What about those who cannot believe in God?

[oyster67]

Such honest skeptics create problems for the wannabe Christian witness, but the potential to lead them to Christ must begin with a humble acknowledgement that we often have no idea why they can't experience the Holy Spirit drawing them to Himself.

You tell them they are honest skeptics when you should actually be telling them that they are lost and confused sinners who cannot see because they refuse to let someone turn the lights on.

I suggest that you stop trying to disempower your brethren, who are trying to fulfil the great commission, by calling them "wannabe Christian witnesses". When a man becomes a Christian, he 'oughtabee' Christian witnessing, and he oughta not have to deal with you throwing rotten tomatoes at him.

 

[Dino246]

Evangelicals find honest skeptics a threat to their faith. So they disingenuously try to remove the threat by imputing intellectual dishonesty to honest seekers who just find the evidence for evolution for more convincing than what they perceive as crude and implausible biblical creation myths and who view the Bible as full of contradictions, historical errors, and legends. Most of them have never seen a provable miracle and they reason that if God can't do it now, there is no reason to believe that He performed even greater miracles in ancient Israel. They look at the lives of professing Christians and see no evidence of spiritual transformation that warrants further investigation. Such honest skeptics create problems for the wannabe Christian witness, but the potential to lead them to Christ must begin with a humble acknowledgement that we often have no idea why they can't experience the Holy Spirit drawing them to Himself.

The problem I've found with so-called honest skeptics is that they aren't honest with themselves. They are logically inconsistent, use fallacious reasoning, and generally have two standards. Unfortunately, like most people, they also don't appreciate it when their reasoning is challenged, because it makes them look foolish.

 

[posthuman]

The problem I've found with so-called honest skeptics is that they aren't honest with themselves.

Sometimes it's ignorance, too. they don't know Him. they judge what they think is a religion based on false pretenses, the scripture which they have not read and do not understand, and a belief based on people who profess it - sometimes people who actually don't do they things they say they believe, or who have false religions themselves.

 

[MadHermit]

Nehemiah6: "That is hardly the case, since Christians are not looking to skeptics to establish their faith. "

On the contrary, evengelicals are unglued by the realization that intelligent unbelievers can be just as intellectually honest, indeed often more honest in their truth seeking than Christians are. It is the height of arrogance to assume that dissent in the face of your witness must be willful blindess, when you don't know the skeptic's heart!

Nehemiah: "And skeptics are essentially dishonest, since they must either believe the record that God has given of His Son, or disbelieve it. But it is wilful blindness , since there is sufficient internal evidence within the Bible that it is divine revelation."

Spoken like a naïve denizen of the Fundamentalist Ghetto, who just needs to get out more and listen to real skeptics pour out sensible grounds for their inability to believe the Bible. The Bible is an irrelevant collection of tribal legends to a skeptic unless he is illumined by the Holy Spirit to discern how biblical truth applies to him. But sadly, no such illumination generally occurs, perhaps because Christians treat prayer as a dispensible pious hobby.

 

[posthuman]

like a naïve denizen

i am glad that you returned to the forum, and that you use diaeresis.

 

[dcontroversal]

I know many people who are morally good, but fail to believe in God, even though they try to do so. What about them?

They die lost <----Romans....ALL are without excuse....and there is NONE good no not one

 

[dcontroversal]

I am suspicious that the truth about someone who says "I really want to believe in God but I just can't" is very different from what they say.

Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The words "can not" would imply that they don't have the ability based on some force against their will. The problem there is that there can be no will toward God except that the spirit grant faith in other words as Jesus said," no man comes to me except the father brings him". The truth of that person is that the Father has drawn them and they refuse, not that they want to be with Jesus and the Father has rejected them. Also it is written that he will not turn away anyone who calls on his name. So the can not is his own will not to believe because of some deep seated rejection with in himself.

 

[Lanolin]

Nehemiah6: "That is hardly the case, since Christians are not looking to skeptics to establish their faith. "

On the contrary, evengelicals are unglued by the realization that intelligent unbelievers can be just as intellectually honest, indeed often more honest in their truth seeking than Christians are. It is the height of arrogance to assume that dissent in the face of your witness must be willful blindess, when you don't know the skeptic's heart!

Nehemiah: "And skeptics are essentially dishonest, since they must either believe the record that God has given of His Son, or disbelieve it. But it is wilful blindness , since there is sufficient internal evidence within the Bible that it is divine revelation."

Spoken like a naïve denizen of the Fundamentalist Ghetto, who just needs to get out more and listen to real skeptics pour out sensible grounds for their inability to believe the Bible. The Bible is an irrelevant collection of tribal legends to a skeptic unless he is illumined by the Holy Spirit to discern how biblical truth applies to him. But sadly, no such illumination generally occurs, perhaps because Christians treat prayer as a dispensible pious hobby.

What christians are you talking about cos I dont know any like that, maybe catholics (sorry catholics, but your hail marys, rosaries and novenas and prayers to saints seem just for show) but not born again christians.

 

[rstrats]

This topic seems to be based on the idea that beliefs can be consciously chosen. But since this is not possible, what is a person suppose to do?

 

[MattforJesus]

I know many people who are morally good, but fail to believe in God, even though they try to do so. What about them?

God is a fair God, and will judge all people of the world, so that means that everybody has the chance to know the truth, and be saved, for it would make no sense to judge people that could not come to the truth, for how can they be blamed.

The Bible says that God wants all people everywhere to repent, and come to the knowledge of the truth, and be saved.

And the Spirit, and bride say Come, and anybody that wants that salvation can have it, but there are some that say that some people cannot come to the truth, and do not have a choice, which is wrong.

And Jesus lights every person that is born in the world, and the darkness does not comprehend the light, which means everybody has the chance to see the light of Jesus, and escape the darkness they were in.

But not everybody has heard the word of God, and has not heard about Jesus, and His salvation.

But they too will be judged, and have no excuse, for all people will be judged.

We are saved by our love towards other people, and our love towards God, for love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The 2 greatest commandments, love God, and love people, is what the saints go by to be pleasing to God to the saving of their souls, which they can do that because they have the Spirit.

And we have a choice between good, and evil, and our conscience bears witness of our actions.

The Bible says that creation testifies that there is a God, and of His attributes, which one of them is love, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter, and cover the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people, for if this higher power created all things, and loves people, then people should love this higher power, and love the people that He loves.

So the world is without excuse for not believing in a God, for creation testifies of it.

So to people that do not believe in a God there is no salvation, and they do not have an excuse.

But people that have not heard the word of God, or not sufficiently, will be judged after the millennial reign of Christ, and if they believed in a higher power that is love, and loved people by not offending them, and asked God for forgiveness if anything is amiss for they do not have any words from Him, then they should be saved.

They cannot dwell with God, and Jesus, until after the millennial reign, for they did not know about the truth of the word of God, but can be with God, and Jesus, after the millennial reign, for they went by the 2 greatest commandments, love God, and love people.

But people that rejected the truth will not be saved.

People that do not believe in a God, and people that rejected the truth will not be saved, and the people that did not hear the word of God, or not sufficiently some can be saved, and some will not be saved.

 

[oyster67]

This topic seems to be based on the idea that beliefs can be consciously chosen. But since this is not possible, what is a person suppose to do?

Choose total surrender to Jesus' lordship and love. Come just as you are.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Evangelicals find honest skeptics a threat to their faith. So they disingenuously try to remove the threat by imputing intellectual dishonesty to honest seekers who just find the evidence for evolution for more convincing than what they perceive as crude and implausible biblical creation myths and who view the Bible as full of contradictions, historical errors, and legends. Most of them have never seen a provable miracle and they reason that if God can't do it now, there is no reason to believe that He performed even greater miracles in ancient Israel. They look at the lives of professing Christians and see no evidence of spiritual transformation that warrants further investigation. Such honest skeptics create problems for the wannabe Christian witness, but the potential to lead them to Christ must begin with a humble acknowledgement that we often have no idea why they can't experience the Holy Spirit drawing them to Himself.

WOW MadHermit, I don't know what your experiences have been like with "Evangelicals" (obviously), but they must have been horrible ones for you to have written what you just did. I've know a ton of brothers and sisters in Christ who describe themselves as such, but the entirety of the broad brush points that you just made about them could not be used to describe any of the Evangelicals that I've had the pleasure to know and serve with over the last 33 years.

In fact, what you just said seems so far off base that it leaves me wondering if we're talking about the same group of people?

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

I know many people who are morally good, but fail to believe in God, even though they try to do so. What about them?

Hi LW97, I believe your description was true of me (for the first thirty years of my life anyway, and particularly in my 20's). Fortunately, I had family members and friends who faithfully prayed for me and for my salvation for years, and the Lord eventually brought a number of Christians into my life, and two of them, in particular, patiently and lovingly presented the Gospel to me.

So what do we do about "them" (about people like me)? I think that we must begin or continue to 1. faithfully pray for them and 2. bring the Savior and the faith to bear in their lives, both by word and by deed as the Lord gives us opportunity. After all, faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ .. Romans 10:17. However, the words we use, though they be they truth, may amount to nothing at all (according to St. Paul) if we do not speak the truth .. in love to those who so desperately need to hear them .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 13:1; cf Ephesians 4:15.

~Deut

​

 

[MadHermit]

oyster67,: "You tell them they are honest skeptics when you should actually be telling them that they are lost and confused sinners who cannot see because they refuse to let someone turn the lights on. I suggest that you stop trying to disempower your brethren, who are trying to fulfil the great commission, by calling them "wannabe Christian witnesses". When a man becomes a Christian, he 'oughtabee' Christian witnessing, and he oughta not have to deal with you throwing rotten tomatoes at him."

And that false and judgmental attitude is precisely the one that alienates them from the Gospel and ruins the chances of a more sensitive witness to make progress.
I have helped lead skeptics to Christ on the internet. Have you?
I have often witnessed in the street and door to door. Have you?

 

[rstrats]

oyster67,
re: "Choose total surrender to Jesus' lordship and love."

What exactly does that entail for someone who doesn't have a belief in a supreme being?

 

[oyster67]

oyster67,
re: "Choose total surrender to Jesus' lordship and love."

What exactly does that entail for someone who doesn't have a belief in a supreme being?

Romans
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think what you really want to know, and what those "good" people want to know is, can they go to heaven even if they don't believe in God? My question back to you is, why would anyone want to go to God's dwelling place if/when they deny that He even exists in the first place? It seems quite an illogical proposition. It is like they are saying, "I don't believe in God, but I want to crash His party." God does not allow party crashers. How could He consider them good?

The question is easy,

Its not that they want to go to heaven, its that they do not want to be punished in hell

The want their sin, and lack of hell both

 

[notuptome]

There is none that are good by God's standard. There are none that cannot believe in fact all believe. They simply do not want to believe what they know to be true about God. Their desire is to create a god that suits their image of what and who God should be. They are all liars. They know it and God knows it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ahwatukee]

I know many people who are morally good, but fail to believe in God, even though they try to do so. What about them?

Good day LW97,

Regarding people being morally good, I believe that God already answered that question when He said "There is none righteous, no not one. All have sinned and fall short of God's glory."

Everyone who comes into the world is guilty of sin and is already on that broad road and on their way through that wide gate which leads to condemnation. The only way to get off of that road, is too believe in the One who paid the penalty for sin. Those who do not trust in Christ as the One who paid the penalty for their sins, will end up paying the penalty for their own sins. They will simply be getting what they deserve because of their sin against God.