This is your view. But i cant find this teaching anywhere in the bible ore in churchhistory till 1901 with the first person Agnes Ozman.
Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14
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In 1. Cor. 12,30 Paul clearify that not all believers will get the gift of speaking in tongues. This would exclude believers to get the Holy Spirit.
In the comparing with prophecie speaking in tongues is clear made less worth. ( i miss the wrong word)
The pentecostal/ charismatic teaching make speaking on tongues zo the most important gift. In Opposit what Paul teaches.
That would be an obvious private interpretation of scripture. Believers pray in the Holy Spirit without tongues and believers pray fervently without tongues. Prayer for believers is a time of fellowship with the Lord. Prayer is a very special time for those worship the Lord.
As you would say of others your understanding of 1 Cor 14:14-15 is classic eisegesis.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It speaks directly to the heart of the matter. Do you have anything of substance to offer?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It would seem the Jude reference in the previous verse 19 is speaking of those sensual ones who require a sign to confirm something.
In order to build our selves up in the faith we must exercise it by making our request known called praying in the Spirit as it leads us. .
The Psalms are a good example of praying in the Holy faith of God, as David by the faith of Christ was moved to do so. .
The reference in 1 Corinthians 14 was altered the word unknown was added. That portion is still under the idea of two people understanding each other .Like at Pentecost when each heard the other in their own language.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Tongues would first have to be defined as to what it is and what was the purpose for God changing the manner from Hebrew to all the languages of the world ?
The doctrine did not fall from the thin air one day. It would seem those who require a sign before they believe have no roots for their idea .It is like they saw a verse and built a new oral tradition of men . Which is this case clearly makes the word of God without effect.
The sign cannot confirm unbelief and belief at the same time. It would be like a sign that said "Chicago 250 mile ahead thanks for visiting you have just left the Chicago city limits".
The Spirit is always involved in bringing prophecy .No matter which "manner" to includes tongues as one of the many manners that God did bring new revelations when the possibility to add was still available..
Prophecy is not of men . And the sign confirms unbelief to begin with. Back to the foundation of the doctrine. Isaiah 28 Once the sign is confirmed as to what it represent then the rest of the doctrine will fall into place. Ignore the foundation then a parson might as well ignore the outcome.
That is the most ridiculous ignorance of context I have seen all year. What is Paul addressing for the entire first section of 1 Corinthians 14? Speaking in tongues. He doesn't completely change subjects for two verses.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
you choose to be a pig
that was on purpose. you have said more than you know and illustrated why you call yourself loco and dirtman
clean up your own mess. it's good to leave that post because it shows what really is going on with you
I've been thinking you have a wrong perception of what Paul is addressing in 1 Cor 14. Now it is clear you cannot understand. You cannot understand that 1 Cor 14 is corrective and not prescriptive. Verse 20 be not children in understanding.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
sorry
that is another of your scripture mashups that, to use your own expression, leaves the reader 'in limbo'
I knew the following experience came directly from God due to Paul's insight about Spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians:
A few years back God imparted the Spiritual gift of tongues upon me that was interpreted by another for edification of the church body. I had not been seeking the gift, however, while praising God in the worship service He decided to flow through me and speak a message to the congregation.
As I was praising God I could feel His presence stronger than in times past; so strong in fact, I sensed something was definitely different but had no idea what was going on. As I praised the Lord someone to my left began to speak in tongues. I remember thinking Lord if that is what you wanted me to do I would have done that. Immediately the individual stopped speaking. I felt what can only be described as an internal explosion; a feeling of complete fullness that my body could not contain. To my utter dismay the fullness began pouring out in the form of tongues. There I was, normally the shy, quiet one, loudly proclaiming half of a message that was afterward interpreted for God’s children. I say half, because the interpretation began, and part way through, the message continued after a short pause. The proclaimed message began with the other individual and was picked up and concluded through me.
On the drive home I could not help re-living the incident over, and over in my mind. I was amazed at what had occurred. I questioned the Lord about the explosive feeling. His answer was, “I consumed the sacrifice.” I was in awe. I realized that God would only use my vocal cords to speak to His people if I was willing for Him to do so.
A few years back God imparted the Spiritual gift of tongues upon me that was interpreted by another for edification of the church body. I had not been seeking the gift, however, while praising God in the worship service He decided to flow through me and speak a message to the congregation.
As I was praising God I could feel His presence stronger than in times past; so strong in fact, I sensed something was definitely different but had no idea what was going on. As I praised the Lord someone to my left began to speak in tongues. I remember thinking Lord if that is what you wanted me to do I would have done that. Immediately the individual stopped speaking. I felt what can only be described as an internal explosion; a feeling of complete fullness that my body could not contain. To my utter dismay the fullness began pouring out in the form of tongues. There I was, normally the shy, quiet one, loudly proclaiming half of a message that was afterward interpreted for God’s children. I say half, because the interpretation began, and part way through, the message continued after a short pause. The proclaimed message began with the other individual and was picked up and concluded through me.
On the drive home I could not help re-living the incident over, and over in my mind. I was amazed at what had occurred. I questioned the Lord about the explosive feeling. His answer was, “I consumed the sacrifice.” I was in awe. I realized that God would only use my vocal cords to speak to His people if I was willing for Him to do so.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
uh huh. it is
but Jesus said He had to return to the Father for the Holy Spirit to descend
but the Holy Spirit does not save people. the blood of Christ shed for our sins is the only way to God.
no one receives the Holy Spirit without first accepting Christ and understanding what He did for us
they did not receive the indwelling Spirit of God, until the day of Pentecost AFTER Jesus ascended
there is such a thing as protocol in scripture and there is not evidence that the disciples received the
Holy Spirit at that time
the evidence of them receiving the Holy Spirit is on the day of Pentecost
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
I think you are leaving out the most important part of this story.
Tell us what the message was to your congregation, that you spoke in tongues, as interpreted by someone else.
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Hevosmies358
Guest
Broski could you PM me?
If not, I have been dying to tell you this so I will say it here: I want to apologize to you. I apologize! I completely misunderstood and misinterpreted the situation and thought you were going at me personally, I noticed you said the same thing to another user, therefore you were just doing your moderation duties. Im sorry and I learned from that experience to not get so emotional and riled up. (atleast im trying to
). Sorry bro! We believe a lot of the same things. We cool?
Jesus ascended to sprinkle His blood on the alter in heaven to complete the atonement. Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into the disciples in the upper room. Jesus forbid them to touch Him at the open tomb but He showed them His hands and side that same day in the evening.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Limbo would be more like. What does the sign confirm. Belief or unbelief?
Its really not that difficult if you would compare the spiritual understanding to the same or faith to faith. Why some refuse to mix faith in what we see or hear can make a difference on the outcome. . I would think we should be careful on how we say we hear. Its there that the father of lies can get his foot in the door.
Find out what the sign confirms by first looking to the foundation of the doctrine and then look to where that law is added and more information to make certain the sign confirms what the word of God declares?
I will add a little color as it seems some get those who; "yet for all that (God rebuking them in unbelief) mixed with those who do have faith..
They as it seems still make the word of God to no effect by their oral tradition of men . Orange can be the traditions of men as oral . Green the tradition of God having to do with scripture or prophecy after the manner of tongues. One of the many manners God did bring prophecy.
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Isaiash 28:11-13
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians14: 21-22
1 Cor 14: 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
How does what you claim as an experience align with what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 14?
For the cause of Christ
Roger