in my 52 years with 45 of that BEING in churches with believers of every level of maturity and faithfulness I have found that MOST...probably as high as 95% will ARGUE what they have been ALWAYS taught or BELIEVED without one ounce of personal, indepth study beyond an occasional cursory read of the bible.........
Not saying this to stir anger and or arguments.....it is just a simple fact.......and I personally know pastors in probably 15 to 20 different states and 5 different countries and they have all said the same thing...............
The bible leads to ONE conclusion concerning every truth that can be dug out..........just saying..........sure we can come from twenty different directions in learning that ONE truth, however ONE truth is exactly what IT HOLDS and lays bare......
WHY is it the MOST misunderstood and argued topic.....as much as we know about the 1st coming we should KNOW Eight TIMES more about the second...........
and this is a VERY hard truth.....in my 52 years with 45 of that BEING in churches with believers of every level of maturity and faithfulness I have found that MOST...probably as high as 95% will ARGUE what they have been ALWAYS taught or BELIEVED without one ounce of personal, indepth study beyond an occasional cursory read of the bible.........
Not saying this to stir anger and or arguments.....it is just a simple fact.......and I personally know pastors in probably 15 to 20 different states and 5 different countries and they have all said the same thing...............
The bible leads to ONE conclusion concerning every truth that can be dug out..........just saying..........sure we can come from twenty different directions in learning that ONE truth, however ONE truth is exactly what IT HOLDS and lays bare......
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