Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[wolfwint]

well, actually it is the point. If what we see in Acts as one was filled with the Holy did 1. speak in tongues or 2. prophesied, and it is seen as a normative, that can be a very strong argument as speaking tongues or prophesying as the initial evidence of one being empowered by the Holy Spirit. You do not have to agree and it could be wrong yet that thought would not be unbiblical. AS the Book of Acts records them all o more than three times and then taught in 1cor chapter 12 to 14.

Unluckily this was taught First in 1901. Before no christian denomination ore Church taught this.
That means before this we're no empowered christians available, according your conclusion. Also I cant find the scripture we're this was taught to anybody. Where 7n 1. Cor. 12 to 14 it was taught that everybody who is filled with the Holy Spirit has the Gift to speak in tongues as sign for it?
So according your conclusion no churchfather was empowered, no Reformation founder was empowered with the Holy Spirit.
But i can find today many empowered in the Charismatic and pentecostal movement whose use their gifts for edify theirselfes, instead to reach the unreached people with the gospel.

 

[CS1]

Unluckily this was taught First in 1901. Before no christian denomination ore Church taught this.
That means before this we're no empowered Christians available, according to your conclusion. Also, I can't find the scripture where this was taught to anybody. Where 7n 1. Cor. 12 to 14 it was taught that everybody who is filled with the Holy Spirit has the Gift to speak in tongues as sign for it?
So according your conclusion no churchfather was empowered, no Reformation founder was empowered with the Holy Spirit.
But i can find today many empowered in the Charismatic and pentecostal movement whose use their gifts for edify theirselfes, instead to reach the unreached people with the gospel.

it really does not matter what you find in your personal experience, it matters what the word of God shows and says. You are not the authority on the infilling of the Holy Spirit. The Book of Acts Is. I never said that no church fathers were empowered or reformed founders. Are you saying that no reformed founders or the church fathers ever spoke in tongues or prophesied? then you have a history lesson to learn sir. Don't put the word in my mouth nor accuse me of something I never said.

The context to my comments you again missed where I said very clearly "You do not have to agree and it could be wrong yet that thought would not be unbiblical. "

 

[Waggles]

no Reformation founder was empowered with the Holy Spirit.

Stop with the lies, please.
Martin Luther was baptized in the Holy Spirit and could pray in tongues.
He was empowered by the Holy Ghost to know the truth of scripture and given wisdom to stand up against the might
of Rome and the papacy.

 

[wolfwint]

You should not take what I wrote out of the context!!! And give something out what i have not said !!
Where Luther claimed ore taught that somebody who is baptised with tthe Spirit has as proofe to speak in tongues? Where he claimed and taught that he spoke in tongues?
Where somebody else in the churchhistory taught that speaking in tongues is the proof that somebody is filled with the Holy Spirit?

 

[wolfwint]

it really does not matter what you find in your personal experience, it matters what the word of God shows and says. You are not the authority on the infilling of the Holy Spirit. The Book of Acts Is. I never said that no church fathers were empowered or reformed founders. Are you saying that no reformed founders or the church fathers ever spoke in tongues or prophesied? then you have a history lesson to learn sir. Don't put the word in my mouth nor accuse me of something I never said.

The context to my comments you again missed where I said very clearly "You do not have to agree and it could be wrong yet that thought would not be unbiblical. "

Can it be that my english is not so good, ore did you not read what i wrote?
You are saying, if i am not wrong, that speaking in tongues is the proof that somebody is baptised/ filled with the Holy Spirit.
I said, if it is so, that nobody in the churchhistory till 1901 was teaching this.
And that if you are right,that no churchfather ore reformator was empowered ore filled with the Holy Spirit, because non of them claimed this for himself ore taught this, that speaking in tongues is the proof to be fillled with the Holy Spirit.
And no it is not alone my personal expieririence. I just cant find this teaching in my bible!!
The pentecostal/ chatismatic doctrine of this is created from man. Paul teaches against this in 1. COR. 12,30.
No other scripture out of acts you can show for to support it.
As I said: You see in acts 2, 8, 10 and 19 an doctrine. Others see in acts 2, 8 , 10 and 19 the coming of the Holy Spirit send from Jesus (2) for all mankind (2,8,10 and 19)
And because this teaching startet in 1901 (maby some years earlier) and is not found in the bible. I have no reason to believe it ore for to see it as biblical truth.

 

[PennEd]

Prior to God operating through me with the Spiritual gift of tongues, I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of tongues. After the incident described I knew the difference between the two.

The purpose of what occurred had nothing to do with me being edified, it was for the edification of the church body.

I did not understand the words pouring forth from me because I was speaking in an unknown tongue that was then interpreted by the pastor. I clearly heard him reciting the interpretation and even noticed him pause in the middle of a sentence. Afterward realizing the pause was the brief moment between the other individual's tongues stopping and mine beginning.

As I said, at the time the effects of God's Spirit pouring into my body left me overwhelmed.

If someone has to understand every aspect of something before they will submit to it they will receive nothing from God.

Heb 11:4
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Speaking in tongues in clearly biblical. And ss Paul states one edifies the individual and one edifies the church body.

1 Cor 12:10
...to another divers kinds of tongues

1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Cor 14:5
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

After making the above statements, Paul goes on to say there are brethren that are equipped with different things for the furtherance of the gospel; if one speaks in an unknown tongue do it and let one interpret; and if there is no interpreter one can speak in tongues to himself and God:

1 Cor 14:26-28
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Here you say "I clearly heard him reciting THE INTERPRETATION" yet all along you say you don't know what you said. So which is it?

 

[Wansvic]

Here you say "I clearly heard him reciting THE INTERPRETATION" yet all along you say you don't know what you said. So which is it?

Yes, that is what I said. You do understand that hearing one speak an interpretation and comprehending exactly what was said are two different things, right?

You can continue to pick apart and try to disparage the experience God graciously gave; however, it does not change the fact that it did happen. And does line up with the Word of God.

Who knows maybe some day God will pour His Spirit into you and you will be blessed to never question its authenticity again.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Stop with the lies, please.
Martin Luther was baptized in the Holy Spirit and could pray in tongues.
He was empowered by the Holy Ghost to know the truth of scripture and given wisdom to stand up against the might
of Rome and the papacy.

Please sight a reference. I would like to see the evidence for this.

 

[PennEd]

Yes, that is what I said. You do understand that hearing one speak an interpretation and comprehending exactly what was said are two different things, right?

You can continue to pick apart and try to disparage the experience God graciously gave; however, it does not change the fact that it did happen. And does line up with the Word of God.

Who knows maybe some day God will pour His Spirit into you and you will be blessed to never question its authenticity again.

I'm trying to discern the facts. I have repeatedly said I'm not sure where I stand on continuation of the gifts. I never even looked into or thought about it much until a couple of months ago.

The more I DO look at it, the more the strident adherents, push me away, and cause me to think that a vast amount of it is untrue.

And no, if someone is interpreting speech into English, I can UNDERSTAND them just fine. So I DON'T understand how you could have heard the interpretation and not be able to relate it, or understand it.

 

[Waggles]

Evidence is in good biographies of Luther and good history studies of Reformation history.

 

[Wansvic]

I'm trying to discern the facts. I have repeatedly said I'm not sure where I stand on continuation of the gifts. I never even looked into or thought about it much until a couple of months ago.

The more I DO look at it, the more the strident adherents, push me away, and cause me to think that a vast amount of it is untrue.

And no, if someone is interpreting speech into English, I can UNDERSTAND them just fine. So I DON'T understand how you could have heard the interpretation and not be able to relate it, or understand it.

As I mentioned, a couple times, the experience was totally unexpected. My body literally vibrated throughout most of the service. Nothing I've experienced in my walk with God before or after this encounter comes anywhere near what happened that day some 15 or so years ago.

We know from the Word that the Spiritual gifts are given for the common good of all.

If God does not chose to use my body to speak in tongues to His church for the rest of my life, I count it a blessing that I was used that day for His purpose.

To me, operating in the Spiritual gifts is not done or ever should be to make one feel "special." And, I don't believe God would flow through someone who had that mindset. It is not about us. It is about being servants in the pursuit of the purposes of the Most High God!

"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines." 1 Cor 12:7-11

 

[PennEd]

As I mentioned, a couple times, the experience was totally unexpected. My body literally vibrated throughout most of the service. Nothing I've experienced in my walk with God before or after this encounter comes anywhere near what happened that day some 15 or so years ago.

We know from the Word that the Spiritual gifts are given for the common good of all.

If God does not chose to use my body to speak in tongues to His church for the rest of my life, I count it a blessing that I was used that day for His purpose.

To me, operating in the Spiritual gifts is not done or ever should be to make one feel "special." And, I don't believe God would flow through someone who had that mindset. It is not about us. It is about being servants in the pursuit of the purposes of the Most High God!

"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines." 1 Cor 12:7-11

But again, we are told to test the spirits. You are basing your whole experience upon how you felt, instead of what was said.

Maybe it WAS from the Lord. But how do WE know that beyond how YOU felt in that moment? This is why it is so vital to know what was said.

And you haven't explained how you heard the interpretation in English, yet can't understand or relate it to us.

 

[CS1]

But again, we are told to test the spirits. You are basing your whole experience upon how you felt, instead of what was said.

Maybe it WAS from the Lord. But how do WE know that beyond how YOU felt in that moment? This is why it is so vital to know what was said.

And you haven't explained how you heard the interpretation in English, yet can't understand or relate it to us.

I must say I am enjoying your dialog with Wansvic. You two should be modeled. Good Job Brothers.

 

[CS1]

Can it be that my english is not so good, ore did you not read what i wrote?
You are saying, if i am not wrong, that speaking in tongues is the proof that somebody is baptised/ filled with the Holy Spirit.
I said, if it is so, that nobody in the churchhistory till 1901 was teaching this.
And that if you are right,that no churchfather ore reformator was empowered ore filled with the Holy Spirit, because non of them claimed this for himself ore taught this, that speaking in tongues is the proof to be fillled with the Holy Spirit.
And no it is not alone my personal expieririence. I just cant find this teaching in my bible!!
The pentecostal/ chatismatic doctrine of this is created from man. Paul teaches against this in 1. COR. 12,30.
No other scripture out of acts you can show for to support it.
As I said: You see in acts 2, 8, 10 and 19 an doctrine. Others see in acts 2, 8 , 10 and 19 the coming of the Holy Spirit send from Jesus (2) for all mankind (2,8,10 and 19)
And because this teaching startet in 1901 (maby some years earlier) and is not found in the bible. I have no reason to believe it ore for to see it as biblical truth.

Can it be that my english is not so good, ore did you not read what i wrote?
You are saying, if i am not wrong, that speaking in tongues is the proof that somebody is baptised/ filled with the Holy Spirit.
I said, if it is so, that nobody in the churchhistory till 1901 was teaching this.
And that if you are right,that no churchfather ore reformator was empowered ore filled with the Holy Spirit, because non of them claimed this for himself ore taught this, that speaking in tongues is the proof to be fillled with the Holy Spirit.
And no it is not alone my personal expieririence. I just cant find this teaching in my bible!!
The pentecostal/ chatismatic doctrine of this is created from man. Paul teaches against this in 1. COR. 12,30.
No other scripture out of acts you can show for to support it.
As I said: You see in acts 2, 8, 10 and 19 an doctrine. Others see in acts 2, 8 , 10 and 19 the coming of the Holy Spirit send from Jesus (2) for all mankind (2,8,10 and 19)
And because this teaching startet in 1901 (maby some years earlier) and is not found in the bible. I have no reason to believe it ore for to see it as biblical truth.

You said:

"So according to your conclusion no churchfather was empowered, no Reformation founder was empowered with the Holy Spirit."

So, please it is not your English nor is it that I did not read what you said. again I did not conclude no such thing.
and yet again you did not see where I said the teaching could be wrong. You are very dishonest as to what I have said.

I have a few questions for you. If you choose to answer.

1. are you suggesting that Doctrine only comes from the reformed Founders and church fathers?
2. are the doctrines of the reformed and church fathers authoritative
3. If they are where did they get them from?
4. do we have the ability today to verify church fathers doctrine and the reformed founders?

 

[Absolutely]

You should not take what I wrote out of the context!!! And give something out what i have not said !!
Where Luther claimed ore taught that somebody who is baptised with tthe Spirit has as proofe to speak in tongues? Where he claimed and taught that he spoke in tongues?
Where somebody else in the churchhistory taught that speaking in tongues is the proof that somebody is filled with the Holy Spirit?

Lord visit this man in power.
Come upon him in power and baptise him in your mighty Holy Spirit.
Let him have the same experience as millions have . The mighty river of God to melt his heart and give life,anointing,power and revelation like Paul.
Stir up his heart,and bind off of him all resistance. Give him every good gift. The promised blessing.

 

[Wansvic]

But again, we are told to test the spirits. You are basing your whole experience upon how you felt, instead of what was said.

Maybe it WAS from the Lord. But how do WE know that beyond how YOU felt in that moment? This is why it is so vital to know what was said.

And you haven't explained how you heard the interpretation in English, yet can't understand or relate it to us.

I heard the pastor speaking the words to the congregation but was distracted by the shaking of my body produced by the infusion of the Spirit.
Example: try focusing on someones precise words while your body is assaulted by prolonged shaking and in absolute wonder at what just occurred.
I have nothing to add but that I was in church, the Lord filled me, and my "cup" began running over in the form of a message that was for the edification of the church. As well as, confirmation of the Spiritual gift for me personally.

 

[Absolutely]

How, beyond some feeling, and somebody saying they understood you, do you even know you said ANYTHING, or that it was from the Lord? Why not just follow what Paul is saying here in 1 Corinthians 14?
Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?

7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes?

8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?

9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.

11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me.

12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying?

17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.

21 In the Law it is written: “With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.

23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all,

25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

"18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue"

You unwittingly have shown Paul to be clarifying tongues when in private prayer vs tongues when they are in the assembly.
No brainer that others will not know what is being spoken.

Unbelivers would call it babbel. Or that they were demonic or drunk.
It even says prophecy is what "rings their bell" because it is understood.
Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[PennEd]

"18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue"

You unwittingly have shown Paul to be clarifying tongues when in private prayer vs tongues when they are in the assembly.
No brainer that others will not know what is being spoken.

Unbelivers would call it babbel. Or that they were demonic or drunk.
It even says prophecy is what "rings their bell" because it is understood.
Thanks for clarifying that.

You continue to assume I don't believe the Lord can allow someone to speak in a different tongue. You won't be able to find a post of mine that says that.

This is the gift the Holy Spirit has given ME:
1 Corinthians 10:10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another DISCERNING BETWEEN SPIRITS, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

1 John 4:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Love for God and One Another
4 Beloved, do NOT believe every spirit, BUT TEST THE SPIRITS, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Why do you question this gift given to me from the Holy Spirit?

SOME have even said elsewhere that to even question a gift is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. See how that works?

 

[Absolutely]

Look Kelby this is not the point. You interprete acts 10 as proof that every christian is speaking in tongues by getting the Holy Spirit and create a teaching from that event.
I interprete the text as it is written. An proof that the Holy Spirit is as well given the gentiles as it was given to the jews. A thing which was unthinkable till this moment for the jews. And Peter had a lot of problems this to believe, even latér when he visited Paul in galatia.

Take a closer look;
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

They got the baptism in the Holy Ghost prior to conversion.
The cessationist erroneously proclaims salvation is all there is,as far as receiving the Holy Spirit

 

[Absolutely]

You continue to assume I don't believe the Lord can allow someone to speak in a different tongue. You won't be able to find a post of mine that says that.

This is the gift the Holy Spirit has given ME:
1 Corinthians 10:10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another DISCERNING BETWEEN SPIRITS, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

1 John 4:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Love for God and One Another
4 Beloved, do NOT believe every spirit, BUT TEST THE SPIRITS, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Why do you question this gift given to me from the Holy Spirit?

SOME have even said elsewhere that to even question a gift is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. See how that works?

"This is the gift the Holy Spirit has given ME:
1 Corinthians 10:10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another DISCERNING BETWEEN SPIRITS"

you sure blew it concerning wigglesworth.
One of the few " bulletproof" men of God.

you dont know what you are talking about.
You even put a red x on my post about my missionary friend seeing multiple infillings in a campaign in Germany.

you cant have it both ways,especially since you counsel with Hinns rejected nephew who slanders and hates on his uncle from a melicious wounded spirit.
He seeks to destroy a man of God,and you promote it.

discerning spirits ?
You an expert?
Think about it. We Have believers trashing other believers,claiming the Holy Ghost is behind it.